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Author Topic: distributed off-site data storage paid for in bitcoin?  (Read 2879 times)
MoonShadow
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December 08, 2010, 08:54:18 PM
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There exists a couple of different p2p distributed data storage systems without central controls, but in nearly all cases they use some kind of tis-for-tat system of limiting the free rider problem.  All of which have limited success in that endeavor.  Centralized off-site backup sites also exist, and some that use the "cloud", but they are all dependent upon a centralized server model.  Any ideas from the forum minds about how a decentralized p2p distributed data storage system could be implimented that uses bitcoin payments to compensate those who contribute disk space and bandwidth to the share, and still be anonymous and equitible?

As I see it, such a system would have to have a number of qualities, at a minimum...

1)  Mutiple sets of the same data,

2) stored across numerous nodes

3) using system-wide encryption (mostly to protect the nodes from the liability of objectionable content)

4) with a payment system that can use market based pricing to charge small amounts for uploading, storage term period, and downloading separately.  (someone using the system for critical backup is unlikely to ever download, but would desire to have a higher number of copies on the system; while someone using the system to distribute cladestine content will upload once and download perhaps numerous times, but may not desire to have so many copies for data protection)

I imagine it something like paid bittorrent seeding, but this isn't my thing.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 08, 2010, 08:55:51 PM
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Shouldn't this be in the bitcoin discussion forum.

MoonShadow
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December 08, 2010, 08:56:45 PM
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Shouldn't this be in the bitcoin discussion forum.

I would say no, since it isn't about bitcoin directly.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 09, 2010, 01:03:02 AM
 #4

Would a normal CDN network work just use lots of peoples home computers for this.
Or just pay to seed using a torrent client maybe someone could code one that has bitcoin stats running directly from it

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MoonShadow
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December 09, 2010, 01:21:40 AM
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Would a normal CDN network work just use lots of peoples home computers for this.
Or just pay to seed using a torrent client maybe someone could code one that has bitcoin stats running directly from it

Are there any truly p2p content delivery networks?  All those that I am aware of require a central server for control.  I'm thinking along the lines of a distributed 'data haven' that has no single point of failure.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 09, 2010, 01:26:57 AM
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Perhaps some kind of control protocol overlay that uses bittorrent as it's transport mech, with tracking internal to the control network.  Perhaps this could be a TOR hidden service with the bittorrent traffic external, I'm  just thinking out loud.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 09, 2010, 01:27:06 AM
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Do you know Tahoe-LAFS project (http://tahoe-lafs.org)? I think it is project what you are talking about. It is decentralized storage (SPOF still here, but AFAIK removing of them is in progress) with strong security model. There are also plans for accounting, but nobody done it yet. By the way, they are very progressive - they already accepts Bitcoins Smiley.

I'm member of it's volunteergrid for a while and must say it works for me. Currently using around 40GB of cloud storage mapped as Windows drive.

Edit: SPOF is 'introducer' - nodes are asking them for another peers in grid. It does not manage any access rights and it is not a data hub; file transfers go directly between nodes, it is real p2p. Currently there can be many introducers in one grid, so this is not _real_ SPOF.

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December 09, 2010, 01:27:35 AM
 #8

Freenet but because its unmeasurable its untraceable.

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MoonShadow
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December 09, 2010, 01:34:27 AM
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Do you know Tahoe-LAFS project

No, this is awesome, but how does one pay for the service?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
MoonShadow
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December 09, 2010, 01:34:56 AM
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Freenet but because its unmeasurable its untraceable.

I've tried freenet before, I'm not a fan.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 09, 2010, 01:43:16 AM
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Do you know Tahoe-LAFS project

No, this is awesome, but how does one pay for the service?

Infrastructure for accounting (and payments) is available, but nobody done this yet. Volunteergrid working on members honesty, that nobody store more than share (* share ratio).
Btw Zooko (project coordinator) like an idea to use bitcoins for storage payments. I think TahoeLAFS together with Bitcoin would be amazing cloud storage solution. Maybe we will find somebody interested in accounting implementation here...

