Electrum BTC Address Questions

[jerry0]

I have a lot of bitcoin addresses on my electrum wallet.  A few i used many transactions.  And a few others i either use 1 or 2 times or none.  

If i mention what my btc address is, could you take a look at the entire history of this btc address?  Like every single deposit/withdraw into this btc address?


For example say btc address is


1.  adfsjkadfksaldfsafkad;lsfjdks  


And say it has 25 transactions.  Could you look at every single transaction i have done on this address?  Could you also see what is the btc balance throughout the entire time i used this address?  I believe you could see what the current balance of btc is in this address right?


2.  Say this is btc address on your wallet and you only have say 3 transactions on it


jlkfadsjfkladjsfkjlasdjklfadjsjkl



If you look at this address, could you see all the transactions on this wallet?  Does it mean you cannot see what transactions take place on another bitcoin address in electrum whether it has 25 transactions or 2 transactions?

[TryNinja]

You can only see every transactions made by a unique address when searching him in any block explorer like Blockchain.info or BlockCypher, and see the Total Received and Total Sent, including how many coins the address had in a certain period.

But this doesn't mean that someone can't link addresses together to a single wallet. If you use inputs from multiple addresses in a single transaction, anyone can see that they have been sent by the same person.

[jerry0]

Okay in the first example.  If there were 25 transactions on that first bitcoin address.  You could see every single bitcoin transaction ever made on that address?  Could you also see the dates of it or not?  Or it just list all the transactions?


When you say use inputs from multiple address in a single transaction, can you explain what you mean by this?  So if my other bitcoin addresses has bitcoin in it but i never used those addresses to send or receive btc, are you telling me if i list that btc address, anyone could link it to every other bitcoin address i have in my electrum or not?


The other thing is say you only want to use a btc 1 or 2 times only.  How do you do this where people cannot see your btc history?  For example if you have 0.25 btc in an address that you might never have used but it just shows there.  When you send 0.1 btc, you would right click it and click send from this address?  And if thats the case, what happens if you want to send 0.35btc for example?  Would i have to first transfer btc from one of my addresses to the one that has 0.25btc to send all from that one?


I ask this because people always mentioned you should not reuse an address once.


So if thats the case, how do i send btc and receive btc where there is no history trail?  Like a btc address might have 1 transaction for 0.25btc.  Then when i receive or send to another btc address, i want to send/receive in another one.  That way i have no tracking where someone could see my whole history with just the address.


Say from now on, i want to send btc from an address that has no history.  So the receive wont know my transaction history and how much btc i have.


And i want to receive btc to an address that has no history.  I assume most ppl do this as oppose to using a few btc addresses?  So that way whether to send or receive btc to someone else, there is no way the other user could know how much btc they have?  Can someone tell how i can do this on electrum when sending and receiving btc?  I have btc in a few addresses in electrum.

[TryNinja]

Okay in the first example.  If there were 25 transactions on that first bitcoin address.  You could see every single bitcoin transaction ever made on that address?  Could you also see the dates of it or not?  Or it just list all the transactions?

Yes. Every transaction with dates since the beggining of the Bitcoin. Try yourself, https://blockchain.info/address/<YOUR ADDRESS HERE>

When you say use inputs from multiple address in a single transaction, can you explain what you mean by this?  So if my other bitcoin addresses has bitcoin in it but i never used those addresses to send or receive btc, are you telling me if i list that btc address, anyone could link it to every other bitcoin address i have in my electrum or not?

Imagine that you have a HD wallet with multiple addresses, you have 1 BTC in one address and 0.5 BTC in another one. If you want to send 1.5 BTC to buy some pizza, you will need to send 1 BTC from the first address and 0.5 from the second one - everything in the same transaction. Because of that, people will be able to see that the transaction was sent by two addresses at once.

The other thing is say you only want to use a btc 1 or 2 times only.  How do you do this where people cannot see your btc history?  For example if you have 0.25 btc in an address that you might never have used but it just shows there.  When you send 0.1 btc, you would right click it and click send from this address?  And if thats the case, what happens if you want to send 0.35btc for example?  Would i have to first transfer btc from one of my addresses to the one that has 0.25btc to send all from that one?

Normally, your wallet software will sent the amount you want by using multiple addresses if the amount is not enought in a single one. See my exemple above.

So if thats the case, how do i send btc and receive btc where there is no history trail?  Like a btc address might have 1 transaction for 0.25btc.  Then when i receive or send to another btc address, i want to send/receive in another one.  That way i have no tracking where someone could see my whole history with just the address.

