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Author Topic: 3 kinds of ICOs — Protect yourself  (Read 13566 times)
jlp (OP)
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October 18, 2017, 02:04:11 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2017, 02:49:39 PM by jlp
 #181

Good day, sir!
I would like to argue with you on that.

1) The sharing economy is a definite trend. Many scientific researches admit that. Car sharing is having a boom currently. AirBnB grows very fast.
2) Sharing economy is a definitely applicable for insurance industry, as Vitalik Buterin mentioned "Decentralized insurance is big if it can succeed"
3) Many insurance people such as Head of the biggest Insurance company in Russia - Sberbank Insurance, Hannes Chopra, Jake Diner professional from insurtech space and Vince Chan from Creta Ventures supported the concept. Team members that doing the project are having MBA from the University of Chicago the famous business school.
4) Many people from Blockchain community are from the same country. Vitalik was born here too.
5) On REGA insured are those who need the coverage for risk, not those who buy policies just to obey the rules. It is a service not an obligation
6) The assets invested by Insurance companies are the source of profit for Insurance company, not for the insured. Those funds have to belong to the community not to corporate structures gaining profit out of those. REGA's concept is not to hold too much funds on the balance sheet to gain profit from those, but actually provide service for insured and repay risk premiums back, if nothing happened with the community members.
7) Crowdsurance platform on Blockchain is more efficient than any insurance company drawning in regulation and corruption.

Thx for your feedback anyway.

Good day, Leo Mor,

1) I never said that the sharing economy is not a trend. I said that there is no such thing as a risk sitting on a parking lot and unused 90% of the time, which is what a car is.
2) Sharing is already intrinsic in insurance. Insurance cannot exist if people do not share risk. Insurance equates to sharing risk. Insurance is one of the first industries to start sharing, starting hundreds or thousands of years ago, when villagers shared the risk by pooling their money together to pay the unfortunate. That’s why many insurance companies have names that start with “Mutual”. "Mutual" insurance companies evolved from people pooling money together to share risk. REGA Crowdsurance is trying to make the reader think that they came up with this idea of sharing risks, which is misleading. "Mutual insurance" companies are already doing much of what REGA wants to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_insurance
Quote
A mutual insurance company is an insurance company owned entirely by its policyholders. Any profits earned by a mutual insurance company are either retained within the company or rebated to policyholders in the form of dividend distributions or reduced future premiums.
3) These people are supporting the creation of one or more entities into insurers. There’s nothing wrong with that. New insurers are created every day.
4) Vitalik moved to Canada at age 6 and grew up in Canada. Then they started Ethereum in Switzerland. The risks involved has nothing to do with where a person is born. It is related to the country's modus operandi, culture and especially the country's law enforcement. Someone born in Denmark but running an ICO in another country without extradition agreements, where he is immune to punishment from other countries (and from his new country), will much more likely exaggerate and claim anything he wants on his ICO.
5) I have never bought an insurance policy for the strict purpose of obeying rules. I bought insurance because it is a service. If you’re not doing this, then you need to shop around among the thousands of insurers.
6) Yes, the returns from investing the premium pool goes to the insurance company. But if the insurance company cannot invest wisely, they can go bankrupt or fail to pay claims, which hurts the insured. Many insurance companies lose money on underwriting and make up the loss from the investments. REGA or its users will have to do something similar. Who is going to invest the premium pool? REGA or its users? For you to guarantee that you will always be profitable from underwriting is naive. Almost all insurance companies lose money from underwriting in some or many years. Rarely are any insurance companies able to repay premiums because nothing happened to the insured. REGA’s business model is flawed if it is assuming that it will do this.
7) You are claiming a business problem that does not exist. What corruption? There are tens of thousands of insurance companies competing against each other vigorously. The regulations are for the protection of the insured, to ensure that the insurance company has enough capital to pay off claims, to ensure that they do not squander it and to ensure that the insurance company does not take excessive risk by putting the premium pool into derivatives or leveraged bets.
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October 18, 2017, 04:26:22 PM
 #182

Some really great info right there that all members should consider when joining ICO's. Well done.

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October 18, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
 #183

Very nice article. The ICO bubble is going to burst just like the dotcom stock bubble of millennium.

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October 18, 2017, 04:45:43 PM
 #184

These are so remarkable suggestions and everyone should recognize them. It is obvious that you really are very experienced member of the community. New members, investors and traders should read them all.


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jlp (OP)
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October 18, 2017, 06:29:01 PM
 #185

In general, there is a reason in your words. I just want to add from my own experience that it is important how the team responds to technical questions and questions about comparing with other projects - do they really know their competitors and their project?

