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Author Topic: Mining is not profitable, but Bitcoins can be...  (Read 2928 times)
WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 08:15:24 AM
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If there is one thing I have learned about Bitcoins, its that mining them is not profitable or worth while. When you factor in all implicit and explicit costs, mining is a terrible loss.

That doesnt mean that you cant make Bitcoins in a profitable manner. It just means that you have to think more outside the box. You cant make money where everybody is trying to make money. You need unique, creative methods that you can scale up.

I have already uncovered a few methods of making bitcoins and cash on autopilot, but I am looking for more. If anybody would like to brainstorm with me and perhaps partner up, please skype me at spamx182 or email me.

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June 25, 2011, 08:18:55 AM
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Actually, Bitcoin is like any other currency in the sense that you'll need to do some work, or provide some kind of good that others will pay for (and you're willing to accept BTC for of course).

WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 08:32:01 AM
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If you factor in your time, it is generally not profitable (unless you can do nothing but minimum wage work, which I assume is not the case)

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June 25, 2011, 08:41:10 AM
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If you factor in your time, it is generally not profitable (unless you can do nothing but minimum wage work, which I assume is not the case)

Factor in your time?  You do know that there is no human work involved in the mining for bitcoins.  You dont literally swing a pick axe.  It is true that electricity costs can cut into profits.  But time?  Just have the computer mine when you don't need to use it.
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June 25, 2011, 08:46:23 AM
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Mining IS profitable.
WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 08:46:44 AM
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Opportunity cost. It takes time and money to set these things up. Time and money that could be spent working on other, more profitable projects.

WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 08:52:51 AM
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If you factor in your time, it is generally not profitable (unless you can do nothing but minimum wage work, which I assume is not the case)

Factor in your time?  You do know that there is no human work involved in the mining for bitcoins.  You dont literally swing a pick axe.  It is true that electricity costs can cut into profits.  But time?  Just have the computer mine when you don't need to use it.
If you factor in your time, it is generally not profitable (unless you can do nothing but minimum wage work, which I assume is not the case)

Sorry for being harsh, I had assumed this was a one-shot thread. Since you're here though-- a little edumacation for ya'.

The time it takes out of your personal day to run your GPU/CPU miner is 0. Maintenance might be required once in a while, but if your error handling is keen-- 0.

The time it takes to set up such a machine in the first place-- assuming the hardware is there, but without drivers or miner app?

3 minutes flat. Raise that to 6 if you aren't satisfied with default settings.

I recently finished version 2.1.22 of my AlgoCalc solutions program. Basically, you pop in a thumbdrive and if autorun is in place, 3 minutes later you've got a silent miner that continuously runs on startup, runs invisibly, only uses non-used CPU/GPU (per miner plugin) with the option for delete protection (kind of like spyware cannot be 'deleted').

Get my app and the licensing it requires (per install), and you can have an install CD/Thumbdrive/fileset that you can put on any computer anywhere and it will act as your personal miner from then on. It is secure because it will not allow incoming connections, but it will connect to my algocalc database to make sure it is licensed, the same database that holds all of your pool mining login information for your convenience.

So this time you're talking about.... since I can add 500 computers a day (if I can find them), and each one can make $1 a day.. what time? You'd be stupid to stop mining. But then again, stupidity is just the lack of education. So I'm educating you.








If this is the most money you can make, then so be it. It isnt profitable for me. I can get higher returns with my time and money.

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June 25, 2011, 08:53:06 AM
 #8

Opportunity cost. It takes time and money to set these things up. Time and money that could be spent working on other, more profitable projects.
It take like a day to setup a mining farm and then it's all profit
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June 25, 2011, 08:56:35 AM
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In b4 you get fired and sued for running non authorized softwares on these computers  Cheesy
WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 08:58:44 AM
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In b4 you get fired and sued for running non authorized softwares on these computers  Cheesy
QFT

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June 25, 2011, 08:59:59 AM
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If you factor in your time, it is generally not profitable (unless you can do nothing but minimum wage work, which I assume is not the case)

Factor in your time?  You do know that there is no human work involved in the mining for bitcoins.  You dont literally swing a pick axe.  It is true that electricity costs can cut into profits.  But time?  Just have the computer mine when you don't need to use it.
If you factor in your time, it is generally not profitable (unless you can do nothing but minimum wage work, which I assume is not the case)

Sorry for being harsh, I had assumed this was a one-shot thread. Since you're here though-- a little edumacation for ya'.

The time it takes out of your personal day to run your GPU/CPU miner is 0. Maintenance might be required once in a while, but if your error handling is keen-- 0.

The time it takes to set up such a machine in the first place-- assuming the hardware is there, but without drivers or miner app?

3 minutes flat. Raise that to 6 if you aren't satisfied with default settings.

