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Author Topic: 3 kinds of ICOs — Protect yourself  (Read 13566 times)
Duzenn
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February 14, 2018, 04:26:29 AM
 #401

GOOD, this is a good post.
It is very careful to distinguish the current three types of ICO. Indeed, most ICO looks more like a scam. No matter what industry can have a relationship with the blockchain, is it not a circle of money? Huh

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February 16, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
 #402

GOOD, this is a good post.
It is very careful to distinguish the current three types of ICO. Indeed, most ICO looks more like a scam. No matter what industry can have a relationship with the blockchain, is it not a circle of money? Huh
There are have many things can apply the blockchain technology to develop and grow more, but there are too many ICO projects, it made the ICO market has same idea while the practicality is not reasonable. Why do we need to use blockchain for adult video, lmao? Grin

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February 16, 2018, 05:14:16 PM
 #403

This is comprehensive study of ICO and really an eye opener, with this I think one should be able to make right decisions concerning which one to do and one to run away from now.

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February 16, 2018, 05:16:32 PM
 #404

really nice thread. It is possible to beat the scammers at there own game if you are not greedy so let the scams go on.
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February 16, 2018, 05:37:46 PM
 #405

Thanks. Nice summary and experience for us folks put together in a comprehensive manner. Cherry picking good ICOs is fairly difficult since I fear many review sources are not too objective. I think we lack sound independent and non-influenciable sources which we would likely be willing to pay for (slightly).

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February 16, 2018, 10:12:29 PM
 #406

Thank you so much for sharing us all of these things. These things are all very important to be considered. Especially online businesses, in crypto, scammers have countless ideas just to make money selfishly. It is pretty discouraging but as they say, NO RISK NO GAIN. So, just conduct research all the time.
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February 18, 2018, 09:35:06 AM
 #407

When I'm choosing the best and reliable ICO project I am watching first of all team of developers. If in the management and between creators are famous names then it is a very good sign, some kind of guarantee.
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February 24, 2018, 09:30:35 PM
 #408

When I'm choosing the best and reliable ICO project I am watching first of all team of developers. If in the management and between creators are famous names then it is a very good sign, some kind of guarantee.
You have to remember these famous people can be the advisor, they aren't the devs if they just earned some money to show their face with that project (spreading some promote words too). Of course, in the past, this case also happened. I remember that project is Centra promoted by Floyd Mayweather Roll Eyes
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March 03, 2018, 09:50:06 PM
 #409

Thanks. Nice summary and experience for us folks put together in a comprehensive manner. Cherry picking good ICOs is fairly difficult since I fear many review sources are not too objective. I think we lack sound independent and non-influenciable sources which we would likely be willing to pay for (slightly).
Nowadays, investing into ICO isn't an investment type for normal investor. The whale, the rich, the famous people are creating team to investing and controlling this market. ICO wasn't a good way for real investor from the last year. Many speculator and many worthless projects  made this field became so bad.

Just Nao Tomori and Bitcoin ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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March 03, 2018, 11:59:44 PM
 #410

you wrote this post very detailed thanks for that this is what newbie like me needs i have saved this for the future

There are 3 kinds of ICOs:

1)  SCAMS

There have always been a lot of scammers, hackers and thieves in the crypto space since day one. Think of Mount Gox. According to Business Insider:

Quote
“…one out of every 16-17 Bitcoins belongs to someone who stole it”

If you don’t think that these thieves are trying to steal money through ICOs or from ICOs, you are kidding yourself. You just need to see the Bitcointalk forum dedicated to scams, or to participate in a Slack channel and you will see the never-ending phishing e-mails trying to lure you to their sites, in order to empty your wallet.

In addition to thieves and scammers, there are those who lie or exaggerate. Many users on Bitcointalk are pump and dumpers.

2)  CRAP

Everyone is desperate to host an ICO to make money. Therefore, they are throwing anything and everything onto the blockchain, including the kitchen sink. They may not be intentionally trying to scam, but they think that they have a good enough idea for an ICO. But these will fail because the blockchain will not solve anything for them. Examples include ICOs that want to put 3D data (which would equate to hundreds of Terabytes of data) or 153 exabytes of medical data on a blockchain. This shows that they are clueless about the blockchain and have never run Bitcoin’s full node. Bitcoin’s blockchain is 120 GB and Ethereum’s blockhain is 200 GB and they are both having scaling problems.

Even though crypto veterans and fans would like it to be, the blockchain is NOT the panacea to every problem in the world.

ICOs are also throwing any kind of business problem that they can make up, into the ICO. If they cannot make up the business problem, they will exaggerate about it. They will fail because the business problem doesn’t really exist, isn’t significant enough, cannot be solved by a blockchain or they do not really have the solution, though they try to make it sound like they do with lots of technical jargon.

