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Author Topic: What do we really know about AMC?  (Read 5910 times)
burnside
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June 04, 2013, 12:45:07 AM
 #21

Doh.

Quote
REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES ACT
NO. 32 OF 1992

...

RESITRICTIONS ON INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES
10. (1) An international company shall not:-

  (a) carry on business in Vanuatu;
  (b) acquire or own an interest in immovable property situate in
    Vanuatu other than a lease referred to in subsection (2)(b);
  (c) carry on banking business as defined by the Banking Act [Cap. 63]
  (d) carry on trust business as defined by the Trust companies Act [Cap.69];
  (e) carry on insurance business as defined by the Insurance Act [Cap. 82];
    or
  (f) carry on company management business;
  (g) at any time have less than one member;
  (h) make any invitation to the public to –
    (i) subscribe for any shares or debentures in the company; or
    (ii) deposit money with or lend money to the company.

I did find it amusing that they misspelled RESTRICTIONS in their document.  Wink


Yes, maybe I am naive, but what if Ken/AMC succeeds in getting delivery of those ASIC chips? What if he does use the money raised by offering shares to hire a good technical team and actually gets those mining rigs up and running?  Yes, I agree that he did some things in a sloppy way, and tends to some hyperbole, but so far, I do not see any evidence of outright fraud, only lack of some transparency. And yes, I am an adult who took a risk by investing with AMC. But, all of the people who invested in AMC, (I hope) are aware of the risks involved in any and all Bitcoin ventures. I am curious why those who have no horse in this race seem obligated to save and educate those of us either stupid enough or who like gambling or are willing to take risks?


Anyone with even a fraction of a bitcoin to their name has a horse in this race.  If those that know what they're doing allow new bitcoin users to blindly get scammed into oblivion, what future does bitcoin really have?  Not everyone can be a legal pro, or a technical pro, or a social pro, or a management pro.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses.  I tend to value insight from all walks, as it helps to form an overall picture of the risk involved in going with one investment or another.  (and really, all bitcoin investments should be considered gambles more than anything.)

What I dug up above is a minor legal oversight.  Minor just because no one cares much.  Even if the gov't of Vanuatu found out it'd probably be some pretty serious fines or something and AMC would just ignore them.

All AMC has to do is re-incorporate on a different island elsewhere and they should be just fine.  Smiley


Burnside, since you love doing it check this out: Seychelles.

I actually applied there for BTC Trading Corp.  Got denied.  Sad


I'm not a Coinbase fan -- I placed a buy order, they took the funds out of my bank account immediately. Within a week the price had gone up 10% and on the day I was to receive my Bitcoins they canceled the buy and closed my account.
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chsados
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June 04, 2013, 02:30:13 AM
 #22

Quote
What do we really know about AMC?  

Any sheep who give you money deserve the shearing they will get.  But shame on Bitfunder for allowing it.

we know AMC has ordered 7 Avalon boxes and 20,000 Avalon chips.

Please man up and take your FUD to a Scam Accusation thread, if you're so sure the facts are on your side.

I'm sorry if for some reason you took my OP as an attack or offensive in any way, it was not intended as such.  Roll Eyes

Knowing he has ordered chips is one thing - knowing more about VMC and how they are sure they can actually deliver is another.
kslaughter
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June 04, 2013, 02:45:18 AM
 #23

Doh.

Quote
REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES ACT
NO. 32 OF 1992

...

RESITRICTIONS ON INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES
10. (1) An international company shall not:-

  (a) carry on business in Vanuatu;
  (b) acquire or own an interest in immovable property situate in
    Vanuatu other than a lease referred to in subsection (2)(b);
  (c) carry on banking business as defined by the Banking Act [Cap. 63]
  (d) carry on trust business as defined by the Trust companies Act [Cap.69];
  (e) carry on insurance business as defined by the Insurance Act [Cap. 82];
    or
  (f) carry on company management business;
  (g) at any time have less than one member;
  (h) make any invitation to the public to –
    (i) subscribe for any shares or debentures in the company; or
    (ii) deposit money with or lend money to the company.

I did find it amusing that they misspelled RESTRICTIONS in their document.  Wink


Yes, maybe I am naive, but what if Ken/AMC succeeds in getting delivery of those ASIC chips? What if he does use the money raised by offering shares to hire a good technical team and actually gets those mining rigs up and running?  Yes, I agree that he did some things in a sloppy way, and tends to some hyperbole, but so far, I do not see any evidence of outright fraud, only lack of some transparency. And yes, I am an adult who took a risk by investing with AMC. But, all of the people who invested in AMC, (I hope) are aware of the risks involved in any and all Bitcoin ventures. I am curious why those who have no horse in this race seem obligated to save and educate those of us either stupid enough or who like gambling or are willing to take risks?


