[ANN] ZenithCoin (ZTC) Market Making Sustainable Crypto Currency

[solracx]

It is clear the model for your coin is ill-advised.

Not if the objective is to hold 50% of all mined coins...

Without an instrument for the investors (miners) to steer the funds to goals its pretty much broken from the getgo.
The fund could be very transparent about buying blow and hookers from the coins and there is nothing the investors could do except walk away and take their losses.

A this time there is no mechanism for investors to steer where the funds go.

The first goal however is to provide transparency as to where the funds are going via the block chain and enhancements to the block chain explorer.

[solracx]

It seems to me 'market making' will be the primary activity, other than development projects, for the 50% of coins.  Yet, I see no finance team to complement the dev team.  You show no credentials or resume, hide behind an avatar like 99.9% of other users on this forum, and somehow we're supposed to be comfortable with the idea your skills as an arbitrageur and capital/finance manager will provide positive ROI for 50% of mined coins?  How in the world is this different than banks using deposits so poorly that once the market turns against them (eg. mortgage market) even slightly, they will need a bail out?  Congrats, you have invented the open source version of this financial nonsense.  Except there is no central governing entity to bail out zenith coin.  It will just fail, leaving a wasteful carbon footprint and nothing more.  This is laughable.  And all transparency will do is allow us to better see you risk assets and, consequently, DESTROY future development projects.  Your 'market making' activities will have the exact opposite effect of creating incentive for the devs.  I repeat, this is laughable.

Let's speak about arbitrage here for a second.  Current crypto markets are extremely inefficient, so any basic level of automation can easily profit out of this inefficiency.

Yes, lets speak about arbitrage.  Being a former fund manager for over ten years, when you simplify the dynamics of market trading, be it arbitrage or whatever, as a 'basic level of automation,' then I become wary of your business model.  It shows your inexperience, and quite frankly, immaturity and lack of discipline.  Show me your proposed scheme.  Is it strictly lateral arbitrage?  That is, will you exchange zenith coins into BTC then transfer coins to mtgox and sell the BTC into USD?  And then what happens if BTC runs?  You've basically crippled your returns.  And what if you need to purchase BTC and you've purchased at the top of said run and BTC falls?

And again, what are your credentials to even propose that there's a 'basic level of automation' which can enable arbitrage opportunities?  Who's the trading team?  Or are the devs, who are supposed to be working on projects, going to have to spend their time doing something outside their level of expertise?  I can go on and on...

It is clear the model for your coin is ill-advised.

As you say, there are clearly some level of risk with regards to arbitradge and a potential to take on loses.   Not every strategy may work long term. 

Howwever, this model is much better than any of the other coins that are out there.   What value do they provide other than serve as an indirect way to mine BTC or LTC?

[eagleEye]

Your model fails, because "retaining" 50% coins for "investemen", stakers of this coin will be ... the half of rich than another coin without this "innovative" "50% coins retained artifact".  Btw, nice try .

[mercSuey]

It seems to me 'market making' will be the primary activity, other than development projects, for the 50% of coins.  Yet, I see no finance team to complement the dev team.  You show no credentials or resume, hide behind an avatar like 99.9% of other users on this forum, and somehow we're supposed to be comfortable with the idea your skills as an arbitrageur and capital/finance manager will provide positive ROI for 50% of mined coins?  How in the world is this different than banks using deposits so poorly that once the market turns against them (eg. mortgage market) even slightly, they will need a bail out?  Congrats, you have invented the open source version of this financial nonsense.  Except there is no central governing entity to bail out zenith coin.  It will just fail, leaving a wasteful carbon footprint and nothing more.  This is laughable.  And all transparency will do is allow us to better see you risk assets and, consequently, DESTROY future development projects.  Your 'market making' activities will have the exact opposite effect of creating incentive for the devs.  I repeat, this is laughable.

Let's speak about arbitrage here for a second.  Current crypto markets are extremely inefficient, so any basic level of automation can easily profit out of this inefficiency.

Yes, lets speak about arbitrage.  Being a former fund manager for over ten years, when you simplify the dynamics of market trading, be it arbitrage or whatever, as a 'basic level of automation,' then I become wary of your business model.  It shows your inexperience, and quite frankly, immaturity and lack of discipline.  Show me your proposed scheme.  Is it strictly lateral arbitrage?  That is, will you exchange zenith coins into BTC then transfer coins to mtgox and sell the BTC into USD?  And then what happens if BTC runs?  You've basically crippled your returns.  And what if you need to purchase BTC and you've purchased at the top of said run and BTC falls?