Swarm Fund cites this business problem:

Quote
“You need large amounts of money to buy real estate and your money is tied down for an indefinite amount of time.”

This is a lie and not a business problem. You can buy one share of a REIT, and there are thousands of REITs to choose from, and you can sell it one minute later. If they start off their pitch with a lie, what else are they lying about?

Energi cites this business problem:

Quote
“A small number of large energy companies supply millions of customers who are price takers.”

Therefore, the solution is to create more energy suppliers, especially nuclear power plants, which is the cheapest source of electricity. But the project does not propose this. They propose to enable consumers to sell their solar self-generated electricity directly to other consumers.

To do this, consumers should have BOTH solar panels and batteries. This is a TINY market. Though solar panels are growing, it is still a tiny percent of the market and solar generated electricity is still much more expensive than nuclear generated.

Consumers with solar panels do not have that much surplus electricity to sell anyways. They use most of what they generate. Tesla and Enphase hyped up their batteries for solar panel owners to store their surplus electricity. These batteries are NOT selling. Enphase spent over $100 million to develop their battery and partly because of the lack of battery sales, their stock has plummeted approximately 85%.

Of course, the project’s pitch looks impressive at first glance.

3)  LEGITIMATE

There are only a few applications that make a lot of sense for the blockchain: transfer of value (currency), store of value, remittances (disrupt Western Union and bank wire transfers), smart contracts, gaming and gambling. These applications will disrupt their respective industries, because the blockchain will provide a lot of cost-savings or time-savings to the users. There might be other applications that make sense that I missed, but applications proposed by many ICOs do not make sense. Jesus Coin is an extreme example, but there are applications that fall across the spectrum from Jesus Coin to Bitcoin.



YOU CAN REDUCE THE RISK AND THE NUMBER OF ICOS TO REVIEW, BY USING 3 FILTERS

1)  The project’s idea should make sense, but do not base your investment decision purely on the idea. Watch:

“Ideas are like assholes - everyone has one, no one cares”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhJgrEackis

Entrepreneurs typically try to hide their ideas because they think they are the only ones that came up with the ideas. Venture Capitalists tell them to scream their ideas to the public and they’ll see that nobody will steal them. Ideas are a dime a dozen. There are probably 10 other people with the same idea that you have or that the ICO has. The most important factor to success is the ability to execute. This is why Venture Capitalists refuse to sign non-disclosure agreements and rarely invest in startups which haven’t built a prototype or product.

HAS THE ICO TEAM BUILT ANYTHING THAT WE CAN USE TODAY?

If not, take a pass. This is the best evidence that the team can execute. It takes way more skill, time, work and money to build an app than to create a one-page website and video. It shows:

  • The team has proven that they can develop.
  • It is less likely that the team will invest so much and not follow through.

Everything else is useless. Don’t be fooled by big teams, fancy pretentious titles, references, roadmap, video, fancy animations, escrow, blogs, Slack, Telegram, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit and white paper.

One project stacked their team with a dozen people and then lied about them. One member had the title of “Blockchain Expert”, but he worked in Inside Sales until 1.5 months prior. One member had the title “Blockchain Developer”, but he never developed a blockchain before.

Here is an example of a project team using fake photos and fake names: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1949528.msg19485217#msg19485217

Don't rely on Github unless you can verify that they didn't copy the code from someone else and you can run it.

Several high profile projects, with big teams, nice videos, lots of social media activity and hype, raised millions of dollars and still have not produced an app. This number will grow and become more evident in the coming years.

Gnosis raised $12.5 million and their website says:

Quote
“The Hunch Game is nearly ready and can be launched in the first half of 2017 as an example Gnosis app.”

No app yet.

Qtum raised $15.6 million. I don't see anything produced on Qtum's website.

After raising $50 million, Cosmos's website is still pitching its white paper. Come on. What have they produced with that $50 million?

Augur had Vitalik Buterin on their team. After Satoshi Nakamoto, Vitalik is the most desirable person in the universe to have on an ICO team. After raising multiple millions and after two and a half years, all they’ve released is a simple beta that is barely usable.

Don’t be suckered by animations and videos. Satoshi didn’t have any of this and his coin was the most successful. Besides, the animations aren’t that impressive anymore, as I’m beginning to see the same animation on multiple websites. Some of these teams must be using the same graphic designer.

There is no guarantee that any business will not fail. But, when the ICO team has a prototype/product, they have proven that they can develop. That significantly reduces your risk. With many ICOs, you have no idea if they can build anything. You cannot trust the information on the profile of many ICOs. Just because they can hire somebody to make a video, it does not mean they can write thousands of lines of complicated code. It's like you giving money to someone to fix your car, simply because his video says he can fix cars, but he has never fixed one before.

