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Author Topic: Are XRP actually superior to Bitcoins? Should BTC be abandoned in favor of XRP?  (Read 747 times)
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May 25, 2013, 10:06:31 AM
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TL;DR: XRP have increased [edit]shorter[/edit] transaction times and use less ressources. Why still use Bitcoin when we have XRP?

I'm not trying to troll, it's a serious question.

I have been very critical about XRP before, but my main point of criticism has always been Opencoin's position as the "XRP central bank", as they still hold about 99% of all XRP in their possession. I tried to get more information about XRP, and someone directed me to this link: https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus. If I understand correctly, XRP solve at least two major problems of Bitcoin: Transaction time is much faster, and they require no mining, which means that less energy and hardware is used to secure transactions with the Consensus system. I assume there is also no need to store the blockchain on the hard drives of thousands of users. Sounds pretty good to me?

So for the sake of argument, let's assume that Opencoin is now and will always be an altruistic and trustworthy entity that will never under any circumstances abuse their position, and that they will indeed distribute the XRP in a manner that would be deemed "fair" by the majority of users, and that they will not secretly hold on to the majority of the supply.

In this case, wouldn't it be preferable to abandon BTC and start using XRP instead? What are the disadvantages of the consensus system over the proof-of-work system? Are XRP (or at least a similar system) the future of cryptocurrencies? Will they make Bitcoins become obsolete?

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May 25, 2013, 10:30:36 AM
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ripples are a get rich quick project , that benefits only its creators. Eventually it will collapse like all ponzi schemes.
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May 25, 2013, 11:09:26 AM
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As far as I understood it all the most important difference between XRP and BTC is that you actually own any BTC tied to an address that's yours, while on XRP all you got is an IOU that says the person you got it from promises to cash it out if you want. The XRP system is largely built on the trust that the people you deal with will fulfill their debt. Tradfortress just showed recently how easy that system is to abuse.

Also while they may have better transaction times with XRP and need less energy for handling transactions (which is debatable those entities doing the transaction verification process must do at least some computing) it's also more a centralized than a decentralized system. Meaning you have a single point of failure (or at least VERY little in comparison to BTC), which makes a DoS attack on XRP much easier than on BTC.

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May 25, 2013, 11:39:48 AM
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As far as I understood it all the most important difference between XRP and BTC is that you actually own any BTC tied to an address that's yours, while on XRP all you got is an IOU that says the person you got it from promises to cash it out if you want. The XRP system is largely built on the trust that the people you deal with will fulfill their debt. Tradfortress just showed recently how easy that system is to abuse.

Also while they may have better transaction times with XRP and need less energy for handling transactions (which is debatable those entities doing the transaction verification process must do at least some computing) it's also more a centralized than a decentralized system. Meaning you have a single point of failure (or at least VERY little in comparison to BTC), which makes a DoS attack on XRP much easier than on BTC.

In the Ripple system you own XRP just like you own BTC within the bitcoin system. Any other currencies on Ripple are just debt currencies, so a BTC or a USD on Ripple just means somebody owes you a BTC or USD, but any XRP in your account are actually yours.

That being said, BTC has been around longer and the market is much bigger (seems funny to say that, since Bitcoins are still so young), so it is more established. The superiority of bitcoins as a currency can be found by considering that XRP was initially created with 100 billion units, the founders still hold most of it and they can give it away anytime they want. The Ripple system is also set up so that the amounts of XRP needed to use the system can be lowered, indeed they have already lowered the account reserve minimum from like 300 to 100 XRP, which causes inflation by decreasing the demand for XRP.

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May 25, 2013, 11:42:17 AM
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My understanding of ripple is limited.

But one thing that has bugged me about ripple is the centralised aspect of it. Having one single entity, make it easy for a single point attack. I also don't expect ripple to be trustworthy even if the founders have the best intentions. Take a look at governments, they are build on the idea of being altruistic and making their descision based on the view of the majority. But the contrary is true. Corruption isn't far away when money is involved. We really aren't living in a perfect.
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May 25, 2013, 11:55:38 AM
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Have a look here:
http://ripplescam.org/
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May 25, 2013, 12:12:32 PM
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Quote
XRP have increased transaction times and use less ressources. Why still use Bitcoin when we have XRP?
Freedom or speed? I prefer freedom.