And again, what are your credentials to even propose that there's a 'basic level of automation' which can enable arbitrage opportunities?  Who's the trading team?  Or are the devs, who are supposed to be working on projects, going to have to spend their time doing something outside their level of expertise?  I can go on and on...

It is clear the model for your coin is ill-advised.

As you say, there are clearly some level of risk with regards to arbitradge and a potential to take on loses.   Not every strategy may work long term. 

Howwever, this model is much better than any of the other coins that are out there.   What value do they provide other than serve as an indirect way to mine BTC or LTC?

This is the third time you've ignored my inquiries into your credentials as a capital manager and the details of who the trading/finance team is.  It is clear there is no trading team.  And it is safe to assume your resume lacks any experience in capital management.  A coin is only as good as its devs and their requisite skills.  So to answer your question as to what value do other altcoins provide, apparently the same value of zenith coin.  As of right now you're just a seven character string asking everyone to assume your the Warren Buffet of the cryptocoin world.  But I thank you for the chuckle...

[peonminer]

launch in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

[peonminer]

WE are the 50%! Huzzah! Screwed us over before the coin even launched! Fantastic! Original! Newage!

[mr_random]

This guy is the biggest hypocrite ever. He bashed Feathercoin for being a clone etc when it first came out to the point he was almost crying (btce trollbox and on cryptonit). Then it went to the moon and he raged like a little baby non-stop... Now suddenly he wants to release a clone coin and keep half the coins to himself  

[TheSwede75]

Worth Noting: Nothing is stopping developers from taking the ENTIRE 50% of the 'fund' and treating it just like a premine scam, selling the entire stock at market price, keeping the BTC/LTC for themselves and killing off the coin for a profit.

[TheSwede75]

Launch Date June 1, 2013

Whats with the super-vague launch 'time'. 'Sometime June 1st is a 24 hour window, not accounting for time zones etc'.

[imginy]

I asked on btce but I will ask again can you have a mining pool ready for release and give me the gmt time for starting thanks

[solracx]

This guy is the biggest hypocrite ever. He bashed Feathercoin when it first came out to the point he was almost crying (btce trollbox and on cryptonit). Then it went to the moon and he raged like a little baby non-stop... Now suddenly he wants to release a clone coin and keep half the coins to himself 

Feathercoin deserved to be exposed:

(1) Non unique block chain
(2) Rigged insta-mine.  1.6 million coins in 3 hours.  One block every 5 seconds.
(3) Non-existent developer support.

and currently

(4) 2 hour block confirmation times.

ZenithCoin is transparent about the nature of the coin.   If you like the terms, then participate.   It does not advertise one thing (1 minute per block) and do something else (5 seconds per block).

So if you are happy with your Feathercoin, then best of luck to you!

[solracx]

Launch Date June 1, 2013

Whats with the super-vague launch 'time'. 'Sometime June 1st is a 24 hour window, not accounting for time zones etc'.

Folks, there's no insta-mine here,   it will not matter if you are 24 hours late to the party.   

This coin is designed to be sustainable in the long term.   So even if only a few miners are interested, then that should be perfectly acceptable.    We don't even care if it even trades in an exchange.  There is no rush to list it!  Don't mine if you have an expectation that we would list the coin quickly in the exchange.   We could do the same thing another coin (PXC) did,  request a de-listing.

We don't want anyone to pay too much for the coin, we want the coin to appreciate on its on merit and not some pump and dump scheme.   

[solracx]

Worth Noting: Nothing is stopping developers from taking the ENTIRE 50% of the 'fund' and treating it just like a premine scam, selling the entire stock at market price, keeping the BTC/LTC for themselves and killing off the coin for a profit.

Nothing stops the developers or the miners from selling off the coin.   Isn't that what happened to FTC, CHN, etc?  Nothing stopped the miners who mined 1.6 million coins in 2 hours at zero difficulty from selling.   Of course, what's their incentive on holding on the coin? 

The 50% split is meant to be a balance, a kind of standoff.   The developers trust that the miners will not sell off the coin, the miners trust that the developer do not sell of the coin.   Mutual trust, mutual self destruction.