Anyone with even a fraction of a bitcoin to their name has a horse in this race.  If those that know what they're doing allow new bitcoin users to blindly get scammed into oblivion, what future does bitcoin really have?  Not everyone can be a legal pro, or a technical pro, or a social pro, or a management pro.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses.  I tend to value insight from all walks, as it helps to form an overall picture of the risk involved in going with one investment or another.  (and really, all bitcoin investments should be considered gambles more than anything.)

What I dug up above is a minor legal oversight.  Minor just because no one cares much.  Even if the gov't of Vanuatu found out it'd probably be some pretty serious fines or something and AMC would just ignore them.

All AMC has to do is re-incorporate on a different island elsewhere and they should be just fine.  Smiley


Burnside, since you love doing it check this out: Seychelles.

I actually applied there for BTC Trading Corp.  Got denied.  Sad



Changing to Seychelles now, easier that Vanuatu.
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June 04, 2013, 07:46:41 PM
 #24

I'm sorry if for some reason you took my OP as an attack or offensive in any way, it was not intended as such.  Roll Eyes

Knowing he has ordered chips is one thing - knowing more about VMC and how they are sure they can actually deliver is another.

Well there you go.  You know AMC has ordered (machines and) chips.  Why use such a panicky, FUD inducing title when you literally know better?

You could have used the title "What we really know about AMC" instead, given their machine and chip orders are public information. 

But that doesn't get you what you wanted - to make an insinuation of a scam without having to actually back it up with facts.

Ignore entropy-uc's caterwauling.  He's still holding an ancient grudge from being proven wrong about Bitfloor, which has payed me all of my BTC and USD in full exactly as I said they would.  Most people know better than to drag in old feuds from other threads, but he can't help himself.  Poor thing; bless his heart.   Kiss


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
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June 05, 2013, 01:34:34 PM
 #25

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

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June 05, 2013, 02:29:57 PM
 #26

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.
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June 05, 2013, 10:57:05 PM
 #27

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.
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June 05, 2013, 11:09:35 PM
 #28

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.

I notice that all the orders are held in the name of VMC, your wholly owned company.

Does AMC have written contracts defining their rights to the hardware on order?  Please post all such agreements.
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June 06, 2013, 01:38:01 AM
 #29

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.

I notice that all the orders are held in the name of VMC, your wholly owned company.

Does AMC have written contracts defining their rights to the hardware on order?  Please post all such agreements.

I am sure you did, you are looking for anything you can find to drag us down.  

AMC has a contract with me, purchasing the 6 Avalon's that I paid for out of my own pocket.

AMC only has Pre-Orders with VMC.  AMC and VMC have a contract which is posted in images on bitfunder.com which spells out their relationship.
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June 06, 2013, 04:34:08 AM
 #30

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.

No, I don't post FUD. Don't take this the wrong way, but you have a habit of shitty investor relations. Like when you told me to fuck off on IRC when I asked you why you rebought shares at a higher price during your IPO.

Get this straight -- I know Avalon doesn't change the shipping addresses. What I am asking is if you gave Avalon the same shipping address you gave us as your business address. You cut that part out -- what I am questioning was if Avalon ever got the shipping address we have on file for you, not if you've recently changed it.
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June 06, 2013, 11:42:28 AM
 #31

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.

No, I don't post FUD. Don't take this the wrong way, but you have a habit of shitty investor relations. Like when you told me to fuck off on IRC when I asked you why you rebought shares at a higher price during your IPO.

Get this straight -- I know Avalon doesn't change the shipping addresses. What I am asking is if you gave Avalon the same shipping address you gave us as your business address. You cut that part out -- what I am questioning was if Avalon ever got the shipping address we have on file for you, not if you've recently changed it.

The address is the same.  I never rebought shares at a higher price than what I was offering the shares for.  I only rebought shares at a low price to keep the speculators from purchasing the shares at an even low price.  This made the speculators mad, like yourself.
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June 06, 2013, 11:16:11 PM
 #32

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.

No, I don't post FUD. Don't take this the wrong way, but you have a habit of shitty investor relations. Like when you told me to fuck off on IRC when I asked you why you rebought shares at a higher price during your IPO.

Get this straight -- I know Avalon doesn't change the shipping addresses. What I am asking is if you gave Avalon the same shipping address you gave us as your business address. You cut that part out -- what I am questioning was if Avalon ever got the shipping address we have on file for you, not if you've recently changed it.

The address is the same.  I never rebought shares at a higher price than what I was offering the shares for.  I only rebought shares at a low price to keep the speculators from purchasing the shares at an even low price.  This made the speculators mad, like yourself.

Can we get a screen shot of the bottom part of that page so we can see the address?

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June 07, 2013, 12:41:59 AM
 #33

First 3 Avalon's order # 1245 are on their way:

img]http://www.axs.net/AMC/Complete-1.png[/img]

Do we know that the asics have been shipped to the address on file? The screenshot above does not include a shipping address.

Usagi, You know that Avalon does not change any of the shipping addresses on the units.  The address the unit are to be ship to
has been posted online before.  Just a little of your FUD.