Yes, every ICO should have a table, comparing themselves to the competitors, explaining why each of their features, functions and benefits are superior to the competitors.

Most ICOs do not have this. It is naive for investors to think that they don't have competitors. Eletroneum is a great example. They have many competitors:  Monero, NEM, Dash, PIVX and Zcash. These competitors are not new ICOs. These competitors are among the biggest coins on Coinmarketcap. But Electroneum does not even mention them as competitors. I'm sure that there are many newbies who think that Electroneum is the first cryptocurrency on a mobile phone.
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October 18, 2017, 09:34:47 PM
 #186

There is pushback on my suggestion about corrupt countries.

Here is the logic behind it.

It is a common statistic around the world that young males cause more car accidents than anyone else. That means you (as most people in the crypto space are young males) are high risk. If you are a car insurance company, you would be crazy to accept the same premium from a young male as from a 45 year old. If you did, you will be losing money in no time. Or, you would accept fewer young males as customers than older customers.

Is every young male a dangerous driver? No. Is every ICO in a corrupt country a scam? No. But you need to assess your risk appropriately based on probability. It makes financial sense to reduce your risk exposure to young males.

As already explained in the OP, law enforcement is a deterrent to criminal behavior. If there was no law enforcement, crime shoots up. More Germans will be scamming and killing Germans. More Canadians will be scamming and killing Canadians. More Australians will be scamming and killing Australians. This is an undeniable fact.

Store owners understand this phenomenon. They secure their stores much more so before a hurricane because they know that the police will be unavailable and criminals will be out to loot.

If there was no law enforcement, why wouldn’t people steal $1 million instead of working at their crappy $20/hour job?

If there was no inter-country law enforcement through extradition, crime shoots up. More Germans will be scamming Canadians. More Canadians will be scamming Australians. More Australians will be scamming Germans.

If there was no inter-country law enforcement through extradition, why wouldn’t people steal $1 million from foreigners thousands of miles away, with impunity, instead of working at their crappy $20/hour job? In the past, this didn’t happen very often because it was difficult to rob a store or bank in another country and drive back home. Now, it is easy with the internet, crypto currencies and ICOs. Scammers can do this without changing out of their pyjamas in their basement.

Many countries have inter-country law enforcement through extradition. Most corrupt countries don’t. If you get scammed by a fellow citizen, your government can help you. If you get scammed by a foreigner in another country without an extradition agreement, you are S.O.L (shit out of luck). You need to be aware of this and assess your risk. If you do not, you will be losing money like the insurance company that accepts too many young male customers.

I’ve heard from ICO team members from a country with extradition agreements. They’ve told me that they think that their coin can increase in value, but they won’t say that to investors, in fear of prosecution from securities regulators. This makes their ICO less attractive to investors. If an ICO tells investors that their coin is going to go up in value and it does not, the ICO is guilty of fraud or false advertising, both of which are punishable. Securities laws have been around for a hundred years. This is because for hundreds of years, there have been scammers selling securities.

But ICOs in some countries need not fear. They can say whatever they want with impunity. This is why I see ICOs making crazy claims about paying dividends, spectacular returns on investment, etc. This attracts buyers. But when the buyers find out that they’ve been defrauded, they are S.O.L.
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October 18, 2017, 09:42:34 PM
 #187

some Ico's are without a doubt jaw dropping. for me scam Ico's are obvious you can easily see that through the whitepaper and the developers resume.
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October 18, 2017, 10:04:15 PM
 #188

some Ico's are without a doubt jaw dropping. for me scam Ico's are obvious you can easily see that through the whitepaper and the developers resume.

i think no, ive came across recently to some ico that seem verry promising and legit but still turned out to be scam when the ico is about to end and we dont have heard about any news about their project until now. so i guess  its really hard to spot a really legit ico nowadays compared to last  years , maybe this is also due to the competion because i see there were many new ico's and airdrop happening lately.
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October 18, 2017, 10:25:27 PM
 #189

Good day, sir!
I would like to argue with you on that.

1) The sharing economy is a definite trend. Many scientific researches admit that. Car sharing is having a boom currently. AirBnB grows very fast.
2) Sharing economy is a definitely applicable for insurance industry, as Vitalik Buterin mentioned "Decentralized insurance is big if it can succeed"
3) Many insurance people such as Head of the biggest Insurance company in Russia - Sberbank Insurance, Hannes Chopra, Jake Diner professional from insurtech space and Vince Chan from Creta Ventures supported the concept. Team members that doing the project are having MBA from the University of Chicago the famous business school.
4) Many people from Blockchain community are from the same country. Vitalik was born here too.
5) On REGA insured are those who need the coverage for risk, not those who buy policies just to obey the rules. It is a service not an obligation
6) The assets invested by Insurance companies are the source of profit for Insurance company, not for the insured. Those funds have to belong to the community not to corporate structures gaining profit out of those. REGA's concept is not to hold too much funds on the balance sheet to gain profit from those, but actually provide service for insured and repay risk premiums back, if nothing happened with the community members.
7) Crowdsurance platform on Blockchain is more efficient than any insurance company drawning in regulation and corruption.