Say from now on, i want to send btc from an address that has no history.  So the receive wont know my transaction history and how much btc i have.

If you have a HD wallet, which will generate a new address after every use, every payment will be sent to a new address inside the same wallet, making more difficulty to link all payments to a single person.

And i want to receive btc to an address that has no history.  I assume most ppl do this as oppose to using a few btc addresses?  So that way whether to send or receive btc to someone else, there is no way the other user could know how much btc they have?  Can someone tell how i can do this on electrum when sending and receiving btc?  I have btc in a few addresses in electrum.

While creating a new wallet with Electrum, if you choose to "Create a new seed", you will generate a HD wallet by default. And just like I said above, just use the address found in the "Receive" tab to receive payments, and Electrum will change it to a new address after every use.

[HCP]

So if thats the case, how do i send btc and receive btc where there is no history trail?  Like a btc address might have 1 transaction for 0.25btc.  Then when i receive or send to another btc address, i want to send/receive in another one.  That way i have no tracking where someone could see my whole history with just the address.

Say from now on, i want to send btc from an address that has no history.  So the receive wont know my transaction history and how much btc i have.

You cannot do this.

If I am understanding what you want... you want to be able to do something like this:
- YourAddressABC = No History = 0 BTC
- YourNewAddress123 = No Hisotry = 0 BTC

- RandomGuy sends 0.25btc to YourAddressABC
- YourAddressABC = 1 transaction = 0.25 BTC
- YourNewAddressABC = No History = 0 BTC

Now, you wan to take the 0.25btc and send "from" YourNewAddress123 to someOtherGuy... so "someOtherGuy" cannot see your transaction history and coin totals etc, correct?

Well, unfortunately, this is impossible... the 0.25btc is controlled by YourAddressABC, you cannot send "from" YourNewAddress123... it has no coins. You cannot move control of coins from one address to another address without creating an on-chain transaction, which is then visible to anyone who looks at the blockchain, and that will create a trail that can be followed.

This is why people invented Bitcoin Mixers

And i want to receive btc to an address that has no history.  I assume most ppl do this as oppose to using a few btc addresses?  So that way whether to send or receive btc to someone else, there is no way the other user could know how much btc they have?  Can someone tell how i can do this on electrum when sending and receiving btc?  I have btc in a few addresses in electrum.

To receive BTC to an address that has no history, you just simply generate a new address... most HD wallets do this automatically... older non-HD wallets, you needed to manage it yourself... generate a new address, give that new address to recipient.

Electrum should pick the first "unused" address in your address pool when you click on the "receive" tab... you should also be able to click the "new" button to move to the next new address.

[jerry0]

Okay thanks for the response.  So just to make sure again


If the btc address i used has that many transactions, then one person could view the entire history right?


So is there a way where i could get my btc somewhere... where i have my btc in a wallet but then there is no history of any of my previous transactions?


So i could create a new wallet on electrum... send the btc from my electrum to the new one.  But even if i do so, it will show the btc history of the addresses that i used a lot?


So does that mean using a mixer now is useless if i want the btc address where i did lot of transactions to be anonymous?

[Abdussamad]

As soon as you receive money to an address it becomes public. All it takes is one transaction. When a transaction confirms it gets incorporated into the blockchain and stays there forever. So that's why you should not reuse addresses because people can track your finances if you do that.

Learn why using a unique address per transaction is a good idea: https://bitcoinelectrum.com/frequently-asked-questions/#why-does-electrum-give-me-a-different-address-everytime

Learn to use the receive tab properly to get a new address everytime: https://bitcoinelectrum.com/how-to-use-the-electrum-receive-tab/

Bitcoin is not an anonymous currency so if you're trying to stay anonymous then don't use bitcoin. Use something else.

[jerry0]

Hi there.  So from now on, is there a way for me to use bitcoin on electrum where i cannot get tracked?  Or i would have to create a completely new bitcoin wallet in electrum. 


But how would i get the bitcoin from my electrum to my new wallet which i prefer is electrum?


Also want to ask another thing.  But if i get trezor, would that mean electrum is not needed?

[TryNinja]

Hi there.  So from now on, is there a way for me to use bitcoin on electrum where i cannot get tracked?  Or i would have to create a completely new bitcoin wallet in electrum.

Never use an address more than one time. That's the rule number one. If you create a wallet with Electrum and go to the "Addresses" tab, you will see all the addresses from that wallet. Use one for each transaction.

Also want to ask another thing.  But if i get trezor, would that mean electrum is not needed?

