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Author Topic: infinite increasing of the chain size  (Read 3567 times)
bitcoinex
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December 10, 2010, 09:02:55 PM
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Tell me, me one why bothers infinite (!) increasing of the chain size?

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MoonShadow
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December 10, 2010, 09:33:47 PM
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Tell me, me one why bothers infinite (!) increasing of the chain size?

This sentence doesn't parse in English.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 10, 2010, 09:35:29 PM
 #3

Tell me, me one why bothers infinite (!) increasing of the chain size?

This sentence doesn't parse in English.

It does parse, the AST just looks a little funny

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December 10, 2010, 09:37:45 PM
 #4

Tell me, me one why bothers infinite (!) increasing of the chain size?

This sentence doesn't parse in English.

It does parse, the AST just looks a little funny

I think my brain had a kernal panic attack.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 10, 2010, 09:53:56 PM
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Tell me, me one why bothers infinite (!) increasing of the chain size?

This sentence doesn't parse in English.

It does parse, the AST just looks a little funny

I think my brain had a kernal panic attack.

Consider yourself lucky not to be rolling on the floor slobbering with a blue screen in your head.

bitcoinex
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December 10, 2010, 09:54:06 PM
 #6

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

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December 10, 2010, 10:19:00 PM
 #7

I see.

Why would you be worried about the growth of the blockchain?  It can be pruned of long referenced transactions, it's just not right now.  We wouldn't want it to be right now anyway, because that might hamper the new user 'bootstrapping' issue in the near term.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 10, 2010, 10:35:20 PM
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Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Should be fine, I remember reading something about what creighto mentions about compacting merkle trees in satoshi's PDF

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December 11, 2010, 02:43:22 AM
 #9

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Should be fine, I remember reading something about what creighto mentions about compacting merkle trees in satoshi's PDF

This will make it grow more slowly. Is there some notion of how much more slowly?

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MoonShadow
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December 11, 2010, 03:10:32 AM
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Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Should be fine, I remember reading something about what creighto mentions about compacting merkle trees in satoshi's PDF

This will make it grow more slowly. Is there some notion of how much more slowly?

(80 bytes per block * blockchain total length) + (Average transaction size * current bitcoins in circulation * maximum allowable division * number of transactions deep kept by the pruning algorithim) = realistic top limit on blockchain size at any given time.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
lfm
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December 11, 2010, 09:21:35 AM
 #11

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Well, it IS NOT infinite! It is continuously increasing. It is, and will continue to be, quite finite and seems manageable for the foreseeable future as far as I can tell. Casandras to the contrary.

If you don't think you can handle the load of the chain on your disk space or think the network load is too much for your system you can always fall back to some service like mybitcoin.com or a mtgox account to store your BTC for you.
bitcoinex
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December 11, 2010, 10:40:09 AM
 #12

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Well, it IS NOT infinite! It is continuously increasing. It is, and will continue to be, quite finite and seems manageable for the foreseeable future as far as I can tell. Casandras to the contrary.

If you don't think you can handle the load of the chain on your disk space or think the network load is too much for your system you can always fall back to some service like mybitcoin.com or a mtgox account to store your BTC for you.


This is demagogy.

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FreeMoney
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December 11, 2010, 12:16:09 PM
 #13

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Well, it IS NOT infinite! It is continuously increasing. It is, and will continue to be, quite finite and seems manageable for the foreseeable future as far as I can tell. Casandras to the contrary.

If you don't think you can handle the load of the chain on your disk space or think the network load is too much for your system you can always fall back to some service like mybitcoin.com or a mtgox account to store your BTC for you.


This is demagogy.

There might be a language issue here. No amount of data will ever be infinite, maybe you mean it will grow indefinitely.

Lfm is not wrong.

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FreeMoney
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December 11, 2010, 12:17:53 PM
 #14

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Should be fine, I remember reading something about what creighto mentions about compacting merkle trees in satoshi's PDF

This will make it grow more slowly. Is there some notion of how much more slowly?

(80 bytes per block * blockchain total length) + (Average transaction size * current bitcoins in circulation * maximum allowable division * number of transactions deep kept by the pruning algorithim) = realistic top limit on blockchain size at any given time.

Yeah, I was just curious about the size of the benefit of the pruning algorithm. It's probably complicated, I know.

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bitcoinex
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December 11, 2010, 03:11:37 PM
 #15

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Well, it IS NOT infinite! It is continuously increasing. It is, and will continue to be, quite finite and seems manageable for the foreseeable future as far as I can tell. Casandras to the contrary.

If you don't think you can handle the load of the chain on your disk space or think the network load is too much for your system you can always fall back to some service like mybitcoin.com or a mtgox account to store your BTC for you.


This is demagogy.

There might be a language issue here. No amount of data will ever be infinite, maybe you mean it will grow indefinitely.

Yeah, maybe I have a problem with the language.

I am concerned about the growth of wallet.dat

New bitcoin lottery: probiwon.com
- Может, ты ещё и в Невидимую Руку Рынка веруешь? - Зачем же веровать в то, что можно наблюдать непосредственно?
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December 11, 2010, 07:54:00 PM
 #16

Paraphrase: who else worried about infinite increasing of the chain?

Well, it IS NOT infinite! It is continuously increasing. It is, and will continue to be, quite finite and seems manageable for the foreseeable future as far as I can tell. Casandras to the contrary.

If you don't think you can handle the load of the chain on your disk space or think the network load is too much for your system you can always fall back to some service like mybitcoin.com or a mtgox account to store your BTC for you.


This is demagogy.

There might be a language issue here. No amount of data will ever be infinite, maybe you mean it will grow indefinitely.

Yeah, maybe I have a problem with the language.

I am concerned about the growth of wallet.dat

Oh, I really hadn't guessed that. I thought you were meaning the block chain. There is no automation for cleaning the wallet for it now, but it's fairly trivial. Send all coins to another computer, your own, mtgox, whatever then delete your wallet, open Bitcoin and it will make a new wallet. You will lose access to coins sent to your old addresses in the future. I imagine this is why bitcoinmarket made that announcement about deposit addresses changing a while back.

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December 11, 2010, 08:11:36 PM
 #17

yea, just zip your discarded wallet and check it back in ten years, see if something arrived by chance =)

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December 11, 2010, 11:48:53 PM
 #18

I am concerned about the growth of wallet.dat

I'm sorry, I thought you were speaking of the blockchain.  My wallet.dat is less than 100Kb, and I have it backed up to a (relatively tiny) 128Mb USB thumbdrive.  If your wallet.dat has grown too large, you could just start a new client with a fresh wallet.dat, and keep a backup or two of the old wallet.dat in case someone ends up sending coins to your old addresses.


"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
bitcoinex
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December 12, 2010, 10:48:00 AM
 #19

wallet.dat?! Smiley why I wrote this?

I meant the file that stores the chain of blocks, of course.

It is unclear how we will look into the eyes of users in a year

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December 12, 2010, 11:19:53 AM
 #20

Only generators need to store the entire block chain. Non-generators only need to store the tiny block headers. This is already mostly implemented (see fClient in the source).

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