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Author Topic: ****** Reduce the risk of PayPal by 99% - Suggested Donation: 1 BTC ******  (Read 12834 times)
virtualfaqs
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June 25, 2011, 04:01:38 AM
 #1

Hello there. I'm a PayPal Fraud Prevention Specialist and I'll teach you all my tricks on how to stop getting scammed by accepting PayPal. I don't guarantee 100% but we will try for 99%! I don't charge for my services because I'd rather stop the scam then for you not to pay my fees and get scammed. But if  you feel I did a good job, feel free to donate!

Suggested Donation: 1 BTC
1Q24Cwjo2oxuBLQKzhuncJ7jWx4Wd6bo61

Thanks!

Read my PayPal Virtual FAQ!
http://virtualfaqs.com/forum/paypal/574-paypal-virtual-faq.html

Most of the answers are already there, but most people have the attention span of a typical BTC trader so feel free to ask questions here.

Disclaimer: I prefer to deal in prevention techniques not after you're scammed as there's little you can do. So if you're not sure, please post here before trading.

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BitCoinsForGold
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June 25, 2011, 11:40:49 AM
 #2

I have a question.

Ive been thinking of receiving payments on papal for some things and don't want any kind of reversible payments.

I looked over your very good faq, but there's one thing i kinda seemed to not see that id been wondering about.

Paying for goods as a "service"

If someone makes a payment to you, for anything, and then pays as a service, and then leaves a comment such as
"Thank you for the software consulting service"
"thanks for completing the consulting"

Would that pretty much make the payment irreversible, being that it was for a service, and they made the comment it was completed?
virtualfaqs
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June 25, 2011, 05:45:14 PM
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I have a question.

Ive been thinking of receiving payments on papal for some things and don't want any kind of reversible payments.

I looked over your very good faq, but there's one thing i kinda seemed to not see that id been wondering about.

Paying for goods as a "service"

If someone makes a payment to you, for anything, and then pays as a service, and then leaves a comment such as
"Thank you for the software consulting service"
"thanks for completing the consulting"

Would that pretty much make the payment irreversible, being that it was for a service, and they made the comment it was completed?

You'd still have problems winning an unauthorized PayPal dispute and credit card chargeback from someone who was dissastisfied with your service "after" sending payment. The only 99.99% non-reversible method is for someone to give you a Money Pak code and you enter it into your PayPal account, but someone could argue that's paying with Money Pak and not really paying with PayPal. There's tons of tricks to decrease the chance of a reversal, but no easy 100% irreversible method that's convenient for the buyer yet. (At least that I know of, but I'm always looking.  Wink)

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BitCoinsForGold
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June 26, 2011, 01:48:42 AM
 #4

I have never trusted paypal since over 5 years ago when i sold some online gold for ultima online. I sold this guy about 20 million gold, and he ended up pulling the "take delivery and reverse" course.

I ended up losing the dispute and my money, and never felt comfortable selling game gold again.
Which is sad, i enjoyed doing that as a hobby
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June 26, 2011, 07:49:41 AM
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I have a question as well.  Would it be feasible for a scammer to create a PayPal account, conduct a couple of transactions and withdraw the money before they are able to dispute it?  Would the buyer be able to get their money back or is it gone for good?

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virtualfaqs
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June 26, 2011, 11:11:33 AM
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I have never trusted paypal since over 5 years ago when i sold some online gold for ultima online. I sold this guy about 20 million gold, and he ended up pulling the "take delivery and reverse" course.

I ended up losing the dispute and my money, and never felt comfortable selling game gold again.
Which is sad, i enjoyed doing that as a hobby

This is exactly why I started Virtual FAQs. New MMORPG sellers don't know how to deal with PayPal scammers. I try to stop this by verifying every person before they're allowed to trade on my forums.

I have a question as well.  Would it be feasible for a scammer to create a PayPal account, conduct a couple of transactions and withdraw the money before they are able to dispute it?  Would the buyer be able to get their money back or is it gone for good?

Nope if the buyer issues a dispute, the seller's account is frozen. Bank transfers are reversed. Even if the money reaches the seller's bank account, there used to be stories about how PayPal was able to take money back from the seller. I'm not sure if they're still allowed to do this. There's conflicting stories.

However there's always the chance, the seller gets away with it. If the funds are not recoverable, then the buyer will not get refunded. PayPal will not take the loss unless...

The buyer files a credit card chargeback. The buyer will get their credit back and PayPal will chase after the seller. If PayPal is unable to recover the funds, PayPal will take the loss.

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virtualfaqs
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June 29, 2011, 10:48:40 PM
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Bumppity bump!

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ryannathans
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June 30, 2011, 12:06:40 AM
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What if the buyer is told to pay and send money as a "gift".

How is it reversible then?
virtualfaqs
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June 30, 2011, 08:54:33 AM
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What if the buyer is told to pay and send money as a "gift".

How is it reversible then?

Easy you can do a gift payment by credit card or unauthorized dispute. Contrary to popular belief, just asking for a gift payment, only stops SNAD and did not receive disputes. No decent PayPal scammer uses those tactics. PayPal may also step in and say, "Looks like a hacked PayPal account. Let's reverse this illegitimate transaction." That will be 1 BTC! Cheesy Ok next question.

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virtualfaqs
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July 10, 2011, 10:13:43 PM
 #10

bump!