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December 09, 2010, 02:13:53 AM
 #12

I'm willing to seed wallets at 1 bitcoin a month. for more then one IP ill make a deal at 2bitcoins a month 3 IPs per wallet file.
Almost any other data at 100 MB for 1 bitcoin a month x IP.
Prices will change to respond to the market or as demand increases/decreases.

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RHorning
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December 10, 2010, 03:18:34 PM
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Freenet but because its unmeasurable its untraceable.

I've tried freenet before, I'm not a fan.

I have several complaints about freenet, and one of my early complaints was the lack of documentation of the protocol.  This has led to an incredibly inefficient design in the core network where the throughput of the data is so slow that it reminds me more of the days of dial-up modem access and other sorts of technical problems with slow network access.  Also, if you happen to have a high speed network connection, I found that the Freenet node tended to get dumped upon by almost everybody on the network.

Of course my experience was several years ago when Freenet was much less established, but then again I don't think much has changed in that regard either.

There are some interesting ideas put into packet distribution and plausible deniability.  If you want to maintain anonymity transmitting data over the internet, the base concept of Freenet is certainly something to strongly look at for ideas.  The overhead created by trying to make it anonymous is rather costly, however.

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December 11, 2010, 04:50:05 AM
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Apparently Tahoe-LAFS (1.6.1 so far) works fully within I2P: http://duck.i2p.tin0.de/tahoe-lafs/
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December 13, 2010, 12:24:33 PM
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I just setup Tahoe-LAFS on my computer.  Now I am excited to use bitcoin with it somehow.  What should I do?

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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December 13, 2010, 12:28:57 PM
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I just setup Tahoe-LAFS on my computer.  Now I am excited to use bitcoin with it somehow.  What should I do?

How difficult was it to setup?
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December 13, 2010, 09:45:41 PM
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I just setup Tahoe-LAFS on my computer.  Now I am excited to use bitcoin with it somehow.  What should I do?

How difficult was it to setup?


See http://tahoe-lafs.org/source/tahoe-lafs/trunk/docs/quickstart.html and http://tahoe-lafs.org/source/tahoe-lafs/trunk/docs/running.html and http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/wiki/TestGrid for directions to connect to public test grid.  Here is what I had to do on my Ubuntu machine:

  • sudo apt-get install tahoe-lafs
  • tahoe create-client
  • vim ~/.tahoe/tahoe.cfg
  • edit the following lines into its tahoe.cfg file:
    Quote
    nickname = Choose Another nickname than "None"
    introducer.furl = pb://tin57bdenwkigkujmh6rwgztcoh7ya7t@pubgrid.tahoe-lafs.org:50528/introducer
    helper.furl = pb://sp26qyqclbwjv6lgqdxik5lfdlxrkpnz@skulls.nodes.soultcer.com:44519/io4e5utfosaxibnm7nk6viqjj6i4yd2g
    stats_gatherer.furl = pb://cmmth6b3lsj2orir3u5yqwwae7xfmxxq@pubgrid.tahoe-lafs.org:51424/jdoyd3kke4zqkmmvlhveb57xsw623kh5
  • tahoe start

And that's it!
To view public grid files, go to: http://127.0.0.1:3456/uri/URI:DIR2:ctmtx2awdo4xt77x5xxaz6nyxm:n5t546ddvd6xlv4v6se6sjympbdbvo7orwizuzl42urm73sxazqa/
To view your personal gateway, go to: http://127.0.0.1:3456/
then click "Create Directory" to get started uploading files! Smiley

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
MoonShadow
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December 13, 2010, 10:01:28 PM
 #18

Is there any way to get a tahoe instance set up on a thumbdrive?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 13, 2010, 10:55:36 PM
 #19

*is a windows victim.
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December 14, 2010, 05:17:43 PM
 #20

*is a windows victim.

...works also on Windows.

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