[ANN] White-Board Coin Development [NoirBits]

[barwizi]

I have shelved my idea of a crypto-currency until the storm passes.   But i'd like to keep up the development process.

The name is still up for debate. I currently call it Noirbit

There is really no fair coin in terms of mining, someone always has more hash than you or got the client before you, or has a better connection than you. The factors are too many, and the trade offs sometimes worsen the situation.

The sudden influx of coins has made a mess of this forum and i am not going to add to this mess. I had an idea and had hoped to release by 1 june, however **** happens. So i'd like to hear feedback while i go back to the drawing board.

These were the intended features.

- 180 second target block time, this has proven to not be too affected by network latency.
- 4 hour difficulty adjust that works with another condition that changes diff after 120 blocks.
- Starting difficulty of .5 , i know its high, but yeah  
- Algorithm sha-512 or scrypt-jane (Yacoin) The sha-512 would keep ASIC's out for a while, FPGA's and ASIC's are part of evolution, i cant completely prevent it, but i can slow it down to manageable rate.
- Block reward proportionate to difficulty, (if i fail, i'll ask for help on this one) starting reward will be 5 "bits"
- I figure total coins should be 8 mil. This coin runs out after a while, and instead of further mining, holders of coins will see them gain interest.
- Check blocks or "King Blocks" will have double reward, apart from being a bonus to miners, they act as security checks to maintain chain intergrity.
-Testnet chain running concurrently on my servers that will be used for development of more security and innovation.
 
These are some of the small ideas in mind. I have been following these new alt coins and i'd like to borrow some ideas.

- Either the first blocks have meager rewards or no reward at all while the community prepares. 8 hour period to allow worldwide prep.
- Early blocks will gain 0.5 more interest than later blocks. People always speak ill of early adopters, i think they are ok, as they are the ones who get the coin going in the first place. This will be the thank you for their efforts. (if it wasnt for the early adopters of bitcoin, would that beta have been a success?)
- The pre- mine will be a single block of 4000 "bits" which i state clearly is for myself, i think if the community sees value in this currency then the bounties should be community funded. Attempting to fool people by stating that a premine is for bounties is under-handed and will devalue my ideas.
- I hope to have 5 running pools, each with a different pay-out system to allow users choice.
- Any other coin i develop will be merged mined with this to ensure simplicity of function.
- There shall be no price setting, the market decides use and price. i would ask however that all exchanges wait 4 days after release to even consider it. I do not intend for this to be pump and dump.  
- Mobile wallet, as you know bitcoin and litecoin have them, i would release one if i see the coin taking a firm hold in the market. I am unfamiliar with web-wallets those i'd leave to the community.
- I intend to be a an active OP and will continue development of the coin, may add some members to the dev team and community suggestions are valued.
- Instamine and Botnets and GPU farms are parts of the trade, i am working to try and mitigate the effect, but frankly, there is always someone with more hashing power.
- I believe the escrow service and private trade sites are good ideas but they are gimmicks deviating from the main idea and so loose value quickly.

Windows Client will be compiled by me only

After the wallet stealing fiasco, i'd rather not get dishonored.

Any construcitve ideas are welcome, and btw, i will not release this coin until the shit storm is over.

[mullick]

Yay some innovation. Well not innovation but something good. Maybe let the community decide on certain factors?

[barwizi]

Yes, that is the point, i'm fed up with these ****coins, i'd like to have a part in making a real alt that has long term life span, innovation and has stability.

[mullick]

Sadly it may be a while till the storm is over. Im learning more and more about programming so maybe by the time its out ill be able to contribute

[barwizi]

it would be great to have a large-ish dev team that covers all the corners and really pushes a coin to the front. True it will take a while, but it's also good as it gives the discussion a lot of time to develop and refine ideas.

[barwizi]

hahaha, please all suggestions should be on the thread, Pms make it seem like they are my ideas only.

[anderl]

innovation 1 - integrate exchanges into the network
innovation 2 - balance coin inflation rate with exchange demand.

[barwizi]

What would be the benefit of that?

[Impaler]

Most of your innovation is just rules for fair-launching of any coin or a combination of features from other coins, I'd recommend you join and assist a development team that actually has some major improvements on its plate, such as Netcoin.