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July 11, 2011, 12:14:16 PM
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read this for my way to guarantee proof of bitcoin transaction.

virtualfaqs
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July 14, 2011, 04:26:07 AM
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read this for my way to guarantee proof of bitcoin transaction.

First there's no guaranteed proof. How does someone know the video wasn't tampered with? Credit card companies probably have no idea how bitcoin works so your screenshots or vides are going to be completely meaningless in showing delivery. There's no personal info attached to a bitcoin address. You could show a couple emails but at the end they will still be skeptical. The more you explain bitcoins to a chargeback investigation, the more it sounds like a scam. So your emphasis should be prevention and not post-sale.

Also although I'm pretty sure PayPal doesn't care about buying/selling bitcoin on a small scale, I still don't want to mention it to them as it is a competing online currency.

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Alex Beckenham
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July 14, 2011, 04:30:26 AM
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I still don't want to mention it to them as it is a competing online currency.

PayPal is not a currency, any more than Visa or Mastercard are currencies.

virtualfaqs
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July 14, 2011, 04:39:11 AM
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I still don't want to mention it to them as it is a competing online currency.

PayPal is not a currency, any more than Visa or Mastercard are currencies.


Ok let me issue a correction. I still don't want to mention it to them as bitcoin is an emerging online payment method that PayPal might see as competition.

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nanamin
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July 18, 2011, 02:45:18 AM
 #15

If someone sold Bitbills (http://bitbills.com/) via PayPal and used some kind of certified mail service, would that allow them to accept PayPal payments for Bitcoins without getting scammed?

I'm a 24 year old professional SEO consultant with a background in web development. Due to a neurological disability, I am unable to work in an office. This makes it very difficult for me to find work. If you need SEO consulting or any kind of web or application development, please consider hiring me for the job. I've consulted for major multinational corporate clients and am very good at what I do, and unlike most freelancers I have excellent communication skills.

You can also send a donation: 163Swht3pjV1iW7nQRZ6njuxwGPa5qCd9H
virtualfaqs
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July 19, 2011, 08:24:45 AM
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If someone sold Bitbills (http://bitbills.com/) via PayPal and used some kind of certified mail service, would that allow them to accept PayPal payments for Bitcoins without getting scammed?

That reduces the chance of getting scammed, but it wouldn't stop all scams. Certified mail service would show it was received, but it's very difficult to prove what was actually received. Then on top of that you have to explain to investigators what Bit Bills are. Most likely they're not going to care and just rule for the buyer.

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Keninishna
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July 29, 2011, 07:51:21 AM
 #17

I sold some bitcoins on bitmarket.eu via paypal. Now paypal has put the funds on hold because
Quote
This payment has been selected for review and we have opened an investigation.

This is a security measure meant to protect you from problem transactions.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until the investigation is complete.

Please provide some additional information about this transaction.

Response deadline: Aug 4, 2011

It lists reason as Inquiry by PayPal.

Paypal wants me to provide a tracking number. I'm not too sure how to handle this. The options I have to dispute it are.
Quote
I have not shipped the item and I would like to refund the payment.I can provide proof that the item was shipped through an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page.
What information can you provide?What information can you provide?
I can provide online tracking information.I can upload or fax proof that the item was shipped.
I have refunded the payment for this transaction.None of these apply to me.

Should I just tell paypal its for digital goods? or should I ship something to the buyer and give them that tracking info?
virtualfaqs
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July 31, 2011, 06:23:45 AM
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I sold some bitcoins on bitmarket.eu via paypal. Now paypal has put the funds on hold because
Quote
This payment has been selected for review and we have opened an investigation.

This is a security measure meant to protect you from problem transactions.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until the investigation is complete.

Please provide some additional information about this transaction.

Response deadline: Aug 4, 2011

It lists reason as Inquiry by PayPal.

Paypal wants me to provide a tracking number. I'm not too sure how to handle this. The options I have to dispute it are.
Quote
I have not shipped the item and I would like to refund the payment.I can provide proof that the item was shipped through an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page.
What information can you provide?What information can you provide?
I can provide online tracking information.I can upload or fax proof that the item was shipped.
I have refunded the payment for this transaction.None of these apply to me.

Should I just tell paypal its for digital goods? or should I ship something to the buyer and give them that tracking info?

There's a couple strategies for this.
1. You can put "Virtual Goods" in the shipping number. This about 70% success.
2. Ship something to the buyer. This about 90% success.
These will help you win against PayPal, but
Most likely this is moot because this guy scammed with credit card and going to chargeback.

So PayPal payments are sent directly to the seller on bitcoinmarket.eu huh? That must be the only exchange that still functions like that. Next time send your buyer over to virtualfaqs.com for free verification. I may be able to prevent this from happening. Good luck.

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August 01, 2011, 06:03:32 PM
 #19

hmm I have another user also putting in a dispute with paypal, claiming unauthorized account access. Anyway to tell paypal its for virtual goods? I'm trying to get my dwolla account working so I can just use mtgox lol. Thanks for the help.
virtualfaqs
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August 01, 2011, 08:53:17 PM
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hmm I have another user also putting in a dispute with paypal, claiming unauthorized account access. Anyway to tell paypal its for virtual goods? I'm trying to get my dwolla account working so I can just use mtgox lol. Thanks for the help.

Sure. In the dispute, you can issue a statement and say it was for virtual goods. Against unauthorized account access, you're most likely going to lose. You need to prove you delivered your intangible goods to the real account owner.

Unfortunately, your chances of winning are 1% if not less.

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