I feel it is my duty to warn you all.

[Anonymous]

Regulations only benefit the existing players and dont do anything to actually signal the correct course of action.

[1714786717]

1714786717

[1714786717]

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[1714786717]

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[Anonymous]

I feel it is my duty to warn you all...

i just farted -

and it is strong enough to penetrate teh innanetz.

bitcoin forums = a public toilet.

congratulations on showing why the toilet is never meant to go near the front door.

[static]

sorry. just trolling the OP troll...

[realnowhereman]

Mt.Gox will be regulated by the market.  As we'll see when it eventually opens.

*snort* We've seen how well that works. Mt Gox has been massively, spectacularly negligent about security on multiple occasions, people appear to have lost money as a result, and look how much the market's actually punished them: it hasn't. Why not? Because no-one actually has access to the information required to tell for sure how secure Mt Gox actually is right now, so they end up making judgements based on gut feelings and justify them with arguments like "because Mt Gox has gotten hacked that means they're going to be more secure than exchanges that haven't been hacked repeatedly". This is actually a fairly well known problem with the free market and computer security issues.

What are you talking about?  If people want to use the argument "they'll be more secure now they've been hacked" that is their choice, not yours.  If you think Mt.Gox is insecure, excellent, move elsewhere.  Tradehill has seen a huge boost in volume since the Mt.Gox hack.  That is the market regulating exactly as I said it would.

I suspect there is still a market opening for an exchange that actively promotes its security.  When that appears, we'll see more self-regulation of the market going on.

You seem not to have read passed the sentence you quoted in my post.  Mt.Gox has suffered loss of business.  It has suffered in exact proportion to the number of customers who took their money and went somewhere else.  Mt.Gox will know this; and so will every other exchange.

What on earth makes you think that regulation creates better outcomes?  I grant you that regulators have much better PR.  They are just the people you want on hand just after a disaster.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/27/technology/citi_credit_card/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2

[makomk]

What are you talking about?  If people want to use the argument "they'll be more secure now they've been hacked" that is their choice, not yours.  If you think Mt.Gox is insecure, excellent, move elsewhere.  Tradehill has seen a huge boost in volume since the Mt.Gox hack.  That is the market regulating exactly as I said it would.

And their choice provides no incentive for sites to actually care about security. Worse, nearly all of the loss of business seems to be a result of them failing to bring the site back up again promptly; it's punishment for caring too much about security.

I suspect there is still a market opening for an exchange that actively promotes its security.  When that appears, we'll see more self-regulation of the market going on.

We won't, because there's no way for users to verify these marketing claims are true. Most likely everyone will assume that they're lying and continue using Mt Gox, with a few widely-read conspiracy theories claiming they're the ones that hacked Mt Gox in the first place. (I came to this conclusion because in a way this has already happened with Tradehill.)

[Elwar]

If bad things happen at MtGox...then people stop using it and move to something more stable. No regulation required here. Move along.

QED

[d3wo]

I cannot post outside this area, but perhaps some of you might benefit from what I have to say.

I work in finance for an international NGO and have been watching this bitcoin saga unfold with some academic curiosity and no small level of entertainment. I have no problems with bitcoin as a concept, and the agencies and governments I work with have little concern aside from its potential use as a medium for money laundering, though even in this respect it is still a very minor one given the tiny size of the bitcoin economy relative to that of other illicit financial activities. On the list of priorities, it isn't. So you all have no need for worry there from what I have heard.

However.

This is a world with laws. The frankly hilarious incompetence with which MtGox has been operating cannot be allowed to continue. Regulation, no matter what some of you seem to think of it, exists for a reason, and it is to prevent things such as this. Had there been accurate reporting, disclosure, meeting of capital requirements, self-regulatory structure and organization, safeguards against market manipulation, and so on, perhaps this all could have been avoided. It is for this reason that I contacted a colleague with the Japanese Financial Services Agency, who will be investigating MtGox for operating in violation of the Financial Instruments and Exchange Law. Their criminal negligence will end up costing many of you money; hopefully my warning here and swift action by the Japanese authorities will minimize that.

Enjoy.

Bring it ON OP!    don't just trollin, give real action!
I'd love to see how you tackle this system 
Apperently you forgets this system is made to liberate people from trollz ?
Let us see how many bullets you have 

[Yatta99]

I hear that the Japanese government is assigning the Strike Witches to take care of this problem   

[twobits]

I cannot post outside this area, but perhaps some of you might benefit from what I have to say.

I work in finance for an international NGO and have been watching this bitcoin saga unfold with some academic curiosity and no small level of entertainment. I have no problems with bitcoin as a concept, and the agencies and governments I work with have little concern aside from its potential use as a medium for money laundering, though even in this respect it is still a very minor one given the tiny size of the bitcoin economy relative to that of other illicit financial activities. On the list of priorities, it isn't. So you all have no need for worry there from what I have heard.

However.

This is a world with laws. The frankly hilarious incompetence with which MtGox has been operating cannot be allowed to continue. Regulation, no matter what some of you seem to think of it, exists for a reason, and it is to prevent things such as this. Had there been accurate reporting, disclosure, meeting of capital requirements, self-regulatory structure and organization, safeguards against market manipulation, and so on, perhaps this all could have been avoided. It is for this reason that I contacted a colleague with the Japanese Financial Services Agency, who will be investigating MtGox for operating in violation of the Financial Instruments and Exchange Law. Their criminal negligence will end up costing many of you money; hopefully my warning here and swift action by the Japanese authorities will minimize that.

Enjoy.