[Impaler]

innovation 1 - integrate exchanges into the network
innovation 2 - balance coin inflation rate with exchange demand.

barwizi:  If you can't see the benefit of those two features you don't have much business developing a coin, as solving those issues would give us the holy-grail of crypto-currency a stable value.

[ondratra]

surely wait until the shitcoin storm ends then you might have chance i would personally mine such coin

[barwizi]

innovation 1 - integrate exchanges into the network
innovation 2 - balance coin inflation rate with exchange demand.

barwizi:  If you can't see the benefit of those two features you don't have much business developing a coin, as solving those issues would give us the holy-grail of crypto-currency a stable value.

don't make suggestions you can't back up. explain to us why that is innovative, throwing bullet points and pretending to be smart says otherwise.

Trying to balance coin inflation and demand is like trying to set prices and interest, that is not the purpose of crypto-currency, in a way you are suggesting a form of market control which is  self-defeating. If you know what "free market" means, you'd understand that it's the markets forces that decide on those factors and any tampering with that mechanism is trade control, which will cause wild fluctuations in price and availablity, making for an unstable medium of exchange. Please consider reading up on how markets work and maybe we can discuss the merits of such a system on a global scale.

[anderl]

innovation 1 - integrate exchanges into the network
innovation 2 - balance coin inflation rate with exchange demand.

barwizi:  If you can't see the benefit of those two features you don't have much business developing a coin, as solving those issues would give us the holy-grail of crypto-currency a stable value.

don't make suggestions you can't back up. explain to us why that is innovative, throwing bullet points and pretending to be smart says otherwise.

Trying to balance coin inflation and demand is like trying to sent prices and interest, that is not the purpose of crypto-currency, in a way you are suggesting a form of market control which is  self-defeating. If you know what "free market" mean, you'd understand that it's the markets that decide on those factors and any tampering with that mechanism is trade control.

production of coins faster than the rate they are transacted is a form of price control.  you are effectively destroying the value of the coins by producing them.  creating new coins by mining them is a form of price control.  if you do not want price control in your coin simply do not provide block rewards.  simple as that.

I assumed that this thread was a brain storming session.  if you mean to attack a couple ideas immediately before trying to see what value they have then why should I bother going into them any further.

[Hydroponica]

I respect that you are holding off during the shit storm

I figure total coins should be 8 mil. This coin runs out after a while, and instead of further mining, holders of coins will see them gain interest.

Now, its my understanding, that, when it runs out of mineable coins, the network will screech to a halt. No blocks, means no miners. No miners, means no confirmations. No confirmations, no transactions. Coins can't be moved around. Thoughts?

[anderl]

I'll expound on inflation rate vs exchange rate.  when I mean exchange rate I do not mean price.  I mean rate of exchange.  The rate of transactions.

Why produce more coins going forward if the coins you currently have are not trading well.  You need to measure transaction rates not hashing power to determine if you will generate more rewards.  That will provide more stability in that traders will be more likely to hold something that will not devalue itself over time .

I started a thread here on concepts for coin features to try to balance or offset coin inflation rates.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=219568

[anderl]

I respect that you are holding off during the shit storm

I figure total coins should be 8 mil. This coin runs out after a while, and instead of further mining, holders of coins will see them gain interest.

Now, its my understanding, that, when it runs out of mineable coins, the network will screech to a halt. No blocks, means no miners. No miners, means no confirmations. No confirmations, no transactions. Coins can't be moved around. Thoughts?

Correct but it is assumed that miners would keep mining for the network fees.

[barwizi]

i do not attack ideas, i asked for the reasons why this is viewed as innovation, if you look at the current state of affairs between monetary policies and fiscal policies manipulating exchange rates and inflation you will realize the fallacy in that line of thought (in my opinion). There is a lot of wealth in the world, and if we were to try and create a crypto-currency the factors involved would first lead to hyper-inflation as the market demands more and as they gain more uses, this would continue until we reach a balance, at which time we would reach a balance and then know the actual value of the currency and what it can achieve. What you are talking about is called deterministic monetary collusion, where by setting such parameters we essentially make miners rich yet that defeats the purpose of wide spread adoption. Such thoughts are novel when we have other forms of backing for the currency, but we dont, ergo the market should decide unril we find a crypto that can back it's self. Today if the price of bitcoin fell to ten cents, all the cryptos would fail and it would be essentialy worthless in real world terms. A currency nomatter if it is paper, rocks or zeros in your wallet must have a measure of accepted value worldwide for it to be deemed acceptable, in the old days, paper money represented a share of gold, ergo gold (accepted everywhere) was the backer. We cannot back cryptos with existing currencies of countries because they are susceptible to any changes in that particular economy.