I recently finished version 2.1.22 of my AlgoCalc solutions program. Basically, you pop in a thumbdrive and if autorun is in place, 3 minutes later you've got a silent miner that continuously runs on startup, runs invisibly, only uses non-used CPU/GPU (per miner plugin) with the option for delete protection (kind of like spyware cannot be 'deleted').

Get my app and the licensing it requires (per install), and you can have an install CD/Thumbdrive/fileset that you can put on any computer anywhere and it will act as your personal miner from then on. It is secure because it will not allow incoming connections, but it will connect to my algocalc database to make sure it is licensed, the same database that holds all of your pool mining login information for your convenience.

So this time you're talking about.... since I can add 500 computers a day (if I can find them), and each one can make $1 a day.. what time? You'd be stupid to stop mining. But then again, stupidity is just the lack of education. So I'm educating you.


Assuming you're not paying for the electricity of the computers running those stealth installations, that's theft.
You're making other people pay for your profit, without telling them.
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June 25, 2011, 09:02:14 AM
 #12

OP fails at calculations.

If you're using ANY 5xxx or 6xxx series card, it is profitable to mine.  I don't care what your electric costs are, but the price/difficulty ratio isn't yet terrible enough for those who pay the most for electricity to be unprofitable.
em3rgentOrdr
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June 25, 2011, 09:16:09 AM
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If there is one thing I have learned about Bitcoins, its that mining them is not profitable or worth while. When you factor in all implicit and explicit costs, mining is a terrible loss.

That doesnt mean that you cant make Bitcoins in a profitable manner. It just means that you have to think more outside the box. You cant make money where everybody is trying to make money. You need unique, creative methods that you can scale up.

+1. Thank you.  This is the most sane post I have ever read in the Newbie forum.  The market equilibrium profit rate for mining should be close to 0 profit.  Just enough revenue on average to cover the energy, cooling, hardware, and monitoring/setup labor costs plus a small risk premium to account for the uncertainty in mining.  At this point, I strongly advise that Newbies don't waste their time mining unless they are experienced computer hardware specialists.  Instead, please offer goods/services in exchange for bitcoin.  The whole point of bitcoin is that it is designed with the goal that a single person or group can't print currency willy nilly.  

Actually, Bitcoin is like any other currency in the sense that you'll need to do some work, or provide some kind of good that others will pay for (and you're willing to accept BTC for of course).

+1. Thank you again

OP fails at calculations.

If you're using ANY 5xxx or 6xxx series card, it is profitable to mine.  I don't care what your electric costs are, but the price/difficulty ratio isn't yet terrible enough for those who pay the most for electricity to be unprofitable.

Keep in mind the current USD bitcoin value is very speculative, and I don't think the current total market value of all bitcoins currently in existence accurately reflects the size of the bitcoin economy.  Please offer goods and services in exchange for bitcoin instead.  Bitcoin is not about mining for the same exact reason that gold is not about mining.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 09:19:23 AM
 #14

If there is one thing I have learned about Bitcoins, its that mining them is not profitable or worth while. When you factor in all implicit and explicit costs, mining is a terrible loss.

That doesnt mean that you cant make Bitcoins in a profitable manner. It just means that you have to think more outside the box. You cant make money where everybody is trying to make money. You need unique, creative methods that you can scale up.

+1. Thank you.  This is the most sane post I have ever read in the Newbie forum.  The market equilibrium profit rate for mining should be close to 0 profit.  Just enough revenue on average to cover the energy, cooling, hardware, and monitoring/setup labor costs plus a small risk premium to account for the uncertainty in mining.  At this point, I strongly advise that Newbies don't waste their time mining unless they are experienced computer hardware specialists.  Instead, please offer goods/services in exchange for bitcoin.  The whole point of bitcoin is that it is designed with the goal that a single person or group can't print currency willy nilly.  

Actually, Bitcoin is like any other currency in the sense that you'll need to do some work, or provide some kind of good that others will pay for (and you're willing to accept BTC for of course).

+1. Thank you again

OP fails at calculations.

If you're using ANY 5xxx or 6xxx series card, it is profitable to mine.  I don't care what your electric costs are, but the price/difficulty ratio isn't yet terrible enough for those who pay the most for electricity to be unprofitable.

Keep in mind the current USD bitcoin value is very speculative, and I don't think the current total market value of all bitcoins currently in existence accurately reflects the size of the bitcoin economy.  Please offer goods and services in exchange for bitcoin instead.  Bitcoin is not about mining for the same exact reason that gold is not about mining.

Smart post.