Thx for your feedback anyway.

Good day, Leo Mor,

1) I never said that the sharing economy is not a trend. I said that there is no such thing as a risk sitting on a parking lot and unused 90% of the time, which is what a car is.
2) Sharing is already intrinsic in insurance. Insurance cannot exist if people do not share risk. Insurance equates to sharing risk. Insurance is one of the first industries to start sharing, starting hundreds or thousands of years ago, when villagers shared the risk by pooling their money together to pay the unfortunate. That’s why many insurance companies have names that start with “Mutual”. "Mutual" insurance companies evolved from people pooling money together to share risk. REGA Crowdsurance is trying to make the reader think that they came up with this idea of sharing risks, which is misleading. "Mutual insurance" companies are already doing much of what REGA wants to do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_insurance
Quote
A mutual insurance company is an insurance company owned entirely by its policyholders. Any profits earned by a mutual insurance company are either retained within the company or rebated to policyholders in the form of dividend distributions or reduced future premiums.
3) These people are supporting the creation of one or more entities into insurers. There’s nothing wrong with that. New insurers are created every day.
4) Vitalik moved to Canada at age 6 and grew up in Canada. Then they started Ethereum in Switzerland. The risks involved has nothing to do with where a person is born. It is related to the country's modus operandi, culture and especially the country's law enforcement. Someone born in Denmark but running an ICO in another country without extradition agreements, where he is immune to punishment from other countries (and from his new country), will much more likely exaggerate and claim anything he wants on his ICO.
5) I have never bought an insurance policy for the strict purpose of obeying rules. I bought insurance because it is a service. If you’re not doing this, then you need to shop around among the thousands of insurers.
6) Yes, the returns from investing the premium pool goes to the insurance company. But if the insurance company cannot invest wisely, they can go bankrupt or fail to pay claims, which hurts the insured. Many insurance companies lose money on underwriting and make up the loss from the investments. REGA or its users will have to do something similar. Who is going to invest the premium pool? REGA or its users? For you to guarantee that you will always be profitable from underwriting is naive. Almost all insurance companies lose money from underwriting in some or many years. Rarely are any insurance companies able to repay premiums because nothing happened to the insured. REGA’s business model is flawed if it is assuming that it will do this.
7) You are claiming a business problem that does not exist. What corruption? There are tens of thousands of insurance companies competing against each other vigorously. The regulations are for the protection of the insured, to ensure that the insurance company has enough capital to pay off claims, to ensure that they do not squander it and to ensure that the insurance company does not take excessive risk by putting the premium pool into derivatives or leveraged bets.

Hello!

I am sorry, sir, but your words make me doubt that you support all that this community stands for - decentralization.

Don't get me wrong, but what you are trying to communicate:
-that the decentralized insurance is not needed, because there are centralized insurance companies
- that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money.
-that Blockchain is not needed, because there is MC and VISA to transfer money
-that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers.

You vote for government control and centralized corporate structures such as banks and insurance companies

Sorry, but that was the last thing i expected to hear on Bitcointalk.
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October 19, 2017, 12:05:21 AM
Last edit: October 19, 2017, 12:34:45 AM by jlp
 #190

Hello!

I am sorry, sir, but your words make me doubt that you support all that this community stands for - decentralization.

Don't get me wrong, but what you are trying to communicate:
-that the decentralized insurance is not needed, because there are centralized insurance companies
- that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money.
-that Blockchain is not needed, because there is MC and VISA to transfer money
-that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers.

You vote for government control and centralized corporate structures such as banks and insurance companies

Sorry, but that was the last thing i expected to hear on Bitcointalk.

Hello Leo Mor,

Not only did you claim business problems that do not exist, you are claiming that I wrote things that I did not.