Y Combinator is one of the biggest startup incubators in the world. They provide a small amount of funding (approx. $25k to 50k) to startups, which usually consists of 2 founders each. Then they build prototypes or products. Then the startups give pitches to angel investors or Venture Capitalists. If prototypes or products are unnecessary, then why do they waste so much time and money before pitching to angels and VCs?

Almost all incubators have startups that consist of usually only 2 founders, that are building prototypes and products. ICOs are stacking their team with a dozen people and they still cannot build anything. With 12 people, they should've built 6 prototypes/products by now. This shows that they are simply stacking their teams with useless people, in order to impress you or sucker you in.

2)  IS THE TEAM FROM A CORRUPT COUNTRY?

Check Transparency International's ranking.

If so, take a pass.

The number of ICOs from corrupt countries, especially those that were famous for sending out phishing scams for years, have exploded.

Yes, there are scams from countries that are not corrupt and successful projects from corrupt countries. What is important is the probability and if you are willing to take the extra risk.

In non-corrupt countries, people grow up with lots of regulations and enforcement. Though there are exceptions, the people feel that the way to get ahead is based largely on merit. In corrupt countries, there is less regulation, less enforcement and more people trying to find ways to get ahead by working around the system. In fact, they see that the most successful people in their country, usually in their government, are those who get ahead by lying, cheating or working around the system, instead of based on merit. If you do not think this is a risk, then we will agree to disagree.

Law enforcement is a big deterrent. Hurricanes prove this. After hurricanes Katrina and Irma, there were widespread lootings. Why? Because police are not on the streets and criminals feel immune from punishment.

Law enforcement through extradition is a deterrent. If an Australian defrauds investors in Germany, Germany can extradite the Australian and punish him. This makes the Australian think twice before he defrauds Germans. However, there are many countries without extradition agreements. This provides immunity to ICO teams. Therefore, they can lie, defraud and cheat investors from other countries, and there will be little to no recourse from the other countries. This can bring out the looting mentality.

There are many ICOs enticing investors, by claiming that their token or coin will go up in value or that token holders will get dividends, profits or ownership in other assets. Some tell buyers that they are “investing”. This means that they are selling securities and are breaking security laws.

I watched a video of a conference. ConsenSys was warning about the repercussions of selling securities. Waves’ CEO, who is from a country without extradition agreements with Europe or U.S., debated this, downplayed the concern and shrugged it off. Why should he care? No European or American government is going to be able to punish him if he broke security laws. Even if Europe cannot punish him, if Europe bans his coin, will you suffer?

Without law enforcement, ICOs can lie and get away with it. One project claimed that they will make 400+% return per year for the investor. In countries that enforce securities laws, if you make this claim and do not deliver, investors can sue you. In countries with advertising laws, the police can punish you for false advertising. In countries that are immune from these laws, ICOs can make any claim they want. One of the most egregious claims is when an ICO tells you that you will be a part owner of a physical company. Good luck in getting a judge in their country to force the company to give you equity because you own some ERC-20 tokens. Good luck to you and your multiple flights to that country.

Few corrupt countries have extradition agreements. For those that do, can you rely on their corrupt governments to fulfill their obligations?

3)  “NEVER INVEST IN A BUSINESS THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND”

This is a quote from Warren Buffett. It is very applicable because many ICO teams try to impress the audience with technical jargon. Many investors are not tech savvy and are baffled or confused, but they invest because they think that the project team must have come up with a technological break-through.

Last word:

You need to be able to verify that the business problem exists, that the market size is truly as big as the ICO claims and that the solution is possible. Quite often, they exaggerate on most of these. You need to verify that a blockchain or a cryptocurrency actually is needed for the solution. Quite often, they’re not.

Do not rely solely on ICO listing or rating sites. They likely do not know about all of the ICOs. Not all ICOs are willing to pay to be listed. They have methodologies that you may not agree with. Some claim to be experts, but you are likely more of an expert in your own field, whether that is medical, law, engineering or finance, than they are. They will likely have biases, especially for ICOs originating from their country or region. Putin wants to increase the crypto industry in Russia. Is this why there has been an explosion of ICOs from Russia? Even Putin’s Advisor ran an ICO. If Russia took out Facebook ads to disrupt U.S. and European politics, who is to say that they will not pay off ICO listing and ratings sites to favor Russian ICOs?
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March 17, 2018, 10:45:17 PM
 #411

If you want to know whether the ico is good or bad and you are an amateur to the cryptocurrency world then it would be better to follow some of the top investors in cryptocurrency on social media and see what initial coin offerings they are investing in and what are the common factors in all of these investments, be careful they might deceive you.
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April 01, 2018, 10:56:14 PM
 #412

Thanks for giving this amazing information I will definitely take care of this when I invest in any ICO. I also always read the whitepaper before investing in any ICO and it helps me a lot to get to know about that ICO.
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April 02, 2018, 03:07:10 AM
 #413

