- P1 successful - P2 relocating operation -

[ernst.von.siemens]

> 6 months ago we have started a mining investment (10 000€) in an undisclosed location.
> we've taken advantage of still medium to high hardware prices to liquidate our assets and realize a net profit of 49% of the invested capital which puts us at a realized equity level of 4 900€ over 6 months
> we've managed to gather additional capital which puts us at 100 000€

Our plan is to relocate to the United States in January of 2018, in a determined state with very low electricity (0.025$ / KWh | max. 250 KWh / sqft of property) and convenient property lease rates to deploy the investment.

On top of the operational cost advantages, the U.S poses benefits from a primary and secondary computer hardware markets point of view which are bigger and much more developed than our current location. This is a obviously an big improvement to our business cycles of acquisition and liquidation of assets.  

The biggest problem that we face is the relocation of our human resource capital to the U.S.
a.) executive in charge of business operations - acquisition, liquidation, accounting and hardware supervision 8 hrs. / day
b.) electrical engineer in charge of implementation - electrical maintenance, equipment planning on rigs/racks, safety procedures and hardware supervision 8 hrs. / day
c.) electronics engineer in charge of exploitation - hardware & software setup, maintenance/repair of broken equipment (very good at it), overclocking/bios flashing responsible (if it applies) and hardware supervision 8 hrs. / day

I see two possible visa scenarios:

I.
- E-2 investor visa for a.). Able to pass all requirements, however the E-2 visa will require the operation to be under close supervision of the government from a rules & regulations point of view and of course under the IRS' scope for tax purposes. Also, it will be required to have employees on the payroll and the minimum wage is way too high... sitting at 11$ / hr. Can't be pissing all that profit away like that.
- H1-B worker visas for the engineers, working at the newly established legitimate business operation.

II.
- H1-B worker visas for everybody. Each of the three human resources have to find suitable 8 hrs. / day jobs which will leave them with 8 hrs. / day to devote to the mining operation and 8 hrs. / day for sleep. In order for the mine to be 24/24 monitored, each one should find jobs that lace with the other schedules. E.G:
a.) works from 00:00 to 08:00 at legitimate H1-B job then proceeds to work on the mining operation from 08:00 to 16:00 and sleeps from 16:00 to 00:00
b.) works from 08:00 to 16:00 at legitimate H1-B job then proceeds to work on the mining operation from 16:00 to 00:00 and sleeps from 00:00 to 08:00
c.) works from 16:00 to 00:00 at legitimate H1-B job then proceeds to work on the mining operation from 00:00 to 08:00 and sleeps from 08:00 to 16:00

I. could bankrupt the venture due to the extra costs but be legitimate from all points of view.
II. could be liable for discovered by the IRS/Immigration bureau and have all our assets seized and lose all our visas and get our asses booted back to our country of origin for life but at least have a very good chance at making the venture profitable and turn it legitimate in 6 months to a year, once the revenue stream is established and additional operational costs can be incurred.

What do you guys think?
Any other ideas?

[alh]

Is there any particular reason you can't hire American citizens to do the work you want?

[ernst.von.siemens]

Is there any particular reason you can't hire American citizens to do the work you want?

Yes, we're three equal partners and we don't take a "salary" for the work that we put into the mining operation.
We're only interested in growing the equity month over month to become the most performing operation out there.  

The specialization of our workforce is very high. On top of it, it doesn't cost anything since everybody is an equal partner.

Hiring one or more U.S citizens would mean that we would pay at least 11$ / hr. (min. 35 hours / week) which would hemorrhage the profit by 1540$ or 3080$ / month. For practically less specialization that we actually have at our disposal.

 

[fanatic26]

If you are coming to America and refuse to hire American workers you should just turn right around and leave.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

II. could be liable for discovered by the IRS/Immigration bureau and have all our assets seized and lose all our visas and get our asses booted back to our country of origin for life but at least have a very good chance at making the venture profitable and turn it legitimate in 6 months to a year, once the revenue stream is established and additional operational costs can be incurred.

Good. Sleaze bags like you will deserve it. Saying you want to run a business in the US and yet specifically avoid hiring native workers then go on to say that apparently you are planning on NOT registering the business and paying taxes shows you to be very bottom of the barrel scum.

Be assured that if given the chance all reputable folks here will be very happy to report you to the authorities.

Start out legit by registering as a business and hire local folks.

[alh]

You might want to make clear what it is that you are seeking. It sounds like you are really looking for "minority partners" and not any employees. Those folks have to take a risk that they will not realize any short term profit, and have to trust that sometime in the future they will be rewarded for their efforts. This is actually a high risk venture for both your new "partners" and you as well. You have risk in hoping that you American based "partners" don't take off (i.e. abscond) with the hardware. Any "corner cutting" in terms of permits and government regulations could put you at a severe disadvantage in terms of seeking any legal remedies if your "minority partners" prove to be untrustworthy.

I am also surprised that you think you can save any money by attempting to use H1B Visa holders. Most of the H1B folks I know are pretty well paid, and your concern about $11/hr would be way below what they are earning now.