The investors however are going to watch the behavior of both parties.   If they aren't cooperating, then the coin isn't going to go anywhere.    Kind of like a Nash equilibrium.

[solracx]

It seems to me 'market making' will be the primary activity, other than development projects, for the 50% of coins.  Yet, I see no finance team to complement the dev team.  You show no credentials or resume, hide behind an avatar like 99.9% of other users on this forum, and somehow we're supposed to be comfortable with the idea your skills as an arbitrageur and capital/finance manager will provide positive ROI for 50% of mined coins?  How in the world is this different than banks using deposits so poorly that once the market turns against them (eg. mortgage market) even slightly, they will need a bail out?  Congrats, you have invented the open source version of this financial nonsense.  Except there is no central governing entity to bail out zenith coin.  It will just fail, leaving a wasteful carbon footprint and nothing more.  This is laughable.  And all transparency will do is allow us to better see you risk assets and, consequently, DESTROY future development projects.  Your 'market making' activities will have the exact opposite effect of creating incentive for the devs.  I repeat, this is laughable.

Let's speak about arbitrage here for a second.  Current crypto markets are extremely inefficient, so any basic level of automation can easily profit out of this inefficiency.

Yes, lets speak about arbitrage.  Being a former fund manager for over ten years, when you simplify the dynamics of market trading, be it arbitrage or whatever, as a 'basic level of automation,' then I become wary of your business model.  It shows your inexperience, and quite frankly, immaturity and lack of discipline.  Show me your proposed scheme.  Is it strictly lateral arbitrage?  That is, will you exchange zenith coins into BTC then transfer coins to mtgox and sell the BTC into USD?  And then what happens if BTC runs?  You've basically crippled your returns.  And what if you need to purchase BTC and you've purchased at the top of said run and BTC falls?

And again, what are your credentials to even propose that there's a 'basic level of automation' which can enable arbitrage opportunities?  Who's the trading team?  Or are the devs, who are supposed to be working on projects, going to have to spend their time doing something outside their level of expertise?  I can go on and on...

It is clear the model for your coin is ill-advised.

As you say, there are clearly some level of risk with regards to arbitradge and a potential to take on loses.   Not every strategy may work long term. 

Howwever, this model is much better than any of the other coins that are out there.   What value do they provide other than serve as an indirect way to mine BTC or LTC?

This is the third time you've ignored my inquiries into your credentials as a capital manager and the details of who the trading/finance team is.  It is clear there is no trading team.  And it is safe to assume your resume lacks any experience in capital management.  A coin is only as good as its devs and their requisite skills.  So to answer your question as to what value do other altcoins provide, apparently the same value of zenith coin.  As of right now you're just a seven character string asking everyone to assume your the Warren Buffet of the cryptocoin world.  But I thank you for the chuckle...

We intent to bring on board an individual experienced in HFT and another individual experienced in Energy Trading.

Over time, we may solicit more expertise.

But at this time, the core team are mostly software developers.

[ondratra]

so basicly Litecoin with 50% Freicoin like foundation or did I miss anything?

[Hydroponica]

So, instead of a premine, he just takes %50 of the miner's coins 

You can look it another way,  half of all newly minted coins go to the miners, the other half go to coin development.

Or 50% go to operations, 50% go to development.

Miners enable the coin to operate on a daily basis.
Development creates new value for the coin over time.

I don't know you. How do I know, you won't just dump that %50 on an exchange, and laugh your way to the bank?

[mercSuey]

Worth Noting: Nothing is stopping developers from taking the ENTIRE 50% of the 'fund' and treating it just like a premine scam, selling the entire stock at market price, keeping the BTC/LTC for themselves and killing off the coin for a profit.

Nothing stops the developers or the miners from selling off the coin.   Isn't that what happened to FTC, CHN, etc?  Nothing stopped the miners who mined 1.6 million coins in 2 hours at zero difficulty from selling.   Of course, what's their incentive on holding on the coin?  

The 50% split is meant to be a balance, a kind of standoff.   The developers trust that the miners will not sell off the coin, the miners trust that the developer do not sell of the coin.   Mutual trust, mutual self destruction.

The investors however are going to watch the behavior of both parties.   If they aren't cooperating, then the coin isn't going to go anywhere.    Kind of like a Nash equilibrium.