- I never wrote that “decentralized insurance is not needed”. Re-read what I wrote.
- I never wrote “that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money”. Provide the quote. In past comments, I pointed out a poll of Bitcointalk users, the majority of which voted that they do not believe in Bitcoin banks. I did not tell them to vote that way. But if you’re investing in a crypto bank, you should be aware of this. I assume that they voted that way because it is risky to centralize your money, such as in an exchange (dozens have been hacked and stolen from) or investment fund ($50 million stolen from DAO). Even Andreas Antonopoulos, the biggest optimist of Bitcoin, warned about creating a “honey pot”.
- I never wrote the “Blockchain is not needed because there is MC and VISA to transfer money”. Provide the quote. I wrote in the OP:

Quote
There are only a few applications that make a lot of sense for the blockchain: transfer of value (currency), store of value, remittances (disrupt Western Union and bank wire transfers), smart contracts, gaming and gambling. These applications will disrupt their respective industries, because the blockchain will provide a lot of cost-savings or time-savings to the users. There might be other applications that make sense that I missed, but applications proposed by many ICOs do not make sense. Jesus Coin is an extreme example, but there are applications that fall across the spectrum from Jesus Coin to Bitcoin.

Blockchain is needed for many applications, which I cited. It takes several days and a lot of fees to withdraw from gambling sites. Crypto is a great solution for replacing credit or debit cards at gambling sites.
- I never wrote “that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers”. Provide the quote.
- Decentralizing is a feature. You need to explain what benefits it creates for your application. Customers do not care about features. They care about benefits, such as saving time or money. REGA’s customers will not save money if they do not invest the premium pool properly.

Decentralizing a currency provides benefits to the currency, such as no single entity (government) can control it, shut it down or print more of it. Decentralizing is needed to create the blockchain and maintain the integrity of the ledgers for a cryptocurrency. Decentralizing is needed for Proof of Work, Proof of Stake, Delegated Proof of Stake or Proof of Importance. Without decentralization, you would not be able to create a crypto currency.

Now that decentralization has created a crypto currency, what are the benefits of the crypto currency over existing currencies? It can be transferred much faster and cheaper than bank wire transfers, Western Union or credit/debit cards at gambling sites. In the long run, it should be better at storing value than fiat currency because governments keep printing more fiat. It is better at storing value than gold in some respects, such as divisibility and cost of storage. These are the benefits ultimately.

You want to create an insurer (or insurers) by decentralizing the stakeholders. (Mutual insurance companies have already decentralized stakeholders.) Now that you have created an insurer, what are the benefits of your insurer over existing insurers?  

Based on your approach and method, it has flaws, and investors should be aware of these flaws.

You haven’t been able to show how the flaws are not flaws. This is what you should be doing to win the confidence of investors.

Nobody buys Bitcoin because it is decentralized. People buy it because it stores value and transfers value faster and cheaper than fiat.
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October 19, 2017, 12:31:31 AM
 #191

Try to find ICO that have products in the beta or alpha stage and are close to completion.  This helps reduce the chance of being a scam.

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October 19, 2017, 07:05:57 AM
 #192

Hello!

I am sorry, sir, but your words make me doubt that you support all that this community stands for - decentralization.

Don't get me wrong, but what you are trying to communicate:
-that the decentralized insurance is not needed, because there are centralized insurance companies
- that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money.
-that Blockchain is not needed, because there is MC and VISA to transfer money
-that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers.

You vote for government control and centralized corporate structures such as banks and insurance companies

Sorry, but that was the last thing i expected to hear on Bitcointalk.

Hello Leo Mor,

Not only did you claim business problems that do not exist, you are claiming that I wrote things that I did not.

- I never wrote that “decentralized insurance is not needed”. Re-read what I wrote.
- I never wrote “that p2p lending is not needed, because there are centralized banks that know better how to give you money”. Provide the quote. In past comments, I pointed out a poll of Bitcointalk users, the majority of which voted that they do not believe in Bitcoin banks. I did not tell them to vote that way. But if you’re investing in a crypto bank, you should be aware of this. I assume that they voted that way because it is risky to centralize your money, such as in an exchange (dozens have been hacked and stolen from) or investment fund ($50 million stolen from DAO). Even Andreas Antonopoulos, the biggest optimist of Bitcoin, warned about creating a “honey pot”.
- I never wrote the “Blockchain is not needed because there is MC and VISA to transfer money”. Provide the quote. I wrote in the OP:

Quote
There are only a few applications that make a lot of sense for the blockchain: transfer of value (currency), store of value, remittances (disrupt Western Union and bank wire transfers), smart contracts, gaming and gambling. These applications will disrupt their respective industries, because the blockchain will provide a lot of cost-savings or time-savings to the users. There might be other applications that make sense that I missed, but applications proposed by many ICOs do not make sense. Jesus Coin is an extreme example, but there are applications that fall across the spectrum from Jesus Coin to Bitcoin.