Perhaps you are thinking that any "minimum wage" rules only apply to American citizens? As far as I know, that's entirely untrue, even in the State of Washington. Besides the skill you are seeking in general will pay way more than $11/hour regardless of work permits and citizenship.

I expect you will need to re-think your plans some.

[ernst.von.siemens]

If you are coming to America and refuse to hire American workers you should just turn right around and leave.

All right, I get where you're coming from.
The nationalism is strong in you, sorry for having offended you.

[ernst.von.siemens]

II. could be liable for discovered by the IRS/Immigration bureau and have all our assets seized and lose all our visas and get our asses booted back to our country of origin for life but at least have a very good chance at making the venture profitable and turn it legitimate in 6 months to a year, once the revenue stream is established and additional operational costs can be incurred.

Good. Sleaze bags like you will deserve it. Saying you want to run a business in the US and yet specifically avoid hiring native workers then go on to say that apparently you are planning on NOT registering the business and paying taxes shows you to be very bottom of the barrel scum.

Be assured that if given the chance all reputable folks here will be very happy to report you to the authorities.

Start out legit by registering as a business and hire local folks.

Under no circumstances shall there be under-reporting or not reporting revenue with the IRS and if it shall be the case that a business will have to be set up, most definitely there will be legitimate employees hired for the various positions that have to be filled out.

Please don't think that I'm discriminatory against U.S citizens specifically, I am trying to avoid hiring altogether.

Thank you for your advice, I will keep it in mind!

[ernst.von.siemens]

You might want to make clear what it is that you are seeking. It sounds like you are really looking for "minority partners" and not any employees. Those folks have to take a risk that they will not realize any short term profit, and have to trust that sometime in the future they will be rewarded for their efforts. This is actually a high risk venture for both your new "partners" and you as well. You have risk in hoping that you American based "partners" don't take off (i.e. abscond) with the hardware. Any "corner cutting" in terms of permits and government regulations could put you at a severe disadvantage in terms of seeking any legal remedies if your "minority partners" prove to be untrustworthy.

I am also surprised that you think you can save any money by attempting to use H1B Visa holders. Most of the H1B folks I know are pretty well paid, and your concern about $11/hr would be way below what they are earning now.

Perhaps you are thinking that any "minimum wage" rules only apply to American citizens? As far as I know, that's entirely untrue, even in the State of Washington. Besides the skill you are seeking in general will pay way more than $11/hour regardless of work permits and citizenship.

I expect you will need to re-think your plans some.

Alh,

Thank you very much for pointing at the holes in our plan.
The constructive criticism is very much appreciated!

It is true indeed, that we are trying to cut costs by avoiding to hire and offer minority partnerships instead.
This is definitely a high-risk venture which we are all comfortable to undertake. In terms of "corner cutting" with permits and government regulations, it's definitely going to be a pain to meet all the criteria necessary.
However, do you have any idea if the same rules and regulations apply for both individuals and businesses that run mining hardware?

Regarding the H1B visa, you're right, I found out that the yearly salary can get quite big and we're not sure if we could all achieve getting U.S employers to sponsor us.

I'm aware that the minimum wage does not discriminate against any particular group of individuals.

For the specific reason that the human resource component is so expensive relative to our startup capital I see two possible avenues:
1. cut-off my current minority partners but lose some of the capital & at the same time replace them with other minority partners that fill their skill-sets in the U.S
2. raise more capital in order for the human resource cost to be relatively acceptable

[User365]

IF you plan on relocating your miners, WHY would you choose the US ? 

China has nearly free electricity.
Russia has nearly free electricity and you get discounts on electricity if you tell the energy provider that you are mining.
A lot other countries have nearly free electricity 

[ernst.von.siemens]

IF you plan on relocating your miners, WHY would you choose the US ? 

China has nearly free electricity.
Russia has nearly free electricity and you get discounts on electricity if you tell the energy provider that you are mining.
A lot other countries have nearly free electricity 

I know that if you want to invest in a Chinese venture, you will have to partner with a Chinese citizen and make him majority partner >50.1%. We're not really comfortable with this. China has the primary market from where you could purchase the hardware (faster and maybe cheaper?). I don't know if the distribution in China is strong and I don't want to assume anything just because that's where the production happens.

Russia is 0.11$ / kWH and it doesn't nearly compare with the 0.025$ offered by the U.S.
On top of it, Russia doesn't have distribution networks that can fill your hardware orders.
However, the discounted rate might be attractive, could you please provide more information on it?

Sure, there are lots of other countries with "free" electricity but there are severe downsides that affect major business cycles like acquisition and liquidation.

[aquapanic]

You are attempting to try to start exactly the same operation I am trying to start. In the exact same location. A few things to consider -
with $100,000 it may be better to try to immigrate into the US and incorporate as an LLC from the get-go. This is a very very simplistic tax and business structures, and it allows you to onboard as many partners as you do/don't want - the revenue just passes straight through to the partners - if you incorporate as a Corporation your executives (as a minimum) are required by law to take a "reasonable salary." The other thing to consider is that rent on spaces in that area is quite high - I am sure that at the scale you are talking about you will have no problem filling out the space to make the rent costs not that significant, unless you already own some amount of property. If you want to team up, send me a PM.