That is how money works, so for us to begin attempting to meddle with money supply issues, we would end up exactly where we are now. The only factor is the total limit of the number of coins, which are then sub0divisible. When you factor these numbers in, you will see what i speak of, if a  large group invested today and decided to make Yacoin their currency, the demand would be high, price would spike and more miners will mine, up till the market is satisfied. See the bitcoin bubble of april.

[barwizi]

I respect that you are holding off during the shit storm

I figure total coins should be 8 mil. This coin runs out after a while, and instead of further mining, holders of coins will see them gain interest.

Now, its my understanding, that, when it runs out of mineable coins, the network will screech to a halt. No blocks, means no miners. No miners, means no confirmations. No confirmations, no transactions. Coins can't be moved around. Thoughts?

for you to trade , you use your wallet, it counts as a node. Also miners will mine for the interest and node fees.

[anderl]

i do not attack ideas, i asked for the reasons why this is viewed as innovation, if you look at the current state of affairs between monetary policies and fiscal policies manipulating exchange rates and inflation you will realize the fallacy in that line of thought (in my opinion). There is a lot of wealth in the world, and if we were to try and create a crypto-currency the factors involved would first lead to hyper-inflation as the market demands more and as they gain more uses, this would continue until we reach a balance, at which time we would reach a balance and then know the actual value of the currency and what it can achieve. What you are talking about is called deterministic monetary collusion, where by setting such parameters we essentially make miners rich yet that defeats the purpose of wide spread adoption. Such thoughts are novel when we have other forms of backing for the currency, but we dont, ergo the market should decide unril we find a crypto that can back it's self. Today if the price of bitcoin fell to ten cents, all the cryptos would fail and it would be essentialy worthless in real world terms. A currency nomatter if it is paper, rocks or zeros in your wallet must have a measure of accepted value worldwide for it to be deemed acceptable, in the old days, paper money represented a share of gold, ergo gold (accepted everywhere) was the backer. We cannot back cryptos with existing currencies of countries because they are susceptible to any changes in that particular economy.

That is how money works, so for us to begin attempting to meddle with money supply issues, we would end up exactly where we are now. The only factor is the total limit of the number of coins, which are then sub0divisible. When you factor these numbers in, you will see what i speak of, if a  large group invested today and decided to make Yacoin their currency, the demand would be high, price would spike and more miners will mine, up till the market is satisfied. See the bitcoin bubble of april.

you are meddling with money supply issues by producing another coin.  you are meddling with money supply issues when you set a specific block reward.  Don't you think that all the issues surrounding premining, instamining and fair starts is a for of money supply control?

You can't hold yourself to your position when you can't see yourself from everyone else.  I"m not stating that the current economic system is healthy, fair or wrong.  All I can say is that I will not discount thousands of years of monetary policies that have lead to this point int time because I do not like the current one.  Better to investigate money supply control and see what you can learn from it.

[barwizi]

I respect that you are holding off during the shit storm

I figure total coins should be 8 mil. This coin runs out after a while, and instead of further mining, holders of coins will see them gain interest.

Now, its my understanding, that, when it runs out of mineable coins, the network will screech to a halt. No blocks, means no miners. No miners, means no confirmations. No confirmations, no transactions. Coins can't be moved around. Thoughts?

Correct but it is assumed that miners would keep mining for the network fees.

i'll read through your ideas and explanations, are you a coder? That is one issue we always forget to consider, My thoughts on the next gen of alts is to basically start from scratch, writing the entire code myself. It may take half a month or two if i use the main.cpp for references, (the one everyone has raped) to have a fully functional code. And due too the untrustworthy nature of some of the individuals on this forum, it makes it hard to have a large dev team of up to ten members.