I use have XRPs, but I prefer Bitcoin.

About resources usage: How often do you use public transportation? Travelling by car uses more energy than mining with CPU. Wink

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May 25, 2013, 12:15:49 PM
 #8

Have a look here:
*Link removed*

Yes, let's all look at the libelous paid propaganda posted by an anonymous sockpuppet against a technology that has been proven to succeed already years ago and continue to confuse the issues between the actions of OpenCoin Inc and the Ripple project itself.

This failing effort of teenagers against an awesome technology they don't understand sure is entertaining to watch.

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May 25, 2013, 12:37:40 PM
 #9

TL;DR: XRP have increased transaction times and use less ressources. Why still use Bitcoin when we have XRP?

I'm not trying to troll, it's a serious question.

I have been very critical about XRP before, but my main point of criticism has always been Opencoin's position as the "XRP central bank", as they still hold about 99% of all XRP in their possession. I tried to get more information about XRP, and someone directed me to this link: https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus. If I understand correctly, XRP solve at least two major problems of Bitcoin: Transaction time is much faster, and they require no mining, which means that less energy and hardware is used to secure transactions with the Consensus system. I assume there is also no need to store the blockchain on the hard drives of thousands of users. Sounds pretty good to me?

So for the sake of argument, let's assume that Opencoin is now and will always be an altruistic and trustworthy entity that will never under any circumstances abuse their position, and that they will indeed distribute the XRP in a manner that would be deemed "fair" by the majority of users, and that they will not secretly hold on to the majority of the supply.

In this case, wouldn't it be preferable to abandon BTC and start using XRP instead? What are the disadvantages of the consensus system over the proof-of-work system? Are XRP (or at least a similar system) the future of cryptocurrencies? Will they make Bitcoins become obsolete?


I have tried Ripple, it is OK I guess. I am, and never will be comfortable with the XRP currency since it was all just released to opencoin and it is there choice what to do with them. You can tell me they are trustworthy all you want, I would never spend money on XRP's. Bitcoin may take a little longer than expected sometimes, but big deal. I have to send my bill payments like 3 or 4 days earlier than due because the regular banking system takes forever sometimes. I also don't really care about using a debt based system, I don't want people owing me anything .

Taking away the ability to mine your crytocurrency makes is less fun as well.  Cheesy
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May 25, 2013, 02:33:44 PM
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But one thing that has bugged me about ripple is the centralised aspect of it. Having one single entity, make it easy for a single point attack. I also don't expect ripple to be trustworthy even if the founders have the best intentions. Take a look at governments, they are build on the idea of being altruistic and making their descision based on the view of the majority. But the contrary is true. Corruption isn't far away when money is involved. We really aren't living in a perfect.


The centralized aspect will become less of a problem in the future. The idea is that there will be many nodes supporting the network, and as OpenCoin gives/sells away their holdings of XRP they will have less and less power.

One thing that has not been mentioned is that bitcoin is much more anonymous than Ripple. Take a look at https://ripple.com/graph/#rGsLivkDjTZHFQ8oV2h81uTcbTpgjEaEY7, you can see all the activity of anybody on the network. Because of the way Ripple works, it is much harder to do things anonymously.

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May 25, 2013, 02:45:35 PM
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don't be fooled by Ripple.  buy Bitcoin.
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May 25, 2013, 02:49:40 PM
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XRPs are for credit, Bitcoin is currency. They both are useful and they are both good.

vires en numeris
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May 25, 2013, 05:44:51 PM
 #13

There is a very interesting interview in a radio show with one of the guys of Ripple that may give some idea of how they try to explain the Ripple concept and the product they are selling.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/50482657399/lets-talk-bitcoin-episode-007-ripple-the

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May 25, 2013, 06:08:29 PM
 #14

I get the concept of using credit to speed things up. It's the distribution model of the ripples (random magic gifting and founder hoarding?) that I find disturbing..
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