We need to find out some real use of bitcoin

[johnyj]

For me, the real use of bitcoin is hedging the risk of long term inflation

But, FED's mandate is both low unemployment and low inflation, if they start to tighten, USD might hold its value very well. Although bankers unfairly benefit from the QE process, as long as normal people's life is not heavily affected, no one cares

I just did an international purchase with my CC and it went so smooth, just like purchase an icecream at local shop, I don't think bitcoin will shine in this area

Sure, merchants will get more profit by accepting bitcoin, but currently the amount of people who are able to pay bitcoin is still very small, merchants still get more sale with CC

After all the hype, if bitcoin can't really provide something more practical and useful, it might just get ignored and stay as a geek's hobby, just like a computer game, played and forgotten

Any other thoughts?

[Birdy]

Sure, merchants will get more profit by accepting bitcoin

How is that not a giant benefit?
Some merchants operate on very low margins and are happy about every cent they can gain.


Other usefulness:
- protection against crazy inflation (like in Argentia)
- ability to transfer money from/in every country of this world (or even to the moon once there is internet there )

[johnyj]

Sure, merchants will get more profit by accepting bitcoin

How is that not a giant benefit?
Some merchants operate on very low margins and are happy about every cent they can gain.


Other usefulness:
- protection against crazy inflation (like in Argentia)
- ability to transfer money from/in every country of this world (or even to the moon once there is internet there )

If the margins are very thin then bitcoin is even more unsuitable, the exchange rate fluctuation can wipe out the profit

Maybe for some countries with unstable monetary system it will help, but for established big countries the benefit is not clearly visible

International transfer is a usage, but today you can make purchase abroad with a credit card, as long as you don't buy cars or more expensive stuffs, and there is seldom a occasion that you urgently want to buy a house/car abroad

If something sold exclusively for bitcoin, like Avalon mining rig, then bitcoin can be considered a real usage in this specific area. But currently this kind of pure bitcoin based economy activities only exists in mining equipment area, hope something will grow out of this

[threeip]

-protection from cartels eg Visa, AMEX
-protection from chargebacks so you can actually sell things on the internet and be assured of getting funds
-ability for merchant to buy android phone etc for $40 and start using the transaction network without fees and contracts
-goverment/regulators/criminals cant 'pull the rug' and steal everything from you (as long as precautions are taken)

[benjamindees]

I think Bitcoin will have to focus outside of the US, at least.  Small businesses in the US are completely coddled -- an extra 1-2% margin won't make a bit of difference to them.  And large businesses are at the mercy of the FED.

[threeip]

Small businesses in the US are completely coddled -- an extra 1-2% margin won't make a bit of difference to them.

The guy at the smoke shop won't let me pay on credit card,  due to the fee he's charged. He won't take bitcoin either though, so..

[johnyj]

-ability for merchant to buy android phone etc for $40 and start using the transaction network without fees and contracts

This is a good point, if bitcoin is widely available, it is much better than joining the exiting transaction network, but the problem is bitcoin user base are still very small. People don't get their income in bitcoin's form, that's the biggest obstacle for them to spend bitcoin

When it comes to internet transaction, the trust is the core issue. And this typically require a trustworthy central authority that can act as a middle man, with a well-known and regulated entity to organize the trade, both buyer and seller have much less risk. It almost has nothing to do with the currency used, it's this regulated trustworthy entity make people comfortable to do the trades. Otherwise they will have to manage the risk by themselves, which might cost more than the fee they pay to the middle man

[Birdy]

If the margins are very thin then bitcoin is even more unsuitable, the exchange rate fluctuation can wipe out the profit

But they can accept Bitpay, which still has a way lower margin than credit cards.
Yes, that is not really using Bitcoins, but it will solve the problem that you need more merchants accepting Bitcoins in order to make it more attractive for consumers to buy Bitcoins in order to get more merchants to accept Bitcoins in order to...

[atomium]

this is a great thread, keep inputting more information.

for me the main advantage for someone living in the states where everything can easily be done by cc is that I can pay for products/services to someone in another country and do it fast and effortless, im in the web industry so most merchants abroad take paypal forcefully and do it knowing that there are huge fees and wait times but are forced to use it so those in different countries can buy their products or service. Bitcoin makes it an open market to everyone.