You can buy a Trezor if you want to keep your coins as safe as possible. The main advantage while using a hardware wallet like Trezor and Ledger, is that your private keys are stored only inside the device, making it impossible for any malware in your computer to steal your coins while making any transaction. Read this old post of mine to understand a little bit more[1].


[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2186168.msg21946777#msg21946777

[jerry0]

So what is my best option now if i want to send/receive btc anonymously if i have my btc in electrum now?  I cannot get a trezor now at the moment.


However if i send my btc from my electrum to another electrum wallet, wouldn't that still not work?  And if i send my btc from one address in electrum to another one in my electrum, wouldn't that be the same issue?  The thing is i used an address much more than once etc.


So if i send btc from an address in my electrum that has btc to one that has zero transactions, wouldn't it still show the btc transactions from back then as a trail though?

[BitMaxz]

So what is my best option now if i want to send/receive btc anonymously if i have my btc in electrum now?  I cannot get a trezor now at the moment.


However if i send my btc from my electrum to another electrum wallet, wouldn't that still not work?  And if i send my btc from one address in electrum to another one in my electrum, wouldn't that be the same issue?  The thing is i used an address much more than once etc.


So if i send btc from an address in my electrum that has btc to one that has zero transactions, wouldn't it still show the btc transactions from back then as a trail though?

Use chipmixer if you wanted to transact bitcoin in anonymous way just click our signature and you can see the start mixing and you will redirect to step by step just use this if you wanted your transaction is anonymous and i think no one can track your transaction just use a address that you newly created from electrum and get the private keys for backup and send your bitcoin using chipmixer and receive to your new electrum wallet. .

 This will be the safeway for now if you really wanted to save your bitcoin anonymously.

[jerry0]

Got another question.


When i click on Receive tab, it shows a receiving address.  However, is that the address most of you guys use to send/receive btc?  Because this address i believe i used but not many times etc.  However most people here don't use an address more than once right?


For example if someone ask you what is your receiving address, i assume most don't give that as their address on the receiving address on electrum?  Also is there a way to change that Receiving address on the Receive tab?   
When i click on it, you cannot seem to change it whether clicking or delete it and add a new one?  How does electrum show pick an address as the receiving address when there are so many addresses on your wallet. 


Because if people only use an address just once and then use another address, then does that receiving address on the receive tab in their electrum wallet stay the same?  The thing is when i click on it, you cannot change the receiving address on the receive tab.  So does that mean that receiving address is the address associated with your electrum or something? 


Thanks all.

[jerry0]

And how would one even go upon changing their receiving address on the receive tab?  Or you cannot do this?


I assume u cant delete the default receiving address on the receive tab?


So im confused what is that address and how they did choose it on the receive tab.  And if you didn't do much transactions on it, then its not your btc address?


The thing is when ppl say use a btc address only once.  Then if someone receives weekly or monthly payments etc, then do they give a different btc address everytime?  For example people would post their btc address on their profile.  So wouldn't that mean that address is used many times instead of just once?


Because the thing is how could you remain private if you post your btc address or give that address to different people who would send you payment?


But main question is how they did they choose the btc address on the receive tab.  Is it because its the first one showing on the Receiving/Used thing? 

[HCP]

And how would one even go upon changing their receiving address on the receive tab?  Or you cannot do this?
I assume u cant delete the default receiving address on the receive tab?
So im confused what is that address and how they did choose it on the receive tab.  And if you didn't do much transactions on it, then its not your btc address?

It changes automatically, after the current receiving address receives some coins and is marked as "used"... have a look on the "addresses" tab (you may need to use "View -> Show Addresses" to see this tab in v2.9.3)... you will see "Receive" addresses, and those marked as "used". The default address on the receive tab should be the first unused address (the first one with a "Tx" value of 0)

You might like to setup a copy of Electrum on the TestNet and use a TestNet faucet to get some coins to a couple of TestNet wallets and have a practice sending coins around to see how the addresses change etc.

To run on testnet, you just start Electrum using the --testnet commandline

The thing is when ppl say use a btc address only once.  Then if someone receives weekly or monthly payments etc, then do they give a different btc address everytime?  For example people would post their btc address on their profile.  So wouldn't that mean that address is used many times instead of just once?

Some try to use new addresses... but for regular payments, this can often be difficult/impossible to setup... having said that, in general, if you're always receiving coins from one particular address... and those payments are always going to the same address, it isn't really much different from getting one payment. People can still see that coins went from SenderAddressA to ReceiverAddressB regardless of if that happened once or 10 times.