Thanks for this detailed write up. Extremely useful as well. It was getting hard to chose which ICO was legitimate so just decided not to go with it lately. However it seems Airdrop is all the rage nowadays.
Yes, the current project is really hard for some newcomers to choose from, and it's hard to see what's really worth it.
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April 02, 2018, 04:34:09 AM
 #414

Thanks for this detailed write up. Extremely useful as well. It was getting hard to chose which ICO was legitimate so just decided not to go with it lately. However it seems Airdrop is all the rage nowadays.
Yes, the current project is really hard for some newcomers to choose from, and it's hard to see what's really worth it.
Currently, investing into ICO is not a good idea, I think we should to invest into Bitcoin and top altcoins.
Because when the cryptocurrency has bullish trend or hot trend on the world, the ICO can become good place for investment and speculation like the last year.
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April 02, 2018, 04:44:47 AM
 #415

As of now, 80% of ICOs are scam. A lot of projects I supported that in the end, developers run. The worst thing here is that, the legitimate ICOs are sometimes fail. Why? Because scam ICOs offered a great at first, bounty hunters wanted to join in an ICO that has a big bounty pool. When there are lot of promoters, assure that investors will come also. Unfortunately, the time and money spent by the crypto people are wasted because the project they participated was scam and the opportunity to go at the legit ICO is gone. Now, legit ICO failed because they can't market their project because there are a few numbers of promoters.
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April 18, 2018, 05:09:00 PM
 #416

Thank you, very urgent topic.  More to such threads on the forum. All the criteria are very important, because the project that conducts the ICO should contain some idea that will allow to change or bring changes to the sphere where it will work. Unfortunately, a lot of scam projects appear that do not have their own code, but sell only the idea in a beautiful package.
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April 25, 2018, 03:18:08 AM
 #417

ICO is known as Initial Coin offering, the first digital token of the public offering, modelled on the stock market IPO (Initial).
That is, the project initiator may obtain the financing by the way of the block chain technology issue initial token, however, the initial tokens cannot be purchased in fiat currency (RMB, USD, etc.), because it violates the laws and regulations on financing, and it needs to be purchased with more liquid digital assets such as Bitcoin and Ethernet.
At present, the regulation of ICO has yet to be perfected, which requires us to be dry and carefully screened. "In fact, the evaluation of the project on those criteria, is not a real block chain?" Is it necessary to use block chain to solve? The team is not really engaged in the block chain technology development (many people are fake resumes, block chain technology is still difficult, really mature technicians are not many)? Is there any entity registration (prevent running)?
"The marketing director of the worldwide chain, Lulihua said.
Based on the success of the ICO project over the past 4 years, media has summarized the following key points of the ICO project. First of all, to have the bottom of the block chain philosophy support, block chain of the underlying philosophy is to center. Most of the most reliable ICO projects are based on block chain technology to provide more efficient solutions to existing problems.
In other words, these projects are to solve specific problems, if only simple concept packaging, it is difficult to get support.
Second, almost all code open source projects, most will upload source to GitHub, otherwise the current phase of the basic need not participate in this kind of ico, because the pyramid scheme is very suspicious. At the same time, a detailed white paper is essential, and the general White Paper will have a brief introduction will be able to understand the language to tell you what to solve the problem, behind the principle of what, what is special, what the value of the financing of the tokens, how to use the tokens, ICO rules, what the team is the background, is not a landing project.
Interestingly, there has been an ICO project in the white Paper, the name of Ben Cong (Satoshi Nakamoto) was written Zhong Bencong, the degree of flicker. Of course, even if all the above factors are available, the ICO project still risks, after all, the future of technology will require a long time to test.
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April 25, 2018, 03:24:26 AM
 #418

An absolutely nice read on ICOs.

Kudoos and thanks to the owner for the vital signs of a good and crappy ICO and the fine note on investing in one.

This does help a lot for people interested in ICOs and those who wanted to work under one.

Keep it up!

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April 25, 2018, 03:54:42 AM
 #419

Wow are you having some research on this information on your own? you got a lot of ideas there presented and it is not easy to put it in a single thread. Anyway this thread is very informative and useful if i will have smerits then probably i will give all my smerits with this post. And thinking about ICO yes of course we know some of these ICO's that is why we are carefully choosing on joining them as we want also our investment to profit and to getting lose our money in the process. Who would like get lose of their money? No one and that is why investing in crypotcurrency must be examine first in joining and ICO. And i guess that this is part of the investment and that is having risk. All kinds of investments has its own risk and there is no exception.

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April 26, 2018, 03:21:27 PM
 #420

I know that this post will help many person who wants to invest their money to the ICO. We should be aware to what ICO we will investing for us to know whether it is scam or not.
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