No, I don't post FUD. Don't take this the wrong way, but you have a habit of shitty investor relations. Like when you told me to fuck off on IRC when I asked you why you rebought shares at a higher price during your IPO.

Get this straight -- I know Avalon doesn't change the shipping addresses. What I am asking is if you gave Avalon the same shipping address you gave us as your business address. You cut that part out -- what I am questioning was if Avalon ever got the shipping address we have on file for you, not if you've recently changed it.

The address is the same.  I never rebought shares at a higher price than what I was offering the shares for.  I only rebought shares at a low price to keep the speculators from purchasing the shares at an even low price.  This made the speculators mad, like yourself.

Can we get a screen shot of the bottom part of that page so we can see the address?

No, for security reasons.
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June 07, 2013, 02:09:17 AM
 #34


Can we get a screen shot of the bottom part of that page so we can see the address?

No, for security reasons.

Yup, because the address is different. Bingo.

We already know the address because kslaughter published "his" address, but now he won't show us his.... address?

Oh, because the address is different, right?

I wonder how long it will take for these ASICs to "bu jian"  Roll Eyes
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June 07, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
 #35


Can we get a screen shot of the bottom part of that page so we can see the address?

No, for security reasons.

Yup, because the address is different. Bingo.

We already know the address because kslaughter published "his" address, but now he won't show us his.... address?

Oh, because the address is different, right?

I wonder how long it will take for these ASICs to "bu jian"  Roll Eyes

usagi, does "bu jian" mean 'go missing' or 'go bye-bye?'

In any case, you may keep an eye on AMC's Avalon hashrate here:

https://www.btcguild.com//index.php?page=rankings&section=teams



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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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June 08, 2013, 12:44:27 AM
 #36

What are your feelings on AMC?  Granted, I only briefly browsed the massive thread - but what do we really know about the owners?

- Who owns it?
- Where are they located?
- When do they expect to start mining?
ETC



Ken, you should take the silence of ^these^ crickets as an apology/congratulations.     Grin

/FUD thread


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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June 08, 2013, 01:08:30 AM
 #37

So Ken got 'em Avalon's already. congrats.

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June 14, 2013, 03:22:37 PM
 #38

Doh.

Quote
REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES ACT
NO. 32 OF 1992

...

RESITRICTIONS ON INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES
10. (1) An international company shall not:-

  (a) carry on business in Vanuatu;
  (b) acquire or own an interest in immovable property situate in
    Vanuatu other than a lease referred to in subsection (2)(b);
  (c) carry on banking business as defined by the Banking Act [Cap. 63]
  (d) carry on trust business as defined by the Trust companies Act [Cap.69];
  (e) carry on insurance business as defined by the Insurance Act [Cap. 82];
    or
  (f) carry on company management business;
  (g) at any time have less than one member;
  (h) make any invitation to the public to –
    (i) subscribe for any shares or debentures in the company; or
    (ii) deposit money with or lend money to the company.

I did find it amusing that they misspelled RESTRICTIONS in their document.  Wink


Yes, maybe I am naive, but what if Ken/AMC succeeds in getting delivery of those ASIC chips? What if he does use the money raised by offering shares to hire a good technical team and actually gets those mining rigs up and running?  Yes, I agree that he did some things in a sloppy way, and tends to some hyperbole, but so far, I do not see any evidence of outright fraud, only lack of some transparency. And yes, I am an adult who took a risk by investing with AMC. But, all of the people who invested in AMC, (I hope) are aware of the risks involved in any and all Bitcoin ventures. I am curious why those who have no horse in this race seem obligated to save and educate those of us either stupid enough or who like gambling or are willing to take risks?


Anyone with even a fraction of a bitcoin to their name has a horse in this race.  If those that know what they're doing allow new bitcoin users to blindly get scammed into oblivion, what future does bitcoin really have?  Not everyone can be a legal pro, or a technical pro, or a social pro, or a management pro.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses.  I tend to value insight from all walks, as it helps to form an overall picture of the risk involved in going with one investment or another.  (and really, all bitcoin investments should be considered gambles more than anything.)

What I dug up above is a minor legal oversight.  Minor just because no one cares much.  Even if the gov't of Vanuatu found out it'd probably be some pretty serious fines or something and AMC would just ignore them.

All AMC has to do is re-incorporate on a different island elsewhere and they should be just fine.  Smiley


btw, why did you incorporate in Belize and didn´t ask for licensed company to be regulated? I work for offshore service company, I am doing it regurarly for our clients...
"Trading in financial and commodity-based derivative instruments and other securities (e.g. futures, options, interest rates, foreign exchange instruments, shares, stock, contracts for differences, etc.)"

It is expensive, I know, proper due diligence, AML regulations etc. Personally, I do not care, I have an account at btct.to and also I own shares of AMC. Btw, Seychelles is not good jurisdiction for this as well.

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Pool of Stake









ICO Starts
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20 July




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