So you personally have no skin in the game, no one asked you for your 'help', and yet you felt the need to bring them more trouble?   Your own life so boring you have the need to be a busy body?   Wonder what personality disorder creates that type of need in a person, and what they feel they gain  from it.  If we could figure that out, maybe we could figure out a way to divert and channel these types of people into more useful activities.

[twobits]

I just wonder how long a tip like that will take to trickle thru the Japanese system before anything would be done. likely there is no precedent for something like this either. as much as people call bitcoin a currency it is really not and is not subject to the same financial standards and laws. for instance could i get that same agency involved if someone stole all my wow gold it is effectively the same concept and is a "digital currency" as well.
there is a huge grey area here and it will likely be addressed in the coming months.  just my 2 cents  

This was an area of some discussion. However, there are several sections that may apply. I'm sure that the lawyers will be sorting much of this out for years (in general, not specific to this case), but the "low hanging fruit" here seems to be dealing in deposits in a foreign currency for investment purposes that may lose value owing to fluctuations in traditional forex markets, even though in this case they were unlikely to be converted into yen.

An exchange is an exchange,  it has nothing to do directly with investment,  how can you assume that someone that wants to buy a bitcoin or sell a bitcoin is doing it for investment purposes and not transactional?

[iambean]

I notice that people get extremely defensive when someone makes a valid point such as the OP. I'm curious as to why? I'm not taking a stand here, or saying I agree/disagree with the OP, but why all the hostility?  

How much money does Mt. Gox have? I see people posting about long delays in getting their cash out. Could this be a liquidity flag? Are they using up the cash that comes in to operate in hopes of paying off the orders?

Let's forget about the hack, that could have happened to anyone, but honestly what system is in place to ensure that any exchange doesn't just rack up the coins/cash and shut down over night?

Has it been agreed by the community that we simply have to trust an exchange in the name of bitcoin?

Again, these are just questions that I've had and every thread that starts to talk about it gets bogged down by people crying foul, etc. Why?

[twobits]

Yeah, pretty much like the much more serious hack of Sony was avoided, right?

Sony is not a financial exchange.

But yes, if you think you will convince me that regulation is unnecessary, you are wasting your time. It, even if imperfectly, does ensure a more or less level playing field, a single set of rules, and most importantly accountability when things go awry. Nothing against bitcoin, knock yourselves out. I honestly do believe it will survive, just with different markets.

Sony deals in a number of virtual currencies, and operates a market and exchange for digital goods.  

You are one of the more dangerous types of people.  Ignorant of the field,  yet not even aware of such.  Also, already admitted to being close minded, and yet a busy body.

[twobits]

And really, yes, I did speak with the FSA. If Mark has complied with all applicable laws, then everything will be fine. But I assure you, they will be investigating.

I have no financial interest in this game. I just thought I'd let you all know.

Anyhow, nice speaking with you all, but I have things that need my attention.

Lol,  again admit no skin in the game.  Busy bodied, pompus and no time to even discuss and learn.

[twobits]

Even with all the regulation, look what happened to the states just a few years back. You can be incompetent with or without regulation. The only difference is that only some incompetence is backed by the most powerful government in the world. (for now)

Years of gradual deregulation and malfeasance. The laws that would have prevented much of the US economic crisis were repealed. Not that there might not have been a different crisis in its place, bright minds can be very creative when finding ways to make money.

Really though, I'm off.

Wrong again,   but no point in trying to educate you since you are off.

[twobits]

Go to school.  Youtube is not an education.

Nor is schooling, especially these days.

[royalecraig]

Govt's and their Central Banker Puppet Masters are the Biggest Crooks, regulation isn't about public financial security it's about them maintaining control over the money supply.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but the entire western financial model is a massive Ponzi scheme, and you're right, what is there to stop MtGox running off with people's money, so maybe people need to think about that but suggesting the Govt ( Ben Bernanke ) 'regulate' the Bitcoin economy, there has to be a better way or we will end up with the same system we are trying to escape.
No Govt run regulating authority will ever let Bitcoin run as a truly free market monetary system,

[Colargol]

Worth thinking about... 
hmm...
okay I'm done...   


Money is the root of all evil
and the leaves of kindness
so why not relieve yourself
and kindly leave some to me

 

[vectorvictor]

 ... this bitcoin saga ... relative to that of other illicit financial activities ...

This is a world with laws ... cannot be allowed to continue ... Regulation ... reporting ... disclosure ... capital requirements ... structure and organization ... market manipulation, and so on ...

i, for one, welcome our new financial overlords.

[Tulkas]

Fair enough. Why do you think I have not started an exchange in UK? Yep, could not afford or raise 200-500k£ required to get FSA license and cover compliance costs.

Imagine how many business, in so many different sectors, fail to be created due to these kind of requirements?
These artificially created barriers to entry only serve to benefit those who are already established. It's sad to see so many people doesn't getting it and supporting more of these regulations, and at the same time they blaming free markets for income disparities.

Totally agree. Those compliance costs seems more like a barrier to entry than anything else.

[lame.duck]

Fair enough. Why do you think I have not started an exchange in UK? Yep, could not afford or raise 200-500k£ required to get FSA license and cover compliance costs.

Imagine how many business, in so many different sectors, fail to be created due to these kind of requirements?
These artificially created barriers to entry only serve to benefit those who are already established. It's sad to see so many people doesn't getting it and supporting more of these regulations, and at the same time they blaming free markets for income disparities.

Totally agree. Those compliance costs seems more like a barrier to entry than anything else.

And why not to rent a postbox in Japan or the cayman islands and start business there?