occupy taksim

[gurcani]

Are you people following what is happening in Turkey?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22740282

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/world/europe/police-attack-protesters-in-istanbuls-taksim-square.html?ref=world&_r=2&

http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2013/06/01/nuit-blanche-pour-des-milliers-de-stambouliotes-en-colere-contre-le-gouvernement_3422104_3214.html

I am Turkish, but I live abroad. From what I can gather, this will be bigger and bigger at least over the weekend.  People are talking about toppling the government. There is some talk about a possible EU parliement intervention (Turkey is an official EU candidate country).

How do you think this will end? Do you think the EU would actually do something?

I should say, my heart is with the demonstrators. I open the thread to discuss, and maybe post some info about the developments. In case any of you are interested.

[Elwar]

If the US is behind it like in Egypt then the government will fall. Otherwise it will survive.

[gurcani]

If the US is behind it like in Egypt then the government will fall. Otherwise it will survive.

Ah, fatalism... Not the sipirit I expected from this forum.

I don't think the US has anything to do with it. Erdogan had a very friendly meeting recently with Obama, if you want.

[myrkul]

I don't think the US has anything to do with it. Erdogan had a very friendly meeting recently with Obama, if you want.

That doesn't really mean anything. I can show you images of presidents shaking hands and smiling with other leaders, months, or even weeks, sometimes, before the US took down that country.

[gurcani]

That doesn't really mean anything. I can show you images of presidents shaking hands and smiling with other leaders, months, or even weeks, sometimes, before the US took down that country.

Yeah sure.

So you guys don't believe in spontenous self organization of the masses. There is always a hidden hand behind the curtain?

So the bitcoin succeeded because ...?

[myrkul]

That doesn't really mean anything. I can show you images of presidents shaking hands and smiling with other leaders, months, or even weeks, sometimes, before the US took down that country.

Yeah sure.

So you guys don't believe in spontenous self organization of the masses. There is always a hidden hand behind the curtain?

Now, I didn't say that. It's entirely possible that this is a legit mass protest. If so, I wish them luck. But like Elwar said, without the support of the World Police^®, they're not very likely to succeed.

[gurcani]

http://showdiscontent.com/

[myrkul]

I honestly don't know what to make of this picture, it looks like some asshole cops decided to harass some people in a park, and set up a riot line to make sure nobody escaped their attention.

I mean, counting the photographer, there's only 4 people on this side of the riot shields. Maybe the real action is off to the right of frame?

[gurcani]

This was 3-4 days ago I think. before the whole thing started.

It is one of the symbolic images that helped start the riots.

Now it looks more like this:

[myrkul]

Now that is a picture. I recently saw a gallery on Google+ of some pictures with captions detailing what is going on, I'll try to share it here, But I make no guarantees that it will work.

Here is the gallery. (looks like it works OK, let me know if not, and I'll share them here manually)

[gurcani]

Apparently this started with about 50+ people sleeping at the park to protect the trees. Mostly artists, intellectuals etc.

It is the actions of the police that turned it into an all out riot. They tore down the tents, they used tear gas on everyone, they terrorized the whole city (and still continue in some parts of the city). And people got pissed. In the end it was like using antibiotics (unsuccessfully) to fight disease.

Now it is everywhere. There are demonstrations in Ankara, Izmir, Adana, Bursa and other cities...

I've never seen anything like this in my life time.

People started walking from the Asian side last night, and kept coming to the European side in the morning an throughout the day to occupy the Taksim square. In the end the cops had to pull back and leave the square... People are still pouring there. I had news from my friends who went there and got sprayed with tear gas. Even my uncle went there.

[myrkul]

Here's a good one:

[pollen_bit]

'The revolution is now!'

http://www.iamsatoshi.com/information-primary-commodity/

[gurcani]

Here's a good one:

These are people crossing the bridge from the Asian side to the European side to help the people in Taksim square.

Intercontinental solidarity

[Elwar]

So you guys don't believe in spontenous self organization of the masses.

Sure I do, I wish them the best of luck.

But with the lack of purpose and just anger, they will end up just like Occupy Wall Street.

If it were a CIA operation, the work would already be going on behind the scenes to turn the protest into a government take-over. Like Egypt and Iran in '78.

[gurcani]

These guys are clearly not 'organized' for some purpose. No political movement, no ideology. It is really pure frustration by common people against authoritarianism. At least this is what it looks like.

To be frank, I'd doubt that they could topple the government. I am not sure if that is what they want either. I think if the government said "ok we cancel the plan to demolish the park" and pulled the cops back, they may as well go back home.

[myrkul]

These guys are clearly not 'organized' for some purpose. No political movement, no ideology. It is really pure frustration by common people against authoritarianism. At least this is what it looks like.

To be frank, I'd doubt that they could topple the government. I am not sure if that is what they want either. I think if the government said "ok we cancel the plan to demolish the park" and pulled the cops back, they may as well go back home.

And frankly, that would be the best result for all involved. Historically, when a mob topples a government over an unpopular policy, the end result is not good. Now, if they had a goal in mind, something other than inchoate rage, then they might be able to get something done. Probably still end up bad, but at least there's a chance.

[Mike Christ]

And frankly, that would be the best result for all involved. Historically, when a mob topples a government over an unpopular policy, the end result is not good. Now, if they had a goal in mind, something other than inchoate rage, then they might be able to get something done. Probably still end up bad, but at least there's a chance.

Hrmm, most states seem to do a great job keeping anarchism on the hush-hush, so it's not likely they'd try anything.  I'd be utterly shocked if they knew what they were doing:

Education in Turkey is governed by a national system which was established in accordance with the Atatürk Reforms after the Turkish War of Independence. It is a state supervised system designed to produce a skillful professional class for the social and economic institutes of the nation.

With this in mind, it's almost guaranteed they're all just pissed off and have no idea what they really want out of it, aside from showing a whole lot of discontent.

[gurcani]

[gurcani]

Education in Turkey is governed by a national system which was established in accordance with the Atatürk Reforms after the Turkish War of Independence. It is a state supervised system designed to produce a skillful professional class for the social and economic institutes of the nation.

With this in mind, it's almost guaranteed they're all just pissed off and have no idea what they really want out of it, aside from showing a whole lot of discontent.

Except that "Ataturk" was an extreme secularist and the current government has "islamic roots". So what the education system thought to people older than 20-25 is in complete contradiction to the point of view of the current government.

However the current government is successful economically. And they are not really "islamists". They are more like the Christian democrats in Europe, I guess.

So, while I agree, there is some twist.