[ANN] Tangible Cryptography suspends Bitcoin related transaction.

[MPOE-PR]

It is something we are considering.  Understand though that would essentially be us conceding the issue to the state of VA and we would then need to enforce mechanisms to block VA residents from using our service.  It is utterly baffling that MSB/MT regulations at state levels haven't be challenged on interstate commerce grounds but we haven't found any case law to suggest they have.  Of course it likely is only time before some other states move to "protect" their residents as well. 

Easy enough to explain it: the slightly different, slightly quirky 50 state regulations act collectively as a barrier to entry in that market, requiring one to sink about a couple million dollars into nonsense papershuffling. The fiat world equivalent of MPEx's 30 BTC regfee, if you will; you don't have that capital to throw away, you're not old enough to play.

The parties with enough bankroll to challenge successfully are better served by taking advantage of the barrier than bringing it down. The parties without enough bankroll are welcome to go suck on a lemon.

(And before anyone gets all agitated about current politics: this is how the US has worked ever since original incorporation, a coupla hundred years ago.)

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[MSantori]

This is awful.  Good luck you guys.  

I've reviewed Virginia law for one of my bitcoin clients and it is very difficult to apply to a bitcoin transaction, or what I understand to be your business in general.  Title 6.2, Chapter 19's definition of "money" is very broad, but they do not define "transmission" at all.  Typically, transmission requires at least two customers in a transaction.  You seem to only have one customer per transaction, so maybe they don't understand what it is you do.

[TheButterZone]

Yeah, it raised my eyebrow that the most favorable interpretation would be that buy, hold, sellers should be free and clear because they're not acting as a middleman like PP or WU between 2 other people, but with that kind of justice system, no innocents would ever be targeted...

[SuperTramp]

Tangible Cryptography,

Sent you an email + a PM regarding an order I placed on June 1st.

[Unacceptable]

Any news guys ?? Hope your back online soon 

Best of Luck!!!!!!!!!!

[MSantori]

I am also interested to hear the latest, if only out of professional curiosity.

[yellowcoin]

website down.... maybe they losing it like btcpak....sigh...

[DeathAndTaxes]

website down.... maybe they losing it like btcpak....sigh...

The site being down is unrelated to this announcement, just bad timing.  Our colocation provider is physically moving to a new larger datacenter something which has been planned for over a month now.  Our server was inaccessible after the migration and it now appears they have "lost" our server.  No customer information is at risk.  We employ whole drive encryption and have encrypted offsite backups as well.  There is no super admin or backdoor access to reset the admin password like has occurred at low cost VPS providers.  We own the bare metal that our services are running on. 

[TangibleCryptography]

Any news guys ?? Hope your back online soon 

Best of Luck!!!!!!!!!!

I am also interested to hear the latest, if only out of professional curiosity.

We do not have a formal response from the commission at this time.  It is unlikely any updates will be provided until we have a formal response either indicating that our activity does not require a license or that we must obtain a license. 

[Aseras]

I think it's unlikely that you will get a response at all, unless its a knock on the door by a swat team.

[DannyHamilton]

Question:

Given the fact that your "core business" has theoretically ceased operation...

Tangible Cryptography will no longer be handling escrows.   As our core business continues to grow we feel it is best to focus our resources and time on that venture and streamline our operation by discontinuing activities outside our core business.   We have asked the OP to remove our company name from the listing.

Thank You,

Staff

Tangible Cryptography LLC

Have you given any consideration to resuming offering escrow services temporarily until you get a formal response from the commission?

[BCB]

Escrow (unless you are an attorney) is money transmission also.

[opentoe]

It's silly, but for a different reason.  If bitcoin is 'stored value' then the people who sold bitcoins to FC4B were all engaged in the business of money transmission, and the Virginia Corporation Commission should be investigating those thousands of people.  I'd love to see how they construe that as protecting residents of the Commonwealth.

Exactly, They need to be going after miners, the people who create the coins or "store of value". I'm very glad AsicMiner is in the more reasonable capitalistic and libertarian country of China.

If they were in the USA I'm sure they would be raided by special forces and S.W.A.T. teams.

Man, the US must hate those people who have solar panels up paying for their electric. I wonder if they would try to sue the sun or proton particles? Has to be some money in there somewhere.

[opentoe]

Any news guys ?? Hope your back online soon 

Best of Luck!!!!!!!!!!

I am also interested to hear the latest, if only out of professional curiosity.

We do not have a formal response from the commission at this time.  It is unlikely any updates will be provided until we have a formal response either indicating that our activity does not require a license or that we must obtain a license. 

Because there is an 80 year old guy asking his assistant, "hey dear, what are bitcoins?". You may never receive an answer.

TC, why don't you lawyer up yourselves to keep in business while the politicians figure things out? I remember when Donald Trump filed for bankruptcy many years ago he was still buying planes, homes, and expensive items. It basically boils down to how good your attorney's are. If your attorney's can't keep you in business while waiting for a decision which could take years you need new counsel.

[DannyHamilton]

Escrow (unless you are an attorney) is money transmission also.

Only if you are holding the U.S. cash as escrow.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Have you given any consideration to resuming offering escrow services temporarily until you get a formal response from the commission?

Regardless of the decision, Tangible Cryptography, LLC won't be offering escrow in the future.  Too high risk, too low profit (competing with 0% fee operators), and too manpower intensive.  If you need a trusted escrow agent I would recommend John K.  He is the only one I trust enough to use personally.

[DannyHamilton]

Have you given any consideration to resuming offering escrow services temporarily until you get a formal response from the commission?

Regardless of the decision, Tangible Cryptography, LLC won't be offering escrow in the future.  Too high risk, too low profit (competing with 0% fee operators), and too manpower intensive.  If you need a trusted escrow agent I would recommend John K.  He is the only one I trust enough to use personally.

Understood.

I'm one of those 0% fee (gratuity appreciated) operators.  Unfortunately, when I need escrow, John K. is the only current provider that I trust enough to use personally in most cases.  I'm typically happy to pay his 1.5% fee, but he isn't always available on short notice, especially during the timeframe that local banks are open (due to his geographical location).

Anyhow, if you change you mind, I'd be happy to pay between 1% and 2% for escrow services from someone as trusted as yourself.

[Lohoris]

TC, why don't you lawyer up yourselves to keep in business while the politicians figure things out? I remember when Donald Trump filed for bankruptcy many years ago he was still buying planes, homes, and expensive items. It basically boils down to how good your attorney's are. If your attorney's can't keep you in business while waiting for a decision which could take years you need new counsel.

+1

[Aseras]

I doubt TC has the pocketbook to fight the state. Fighting corporations or debt is one thing. Fighting the people who can make the rules and change them on a whim is something else entirely.

[BCB]

That is why we need collective action to begin bitcoin advocacy or to form a self regulating with Bitcoin and Financial industry professionals to interface with regulators and legislators to educate them about the benefits of the protocol.  I think there was hope that this was what the bitcoin foundation would be working on.  But there seems to be many varying opinions about the foundation and its efforts here on this forum.

Our company has decided to move forward proactively in this area in our own business interest and in the interest of all bitcoiner and bitcoin businesses.  If you are interested in joining us please PM me to get involved.

Thanks.