The "privacy" issues with address reuse really stem from getting or sending to multiple different addresses repeatedly... ie. putting an address on your Bitcointalk profile... that is one address, and multiple people can send to it... now all these addresses are linked up... and you've "publicly" linked that address to yourself...

So, something like SenderAddressA, SenderAddressB, SenderAddressC ... SenderAddressZ all send to your bitcointalkProfileAddress.

or... you do something like:

yourAddressA -> someGuyOne
yourAddressA -> someOtherGuy
yourAddressA -> randomPerson321
yourAddressA -> yetAnotherBitcoinAddress

you have now effectively created "links" between all of these addresses...

Because the thing is how could you remain private if you post your btc address or give that address to different people who would send you payment?

Depends on your definition of private. Some people care... others don't... and the real problem is that regardless of how "safe" you are and follow best practices like only using an address once etc... if you ever receive or send to someone who doesn't care and re-uses addresses etc... it can ruin your privacy by association.

If you're serious about remaining anonymous, then BTC probably isn't the best crypto currency... you'd be better off with something properly anonymous with on-chain mixing like Monero.

[jerry0]

Hey all got another question.


So im going to most likely trade altcoins on bittrex.  But to do this, you need btc.  I can get btc from sites and they would send me btc.  The thing is how would i be able to have less tracing of bitcoin address?


For example i receive btc from a site.  I would tell them to send the btc to one of those addresses in my wallet that has zero transactions right? 


Then how would i send btc from my electrum wallet where when i send the btc from electrum to bittrex, then they could only see that btc transfer and movement?  For example say i want to get 1 btc.  Send 1 btc from electrum to bittrex.  I would have to right click and then click SEND FROM THIS ADDRESS to the bittrex address?


The other thing is when i send btc from bittrex to electrum since i read even if you trade, its best to keep your wallet in your own wallet as oppose to exchange, then what btc address should i send to from bittrex?  Would i be using a different btc address everytime i send from bittrex to electrum and vice versa?  The reason why i ask this is because in electrum, one or two of my addresses i used a lot etc.


So i would everytime i receive btc from any site or bittrex, send it to a btc address in my electrum wallet that has 0 transactions?  And everytime i send btc from electrum to bittrex, always right click and send it from that particular address so it would be more anonymous?


And most importantly if i a different btc address everytime i send or receive to bittrex/electrum etc, that means theres less tracing right?  Thus an address that i have used a lot in my electrum wallet wouldnt be able to detect these other transactions from my different btc address in my wallet. 

[HCP]

All movements prior to this -> Site Sending you BTC -> Your wallet -> Bittrex

That is effectively what Bittrex, and what the site sending you BTC, would be able to track... Having said that, theoretically, Bittrex can't know for certain what the addresses prior to yours are unless they have extra info... likewise, the site sending you BTC can't know for certain what the addresses AFTER your address are without extra info... you could just be moving coins amongst your own accounts, or sending them to other people or using a bitcoin mixer or...

In all honesty... your desire for anonymity is somewhat misplaced with Bitcoin... it isn't as anonymous as people like to think... and blockchain analysis companies exist for a reason... like I said, go use Monero if you are super concerned about anonymity...

Send Monero to exchange... trade it however you want within the exchange... send it back to your Monero wallet if you're concerned about storing funds on an exchange for an extended period of time.

If you can't get around the "receive BTC from site" part... just send the BTC via a mixer to the exchange... trade it how you like... then back into Monero and into your Monero wallet...

Otherwise, if you're just sending BTC around, pretend like you have 0 anonymity... because as soon as you rely on it being "anonymous", you're like to get into trouble.

[jerry0]

So wouldn't any bitcoin i get from now on... say have a site send btc to my electrum account but i give them an electrum address i never used.


So when i transfer that btc to another site ... wouldn't that mean the only trace of that btc is from that address only?  For example let say starting from now on.  I request btc from a site and give them a new btc address everytime.  Then everytime i send btc to a site, i click send btc from this address.  So wouldn't mean that these new addresses i use everytime when sending and receiving WOULD NOT BE LINKED with a btc address that i used a lot to send etc?  For example, if i give you a btc address that i used many times, would you be able to link it to any other btc addresses that i have used etc?  Or only if i give you the other btc addresses that i use 1 time only and then you could check if these addresses are related?  Or you cannot do this?

[HCP]

The only way for those BTC addresses to get linked would be if several of them were included in the same transaction... This generally occurs when you need to send an amount that is larger than one address holds, so Electrum has to combine multiple UTXOs to make up the required amount...