Your logic is flawed.  According to the canonical example of the Prisoner's Dilemma, both prisoners (miners and devs) will confess (dump their coins) even when it might seem in their best interest to not confess (dump their coins).  The Nash equilibrium is both sides dumping their coins!  There will be no waiting and watching the other side because that will cost them if they do.  As mentioned above by someone else, nothing is stopping you from dumping your coins, no different if it was premined, instamined, or freaking datamined.

[mercSuey]

It seems to me 'market making' will be the primary activity, other than development projects, for the 50% of coins.  Yet, I see no finance team to complement the dev team.  You show no credentials or resume, hide behind an avatar like 99.9% of other users on this forum, and somehow we're supposed to be comfortable with the idea your skills as an arbitrageur and capital/finance manager will provide positive ROI for 50% of mined coins?  How in the world is this different than banks using deposits so poorly that once the market turns against them (eg. mortgage market) even slightly, they will need a bail out?  Congrats, you have invented the open source version of this financial nonsense.  Except there is no central governing entity to bail out zenith coin.  It will just fail, leaving a wasteful carbon footprint and nothing more.  This is laughable.  And all transparency will do is allow us to better see you risk assets and, consequently, DESTROY future development projects.  Your 'market making' activities will have the exact opposite effect of creating incentive for the devs.  I repeat, this is laughable.

Let's speak about arbitrage here for a second.  Current crypto markets are extremely inefficient, so any basic level of automation can easily profit out of this inefficiency.

Yes, lets speak about arbitrage.  Being a former fund manager for over ten years, when you simplify the dynamics of market trading, be it arbitrage or whatever, as a 'basic level of automation,' then I become wary of your business model.  It shows your inexperience, and quite frankly, immaturity and lack of discipline.  Show me your proposed scheme.  Is it strictly lateral arbitrage?  That is, will you exchange zenith coins into BTC then transfer coins to mtgox and sell the BTC into USD?  And then what happens if BTC runs?  You've basically crippled your returns.  And what if you need to purchase BTC and you've purchased at the top of said run and BTC falls?

And again, what are your credentials to even propose that there's a 'basic level of automation' which can enable arbitrage opportunities?  Who's the trading team?  Or are the devs, who are supposed to be working on projects, going to have to spend their time doing something outside their level of expertise?  I can go on and on...

It is clear the model for your coin is ill-advised.

As you say, there are clearly some level of risk with regards to arbitradge and a potential to take on loses.   Not every strategy may work long term. 

Howwever, this model is much better than any of the other coins that are out there.   What value do they provide other than serve as an indirect way to mine BTC or LTC?

This is the third time you've ignored my inquiries into your credentials as a capital manager and the details of who the trading/finance team is.  It is clear there is no trading team.  And it is safe to assume your resume lacks any experience in capital management.  A coin is only as good as its devs and their requisite skills.  So to answer your question as to what value do other altcoins provide, apparently the same value of zenith coin.  As of right now you're just a seven character string asking everyone to assume your the Warren Buffet of the cryptocoin world.  But I thank you for the chuckle...

We intent to bring on board an individual experienced in HFT and another individual experienced in Energy Trading.

Over time, we may solicit more expertise.

But at this time, the core team are mostly software developers.

Oh so you plan to use the 50% for your own HFT operations and yet we're supposed to take the published trading records in good faith, right?  This is hilarious.  Here, do yourself a favor, get this trading team of yours together, whip up a trading business model, go to btct.com and file for a debt offering.  Repay your debtors interest/dividend payments via your trading profits.  You'll see this is more viable and your fiduciary duties and obligations will be contractual (though still not legally binding, since btct.com makes it clear everything is virtually a game).  Using a cryptocoin for your HFT ops guarantees nothing for either side.

[solracx]

Worth Noting: Nothing is stopping developers from taking the ENTIRE 50% of the 'fund' and treating it just like a premine scam, selling the entire stock at market price, keeping the BTC/LTC for themselves and killing off the coin for a profit.

Nothing stops the developers or the miners from selling off the coin.   Isn't that what happened to FTC, CHN, etc?  Nothing stopped the miners who mined 1.6 million coins in 2 hours at zero difficulty from selling.   Of course, what's their incentive on holding on the coin?  

The 50% split is meant to be a balance, a kind of standoff.   The developers trust that the miners will not sell off the coin, the miners trust that the developer do not sell of the coin.   Mutual trust, mutual self destruction.

The investors however are going to watch the behavior of both parties.   If they aren't cooperating, then the coin isn't going to go anywhere.    Kind of like a Nash equilibrium.