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June 25, 2011, 09:27:10 AM
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I recently finished version 2.1.22 of my AlgoCalc solutions program. Basically, you pop in a thumbdrive and if autorun is in place, 3 minutes later you've got a silent miner that continuously runs on startup, runs invisibly, only uses non-used CPU/GPU (per miner plugin) with the option for delete protection (kind of like spyware cannot be 'deleted').


If autorun is on, then they obviously don't know how to secure a computer. They should learn some security basics before they get into bitcoin.
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June 25, 2011, 09:54:56 AM
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Well you need a driver license to drive a car, while a computer require nothing
Mabsark
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June 25, 2011, 10:03:39 AM
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Obvious enough point, but why do you think someone would have to know anything about security to take money in exchange for GPU cycles? The last time you bought a car, did they ask you if you were a good driver? -_-;;

Eveyone using a computer should learn security basics. Using a computer without knowing the basics of security is like driving a car without knowing the highway code (or whatever driving laws are called in your country).

WillMitchell
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June 25, 2011, 10:10:36 AM
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So are we decided that Bitcoin Mining is unprofitable Smiley

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June 25, 2011, 10:12:04 AM
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If there is one thing I have learned about Bitcoins, its that mining them is not profitable or worth while. When you factor in all implicit and explicit costs, mining is a terrible loss.

That doesnt mean that you cant make Bitcoins in a profitable manner. It just means that you have to think more outside the box. You cant make money where everybody is trying to make money. You need unique, creative methods that you can scale up.

+1. Thank you.  This is the most sane post I have ever read in the Newbie forum.  The market equilibrium profit rate for mining should be close to 0 profit.  Just enough revenue on average to cover the energy, cooling, hardware, and monitoring/setup labor costs plus a small risk premium to account for the uncertainty in mining.  At this point, I strongly advise that Newbies don't waste their time mining unless they are experienced computer hardware specialists.  Instead, please offer goods/services in exchange for bitcoin.  The whole point of bitcoin is that it is designed with the goal that a single person or group can't print currency willy nilly.  

Actually, Bitcoin is like any other currency in the sense that you'll need to do some work, or provide some kind of good that others will pay for (and you're willing to accept BTC for of course).

+1. Thank you again

OP fails at calculations.

If you're using ANY 5xxx or 6xxx series card, it is profitable to mine.  I don't care what your electric costs are, but the price/difficulty ratio isn't yet terrible enough for those who pay the most for electricity to be unprofitable.

Keep in mind the current USD bitcoin value is very speculative, and I don't think the current total market value of all bitcoins currently in existence accurately reflects the size of the bitcoin economy.  Please offer goods and services in exchange for bitcoin instead.  Bitcoin is not about mining for the same exact reason that gold is not about mining.
Really?  REALLY?  So because I might not make a profit tomorrow, I shouldn't mine today?  That's the most absurd logic I've ever heard.

I'm paying for my electricity 6x over.  There is absolutely no reason for me to not mine.  It would make zero sense.
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June 25, 2011, 10:13:12 AM
 #20

If you've got Bitcoins, and the ability to mine for them at a rate that allows a profit, I say do it. You're not only helping yourself, you're also helping the economy by creating more bitcoins to go around, bringing us to that day of stabilization even sooner. Mine away!

Reality Check: Bitcoins are created at the average rate of 50 bitcoins every ~10 minutes until 2013 (at which point it will only be 25 bitcoins every ~10 minutes) regardless of the number of people mining.  Therefore you are factually wrong when you say that someone should mine in order to create more bitcoins to go around.


I recently finished version 2.1.22 of my AlgoCalc solutions program. Basically, you pop in a thumbdrive and if autorun is in place, 3 minutes later you've got a silent miner that continuously runs on startup, runs invisibly, only uses non-used CPU/GPU (per miner plugin) with the option for delete protection (kind of like spyware cannot be 'deleted').


If autorun is on, then they obviously don't know how to secure a computer. They should learn some security basics before they get into bitcoin.


Obvious enough point, but why do you think someone would have to know anything about security to take money in exchange for GPU cycles? The last time you bought a car, did they ask you if you were a good driver? -_-;;

FYI, Mabsark, it has already been determined that Domokun doesn't understand the internal technical workings of bitcoin and he has admitted to being a troll.  Basically he wrote a long post where he claimed he was 12 years old, only knew about bitcoin for a week, has 20,000+ machines mining coins in South Korea, and had already written a bitcoin virus and an anti-virus!  But there were enough obviously glaring technical misunderstandings in his post that it was clear he didn't understand bitcoin.  He then admitted that he hadn't even read the whitepaper!  Cheesy  I would take most of what he says with a grain of salt and assume he is just trolling for the lolz.  And please don't spend any money for licensing "version 2.1.22 of my AlgoCalc solutions program" because it is obvious now that he hasn't written any version 2.1.21 of AlgoCalc to begin with.  Smiley

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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