For instance:
AddressA 0.1 BTC
AddressB 0.2 BTC
AddressC 0.2 BTC

And you want to send 0.5 BTC... It would need to combine all those 3 inputs... And then they'd all be "linked" as coming from the same source.

However, by right clicking and saying, send from this address, I believe that Electrum will only let you send up to the amount contained solely in that address.

So if you right clicked AddressB and selected "send from this address", it would only let you spend 0.2 BTC max, but it would mean that you never accidentally "linked" your addresses.

[jerry0]

Okay so i have a few btc addresses where i used those addresses a lot to send and receive.  I also have btc addresses where there shows btc amount there but i never used those addresses even once.  But if i have btc sent from another address to this btc address of mine where it has btc though i never used it, that means it would still be linked to one of the addresses where i use the btc address a lot?  For example when i type in one of those btc addresses that have btc but i never used those btc addresses, it links to the original btc address etc.


So if i click send btc only from that address in my electrum wallet, it still would show a link to the original btc address right?


So that means any btc that i have in my electrum wallet no matter what address the btc is in, it would be linked to the original btc address that i use a lot?


Okay but let say starting from now, i want i request btc from a site and give them a brand new btc address i never used.  Then when i receive that btc, i would send that btc to another site for example.  So wouldn't that mean you cant really just use a btc address once?  Thus its really twice since you have to receive btc first to that address?  Then the next time you receive btc, you have them send it to a completely different btc address? 


So example you receive 2 btc from a site and have them send to address10 which u never used.  You send 2btc to another site.  Then later on you request 1 btc from a site and have them to send it to address11.  Then you send those btc to another site.  Then you withdraw 1.1 btc from another site and have them send to address12.  So would that mean this be better because you are using the addresses 2 times only?  How is it possible to only use an address once?  That is what confuses me.  And i assume when you send btc from your electrum, make sure you click send from this btc address only right such as address 10 or 11 etc?  That way it doesn't get connected to addressA or B which you used a lot?


Also one other thing.  So when i send btc to a site or someone, if there is not enough btc on addressa, it would take some from b.  But when the site or other person receives the btc, IT ONLY SHOWS ONE BTC ADDRESS RIGHT?



So let say starting from now, i do not touch any of my btc in my electrum wallet.  Any btc that i send now will only be btc i receive from now on.  So if i click send from this address everytime, then that works out the best?

[HCP]

Okay so i have a few btc addresses where i used those addresses a lot to send and receive.  I also have btc addresses where there shows btc amount there but i never used those addresses even once. 

They're probably change addresses... If you don't spend the full amount of a UTXO, you get "change" which Electrum puts back into a new address.

These new addresses are effectively linked to the original address you sent from... As they'll show on the blockchain.

Example: https://blockchain.info/tx/fa65a6c0fc053d1ff861023dfc2f9a5eb6ef88095d9ff9b85ae56904613d26f3

Here the person had 2.86789873 BTC in address 18doD24d3UpKVcVcQyUMwoxtum2JcqgEUS, they sent 2.85963189 BTC to 1Q6hc4irsnqcnq68XZE3t7JVJBkVBeseFN, which left a change amount of 0.00691084 BTC, which was placed into address 1JpvUJ7FXziVNZ4CT7WRSimnS72oHVYhw9.

So the 1Jpv "change" address is now linked to the original 18do address...

(Note, it's also possible that the person actually only sent the 0.00691084 amount and the 2.85963189 amount was the change... Further analysis would be required to determine which was which, but you should get the idea of how people can see the links etc)

Okay but let say starting from now, i want i request btc from a site and give them a brand new btc address i never used.  Then when i receive that btc, i would send that btc to another site for example.  So wouldn't that mean you cant really just use a btc address once?  Thus its really twice since you have to receive btc first to that address?  Then the next time you receive btc, you have them send it to a completely different btc address? 

Yes, by use an address once, people really mean 1 receive, 1 spend...

Also one other thing.  So when i send btc to a site or someone, if there is not enough btc on addressa, it would take some from b.  But when the site or other person receives the btc, IT ONLY SHOWS ONE BTC ADDRESS RIGHT?

No. It will show all the addresses that coins have been used from. Check this transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/78cb7aa7d8780860928cf009887d75628995420f352d09d7f158674fa68533e4

You can see how it has combined UTXOs from around 30 different addresses into one payment... All those addresses are now effectively "linked" as belonging to the same person.