[Lethn]

All you need are people with the balls to accept Bitcoin and people will find uses for it on their own, it will happen eventually, as someone who is setting up selling stuff for Bitcoin entirely I've done the maths and believe me the benefits of Bitcoin far outweigh the bad stuff ( if you can call anonymity and deflation and the like bad ) I would rather get 100 sales in Bitcoin than in paper. The amazing thing is because of how Bitcoin is still maintaining it's value if I make even less than 100 sales I will still be able to expand faster than I ever could in paper and that's because Bitcoin has more purchasing power.

Let's look at current pricing, if I managed to sell say, a game for 0.1 BTC and got 100 sales that would make 10 Bitcoins, selling the Bitcoins on the market even at lows would net me a lot more than paper and if I chose to trade with Bitcoin I have the added advantage of it keeping value after I trade it, at current prices I'd get about £848 going by MTGOX of course. If I sold the same at current paper money prices along with all the crap you have to deal with when it comes to paypal and the like I would only get around £700 and of course there's the problem of tons of regulation regarding the currency as well as the fact that paper money is all being hyper-inflated to nothing so by the time I get any of the money back it would have dropped in value massively. There's of course all the restrictions that are lifted in Bitcoin too, no one tells you what you can do with your money and so on, the only restrictions I can really see out in the open are the fact you need an internet connection and a computer of some sort but that's a small price to pay for having what is pretty much total freedom over your own finances, you can trade with anyone as well regardless of the country they're from.

Trust me, people are interested in Bitcoin, neo-keynesians and the government loyalists out there love to spread bullshit about Bitcoin and I've seen them do it even on these forums, we just have to be patient and wait for people to come to us and be helpful when they need it.

[atomium]

All you need are people with the balls to accept Bitcoin and people will find uses for it on their own, it will happen eventually, as someone who is setting up selling stuff for Bitcoin entirely I've done the maths and believe me the benefits of Bitcoin far outweigh the bad stuff ( if you can call anonymity and deflation and the like bad ) I would rather get 100 sales in Bitcoin than in paper. The amazing thing is because of how Bitcoin is still maintaining it's value if I make even less than 100 sales I will still be able to expand faster than I ever could in paper and that's because Bitcoin has more purchasing power.

Let's look at current pricing, if I managed to sell say, a game for 0.1 BTC and got 100 sales that would make 10 Bitcoins, selling the Bitcoins on the market even at lows would net me a lot more than paper and if I chose to trade with Bitcoin I have the added advantage of it keeping value after I trade it, at current prices I'd get about £848 going by MTGOX of course. If I sold the same at current paper money prices along with all the crap you have to deal with when it comes to paypal and the like I would only get around £700 and of course there's the problem of tons of regulation regarding the currency as well as the fact that paper money is all being hyper-inflated to nothing so by the time I get any of the money back it would have dropped in value massively. There's of course all the restrictions that are lifted in Bitcoin too, no one tells you what you can do with your money and so on, the only restrictions I can really see out in the open are the fact you need an internet connection and a computer of some sort but that's a small price to pay for having what is pretty much total freedom over your own finances, you can trade with anyone as well regardless of the country they're from.

Trust me, people are interested in Bitcoin, neo-keynesians and the government loyalists out there love to spread bullshit about Bitcoin and I've seen them do it even on these forums, we just have to be patient and wait for people to come to us and be helpful when they need it.

AMEN! this was a perfect response, I hope that everyone can reach this and realize the massive impact bitcoin is going to have in the worldwide economy. We all live in a digital age so why cant our currency be digital.

[TippingPoint]

Freedom

[Lethn]

AMEN! this was a perfect response, I hope that everyone can reach this and realize the massive impact bitcoin is going to have in the worldwide economy. We all live in a digital age so why cant our currency be digital.

I haven't even gotten started over the nice features like only needing one password and being able to clearly see all your transactions lol!

[lixiaolai]

buying and selling other "real" currencies is not a "real" use?

[johnyj]

If the margins are very thin then bitcoin is even more unsuitable, the exchange rate fluctuation can wipe out the profit

But they can accept Bitpay, which still has a way lower margin than credit cards.
Yes, that is not really using Bitcoins, but it will solve the problem that you need more merchants accepting Bitcoins in order to make it more attractive for consumers to buy Bitcoins in order to get more merchants to accept Bitcoins in order to...

