Segwit2x vs 1 MB

[Odalv]

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

[1715590836]

1715590836

[1715590836]

1715590836

[1715590836]

1715590836

[fluidjax]

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I plan not to use Bitcoin over the fork period. It costs me nothing to wait,  so I will wait and wait some more,  until the 2x attack runs out of money.
I believe the users don't want 2x, so few people will be buying 2x, the price will drop, and it won't be able to support the large amount of miners (80-90%) that ideologically want to mine it. So, to pay their electricity bills and realise the investment in hardware, a percentage will switch back to BTC.
The miners may have deep pockets, but they can't continue indefinitely. No doubt this will all drag on for a while, but like I said, I can wait, and they can't.

[Odalv]

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I plan not to use Bitcoin over the fork period. It costs me nothing to wait,  so I will wait and wait some more,  until the 2x attack runs out of money.
I believe the users don't want 2x, so few people will be buying 2x, the price will drop, and it won't be able to support the large amount of miners (80-90%) that ideologically want to mine it. So, to pay their electricity bills and realise the investment in hardware, a percentage will switch back to BTC.
The miners may have deep pockets, but they can't continue indefinitely. No doubt this will all drag on for a while, but like I said, I can wait, and they can't.

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

[fluidjax]

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

Theres going to be opt-in replay protection.

To split your coins
On BTC chain you have some coins in address (A), you send your coins to another address you own (B), and include a further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi  to whom you send a few satoshis.
Any transactions that contain this special address will be ignored by 2X miners.
Once this is successful, you will have your BTC in an address(B) you own.

Now you switch to the 2X chain, and send again from your first address (A), this time to a different addresses (C) you own this time omitting the special recipient address.

After this:
A is empty on both chains
B contains BTC coins
C contains 2X coins

(Always split to addresses you own, so if anything goes wrong, it shouldn't matter)
But I don't think I'll be bothering to split.

[Odalv]

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

Theres going to be opt-in replay protection.

To split your coins
On BTC chain you have some coins in address (A), you send your coins to another address you own (B), and include a further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi  to whom you send a few satoshis.
Any transactions that contain this special address will be ignored by 2X miners.
Once this is successful, you will have your BTC in an address(B) you own.

Now you switch to the 2X chain, and send again from your first address (A), this time to a different addresses (C) you own this time omitting the special recipient address.

After this:
A is empty on both chains
B contains BTC coins
C contains 2X coins

(Always split to addresses you own, so if anything goes wrong, it shouldn't matter)
But I don't think I'll be bothering to split.

I'm tempted to make money on this. :-)
1. Move BTC2X to new address with 0 fee (will be never confirmed on original chain)
2. When BTC2X confirmed then move BTC to new address (include fee)
3. Sell BTC2X if somebody is willing to buy.

But your plan is safer :-) (but take more time, I think -> I assume, transaction on original chain take long time)

Edit:
> further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi  to whom you send a few satoshis.
This address is valid on Segwit2x too (it will be replayed on 2x)

[d_eddie]

As I wrote elsewhere (the Wall Observer thread), I read about two ways to split:

1) Mix freshly mined coined into your transaction.  Mined coins only exist on ONE chain, so you're safe your transaction ends up on that chain.

2) Timelocked black magic? I'll be looking for some more info about this. Clues anyone?

[gentlemand]

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

[manchester93]

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I'll do nothing. That's the safest thing to do: refrain from making any transactions until you are confident that you can safely do so (without being replay attacked). The last thing you want to do is be one of those idiots choosing sides before listening to the market. That's just asking to lose money.

When the initial dust settles, I'll use the opt-in replay protection coded into Segwit2x to split my Segwit2x coins into a new wallet. Then I'll probably wait a few weeks/months to see how the market reacts before making any big decisions.

[pooya87]

Will you install/use Segwit2x ?

the only obvious answer to this question is YES. no matter what happens worst case scenario is that 2x will be like BCH. if you say no, you are saying no to a lot of free money

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

it will surely be A LOT longer than 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation if current chain works with 10-20% of hashrate and with the same number of daily transactions and even a possibility of spam attack!

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

there are differences between the two.
BCH didn't have any support. it only had a small hashrate a Roger Ver who is trying to take over.
2x has a huge hashrate support and some big businesses such as BitPay behind it.

~
> further special recipient address 3Bit1xA4apyzgmFNT2k8Pvnd6zb6TnwcTi  to whom you send a few satoshis.
This address is valid on Segwit2x too (it will be replayed on 2x)

no it won't be replayed on 2x, it will be invalid and ignored on 2x chain.
but there are other ways of protecting against it which are also cheaper.

2) Timelocked black magic? I'll be looking for some more info about this. Clues anyone?

faster chain will be on block 200 and slower will be on block 100 (examples).
you create a transaction on faster chain and set your locktime to 201 and also enable RBF (change the sequence to a smaller number) this tx can only be mined on block 201. the faster chain mines this. the slower chain needs to find 101 more blocks to be able to mine that transaction so you have a long time.

as soon as your tx was confirmed on faster chain you double spend it on the slower chain but this time send the coins to another address you own.

[Odalv]

faster chain will be on block 200 and slower will be on block 100 (examples).
you create a transaction on faster chain and set your locktime to 201 and also enable RBF (change the sequence to a smaller number) this tx can only be mined on block 201. the faster chain mines this. the slower chain needs to find 101 more blocks to be able to mine that transaction so you have a long time.

as soon as your tx was confirmed on faster chain you double spend it on the slower chain but this time send the coins to another address you own.