Your logic is flawed.  According to the canonical example of the Prisoner's Dilemma, both prisoners (miners and devs) will confess (dump their coins) even when it might seem in their best interest to not confess (dump their coins).  The Nash equilibrium is both sides dumping their coins!  There will be no waiting and watching the other side because that will cost them if they do.  As mentioned above by someone else, nothing is stopping you from dumping your coins, no different if it was premined, instamined, or freaking datamined.

By your logic, every shareholder of a stock should sell his holding at the opportunity at an IPO.   If the Devs believe their will be value in their contributions, then they will hold.   Let us examine a very similar coin,  Freicoin with 80% going to the devs... look at the block chain.  It is barely spent.

If however, if the devs entered in this endeavor in the manner of FTC.  Then the devs have no confidence in their ability to improve its worth under than the initial hype.   So they sell.... and leave everyone else a bagholder.

[solracx]

It seems to me 'market making' will be the primary activity, other than development projects, for the 50% of coins.  Yet, I see no finance team to complement the dev team.  You show no credentials or resume, hide behind an avatar like 99.9% of other users on this forum, and somehow we're supposed to be comfortable with the idea your skills as an arbitrageur and capital/finance manager will provide positive ROI for 50% of mined coins?  How in the world is this different than banks using deposits so poorly that once the market turns against them (eg. mortgage market) even slightly, they will need a bail out?  Congrats, you have invented the open source version of this financial nonsense.  Except there is no central governing entity to bail out zenith coin.  It will just fail, leaving a wasteful carbon footprint and nothing more.  This is laughable.  And all transparency will do is allow us to better see you risk assets and, consequently, DESTROY future development projects.  Your 'market making' activities will have the exact opposite effect of creating incentive for the devs.  I repeat, this is laughable.

Let's speak about arbitrage here for a second.  Current crypto markets are extremely inefficient, so any basic level of automation can easily profit out of this inefficiency.

Yes, lets speak about arbitrage.  Being a former fund manager for over ten years, when you simplify the dynamics of market trading, be it arbitrage or whatever, as a 'basic level of automation,' then I become wary of your business model.  It shows your inexperience, and quite frankly, immaturity and lack of discipline.  Show me your proposed scheme.  Is it strictly lateral arbitrage?  That is, will you exchange zenith coins into BTC then transfer coins to mtgox and sell the BTC into USD?  And then what happens if BTC runs?  You've basically crippled your returns.  And what if you need to purchase BTC and you've purchased at the top of said run and BTC falls?

And again, what are your credentials to even propose that there's a 'basic level of automation' which can enable arbitrage opportunities?  Who's the trading team?  Or are the devs, who are supposed to be working on projects, going to have to spend their time doing something outside their level of expertise?  I can go on and on...

It is clear the model for your coin is ill-advised.

As you say, there are clearly some level of risk with regards to arbitradge and a potential to take on loses.   Not every strategy may work long term. 

Howwever, this model is much better than any of the other coins that are out there.   What value do they provide other than serve as an indirect way to mine BTC or LTC?

This is the third time you've ignored my inquiries into your credentials as a capital manager and the details of who the trading/finance team is.  It is clear there is no trading team.  And it is safe to assume your resume lacks any experience in capital management.  A coin is only as good as its devs and their requisite skills.  So to answer your question as to what value do other altcoins provide, apparently the same value of zenith coin.  As of right now you're just a seven character string asking everyone to assume your the Warren Buffet of the cryptocoin world.  But I thank you for the chuckle...

We intent to bring on board an individual experienced in HFT and another individual experienced in Energy Trading.

Over time, we may solicit more expertise.

But at this time, the core team are mostly software developers.

Oh so you plan to use the 50% for your own HFT operations and yet we're supposed to take the published trading records in good faith, right?  This is hilarious.  Here, do yourself a favor, get this trading team of yours together, whip up a trading business model, go to btct.com and file for a debt offering.  Repay your debtors interest/dividend payments via your trading profits.  You'll see this is more viable and your fiduciary duties and obligations will be contractual (though still not legally binding, since btct.com makes it clear everything is virtually a game).  Using a cryptocoin for your HFT ops guarantees nothing for either side.

At this time we are not at liberty to devulge the nature of the services we are creating.   Give it time and you will appreciate the novelty, uniqueness and profitability of the approach.