For a normal consumer:

1. He pay the merchant directly use CC, pay a 4% higher price
2. He buy bitcoin through some local bitcoins exchange, pay 2% spread, and pay the merchant with bitcoin, pay a 1% higher price due to merchant don't want exchange risk and use Bitpay

He would still use CC because of much less exchange hassle. Using bitcoin is like using Euro in sweden, you first go to forex exchange to buy some Euro, and then spend it at some local shops that accept euro, and finally those merchant have to exchange received euro back to swedish kronor... In this process, many time and value is lost due to exchange between different currencies

So I think at retail level bitcoin does not really make people's life simpler. For pure online transaction, exchange might not be a problem, but people still need some powerful entity to provide escrow service and solve the dispute

Bitcoin still function like gold, it is not as convenient as fiat to do the trade with, but works as a reliable medium of saving, a ledger of credit

[johnyj]

All you need are people with the balls to accept Bitcoin and people will find uses for it on their own, it will happen eventually, as someone who is setting up selling stuff for Bitcoin entirely I've done the maths and believe me the benefits of Bitcoin far outweigh the bad stuff ( if you can call anonymity and deflation and the like bad ) I would rather get 100 sales in Bitcoin than in paper. The amazing thing is because of how Bitcoin is still maintaining it's value if I make even less than 100 sales I will still be able to expand faster than I ever could in paper and that's because Bitcoin has more purchasing power.

Let's look at current pricing, if I managed to sell say, a game for 0.1 BTC and got 100 sales that would make 10 Bitcoins, selling the Bitcoins on the market even at lows would net me a lot more than paper and if I chose to trade with Bitcoin I have the added advantage of it keeping value after I trade it, at current prices I'd get about £848 going by MTGOX of course. If I sold the same at current paper money prices along with all the crap you have to deal with when it comes to paypal and the like I would only get around £700 and of course there's the problem of tons of regulation regarding the currency as well as the fact that paper money is all being hyper-inflated to nothing so by the time I get any of the money back it would have dropped in value massively. There's of course all the restrictions that are lifted in Bitcoin too, no one tells you what you can do with your money and so on, the only restrictions I can really see out in the open are the fact you need an internet connection and a computer of some sort but that's a small price to pay for having what is pretty much total freedom over your own finances, you can trade with anyone as well regardless of the country they're from.

Trust me, people are interested in Bitcoin, neo-keynesians and the government loyalists out there love to spread bullshit about Bitcoin and I've seen them do it even on these forums, we just have to be patient and wait for people to come to us and be helpful when they need it.

We all know that from a higher level bitcoin excels, but for most people who don't have so much knowledge in economics and computers, they can't see that benefit. And currently some of the country still have deflation, their fiat money even gained in purchase power, only China have high inflation rate now

[Lethn]

My point is, they will see the benefit if we wait patiently, governments are already setting up their own destruction with hyperinflation, I for instance didn't see much point in studying economics and history until I experienced a financial recession for myself, now I know how to defend against it, it will be the same for a lot of people when it comes to Bitcoin, chances are if we have another Cyprus or Greece people are going to immediately start looking for alternatives.

[Kazimir]

Taking away the power and control over our money from banks and governments, and bringing it back to us, the users, who own the damn money in the first place, seems pretty useful to me.

[Rampion]

Some real use?

What about freedom and monetary independence? How about having the opportunity to get rid of the bankers and financial mafia?

That's a pretty big, revolutionary and REAL use in my book. I would say its the definitive use.

Then, if you want a fast micropayment solution,  well... Use Paypal, Dwolla or the likes.

[johnyj]

My point is, they will see the benefit if we wait patiently, governments are already setting up their own destruction with hyperinflation, I for instance didn't see much point in studying economics and history until I experienced a financial recession for myself, now I know how to defend against it, it will be the same for a lot of people when it comes to Bitcoin, chances are if we have another Cyprus or Greece people are going to immediately start looking for alternatives.

That's true, if the current monetary system run into a disaster, then bitcoin is ready to rescue, but there is also a possibility that nothing happened (Banks gain 1 billion while give you one million, as long as you are satisfied with one million, you might not care about their gain)