Looks good. Is there software what can create such transaction ?

[pooya87]

faster chain will be on block 200 and slower will be on block 100 (examples).
you create a transaction on faster chain and set your locktime to 201 and also enable RBF (change the sequence to a smaller number) this tx can only be mined on block 201. the faster chain mines this. the slower chain needs to find 101 more blocks to be able to mine that transaction so you have a long time.

as soon as your tx was confirmed on faster chain you double spend it on the slower chain but this time send the coins to another address you own.

Looks good. Is there software what can create such transaction ?

bitcoin core and by extension any fork of it (including SegWit2x) will automatically add locktime based on last block height so you are goo there. but i am not sure how you mark the transactions as RBF in Core. i think you have to do it through command line!
but Electrum for example has RBF option in the preference which is as simple as checking a box. but it does not have option to change the locktime (i think they were planning on adding this in the new versions but i have not yet checked it).

[Lampaster]

It seems to me that any transactions at the time the fork will be risky. There are many ways and there is no one with a 100% guarantee. What makes you hurry? I support those who will pause until the situation is not clarified and the transaction will take place without problems. This situation will last a maximum of a few days. What's the problem to wait for this?

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

What you have to do is wait and see. There are miners that will drop from the agreement because they know it's dangerous for them to try to do something as stupid as being traitors to bitcoin and supporting bizcoin aka segwit2x.

Segwit2x is going to get dumped, the price will crash, and miners will be back en masse to mine the most valuable coin (legacy Bitcoin). One does not simply bribe corporations and miners with fiat and then claim that is Bitcoin, because Bitcoin would be dead at that point. Good news is, hardforkers will be humiliated once again. The smartest thing to do is to dump hardforks immediately.

[Denker]

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I will definitely not use this chain in any way. And trust me , the majority of users won't do either!
Miners don't make the rules! They will again learn a very hard lesson. The second one after UASF showed them where the real power is!!

[talkbitcoin]

the best thing in times like this is to wait and see. you can not give any opinion right now.

i am not sure how this fork is going to be, but surely there will be some "signalling" period. by then everything will become crystal clear. you can see how much of the hashrate is supporting what and then you also look at how much of community is supporting what.
if a good high percentage was on one side (like SegWit vs BCH) the joke coin will be clear. if it is not a high percentage then you can't really decide, you will have to wait and see which chain survives and which chain has the higher price and utility.

but no matter what, it is best to claim the other coins to have the extra money.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

Don't be an idiot. This is not Corecoin vs Bizcoin, this is Bitcoin vs Bizcoin. If a conglomerate of corporations and miners bribed by US money takes over the development of bitcoin, how isn't bitcoin dead?

Don't be on the wrong side of history, this has nothing to do with Core, if you think otherwise you have some lurking to do.

[alyssa85]

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

It depends on the miners doesn't it? They haven't come out and said what they're going to do.

[Catnitam]

What will you do if 80-90% of miners start mining > 1MB blocks ?
Will you ignore this chain and will be waiting 1-2 hours for 1 confirmation on original chain ?

If somebody makes bitcoin transaction then it apears on Segwit2x chain (bigger block, faster confirmation).
I think it takes hours(or days) to confirm on original chain.

Do I miss something ? (It will be not the same as with Bitcoin cash)

I plan not to use Bitcoin over the fork period. It costs me nothing to wait,  so I will wait and wait some more,  until the 2x attack runs out of money.
I believe the users don't want 2x, so few people will be buying 2x, the price will drop, and it won't be able to support the large amount of miners (80-90%) that ideologically want to mine it. So, to pay their electricity bills and realise the investment in hardware, a percentage will switch back to BTC.
The miners may have deep pockets, but they can't continue indefinitely. No doubt this will all drag on for a while, but like I said, I can wait, and they can't.

Yes, it is good strategy.

>so few people will be buying 2x,

Nobody will be buying 2x, they will be buying BTC and those transactions will be replaying on 2x

Does it mean if you buy 1 bitcoin, you will get 1 2x coin for free?

[freedomsr40]

I will simply keep both of them in hand. Last time with BCH hardfork and choose to dump BCH and keep BTC. But this time is different, it's too risky to make a choice when I can not fully understand the situation.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

There's plenty of bravado out there, but if Corecoin really does get awarded the current signalling distribution then it's going to be borderline unusable and it'll stay that way unless they themselves hard fork into a different form. Then we have three coins as a few nutters might mine the original one.

Things are going to heat up rapidly between now and November, but I think most people are rational enough to know 2X is going to be a fuckup that's abandoned before it gets rolling.

It depends on the miners doesn't it? They haven't come out and said what they're going to do.

There are miners already rejecting the agreement, the agreement has been broken a million times, the agreement is poorly written, it lacks a lot of details, it included that it would be followed in order to avoid a hardfork (and since the BCash hardfork happened, and miners in the agreement mined the fork to both, another reason why it was broken), the agreement also didn't include the replay protection measures... it is a total mess and any true bitcoiner should be doing whatever is on its hand to stop this.

If the exchanges that should be listing both coins, dont list both coins, I can't wait for the legal consequences, because some people with a lot of money is going to be extremely pissed off at some corporations playing around with their bitcoins.