Blockchain is needed for many applications, which I cited. It takes several days and a lot of fees to withdraw from gambling sites. Crypto is a great solution for replacing credit or debit cards at gambling sites.
- I never wrote “that p2p money such as Bitcoin is not needed, because there are Central banks as emission centers”. Provide the quote.
- Decentralizing is a feature. You need to explain what benefits it creates for your application. Customers do not care about features. They care about benefits, such as saving time or money. REGA’s customers will not save money if they do not invest the premium pool properly.

Decentralizing a currency provides benefits to the currency, such as no single entity (government) can control it, shut it down or print more of it. Decentralizing is needed to create the blockchain and maintain the integrity of the ledgers for a cryptocurrency. Decentralizing is needed for Proof of Work, Proof of Stake, Delegated Proof of Stake or Proof of Importance. Without decentralization, you would not be able to create a crypto currency.

Now that decentralization has created a crypto currency, what are the benefits of the crypto currency over existing currencies? It can be transferred much faster and cheaper than bank wire transfers, Western Union or credit/debit cards at gambling sites. In the long run, it should be better at storing value than fiat currency because governments keep printing more fiat. It is better at storing value than gold in some respects, such as divisibility and cost of storage. These are the benefits ultimately.

You want to create an insurer (or insurers) by decentralizing the stakeholders. (Mutual insurance companies have already decentralized stakeholders.) Now that you have created an insurer, what are the benefits of your insurer over existing insurers?  

Based on your approach and method, it has flaws, and investors should be aware of these flaws.

You haven’t been able to show how the flaws are not flaws. This is what you should be doing to win the confidence of investors.

Nobody buys Bitcoin because it is decentralized. People buy it because it stores value and transfers value faster and cheaper than fiat.

Sorry again, but maybe i got it wrong from you.

Maybe the problem here is that you did not look good into the concept REGA is providing, and didn't bother to look deeper.

But, i would repeat that decentralization is the key issue here, as cryptocurrency is valuable not only because you can only easily withdraw it from gambling sites, rather it is a way of p2p value transfer, the money that you actually possess, the store of value.

Considering mutual insurance companies, it is still a centralized model, as there are still bank accounts that are controlled by the director and accountant, still investment assets that can chosen by a few people to invest into. The money are controlled by minority and still the possibility of credit risk and corruption.

Also please, take into consideration that cryptocurrency, such as Bitcoin has limited emission and increasing demand, that is why it can be considered an investment asset itself, being an appreciating currency. This can be said towards ETH as well.

Back to REGA's concept, the funds that are stored in cryptocurrency to provide risk coverage, that is an investment asset, as we found out. There is no centralized  agent to control the funds, all transactions are governed by smart contracts, and using voting procedures. The excessive funds are returned back to the community by paying premiums back. Those funds can be used by community members at their own convinience and used to invest and gain profit. So here the investment opportunity stays, but not corporate structures gaining profit here rather the community, whos premiums are cryptocurrency and they recieve major part of the premiums back if the risk was not realized, and used at their own discretion.

Thank you for your time.
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October 19, 2017, 07:09:23 AM
 #193

This was actually very helpful. I must admit, if the website looked good and the idea sounded interesting I would simply jump in. I also got scammed with ETHD and eBTC. So this comes in handy.

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October 19, 2017, 07:13:29 AM
 #194

These are basically what ICOs can be categorized. I would like to believe that more than 50 percent of ICOs right now are still legitimate. The rotten tomatoes are very few and these handful of rotten ICOs cannot simply pull down the reputation of ICOs. The majority of token or coins offered in ICOs can still give us a significant amount of profit in the end.

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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
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October 19, 2017, 12:13:27 PM
 #195

Hello Leo Mor,

Are you saying that one of the problems of Mutual insurance is that the “investments assets that can chosen by a few people to invest into”? Why is that a problem? What are you proposing? Are you proposing that all REGA users invest the premium pool?

Are you saying that REGA will invest its premium pool into Bitcoin and Ethers? Bitcoin has had 4 bubbles. Nobody knows if this if the 5th bubble. It went down for 2 years in 2014 and 2015. What if that happens again? How will REGA pay its claims if it loses 40-50% of its premium pool?

You wrote: “The excessive funds are returned back to the community by paying premiums back.” Mutual insurance companies do this already. Even then, rarely are they or other insurance companies able to pay premiums back. That’s why mutual insurance companies are small in numbers.

When an insured makes a claim, an adjuster physically visits the insured, inspects the damage and tries to prevent insurance fraud by customers. Are you going to have a fleet of adjusters? How will you build this staff and manage them? How will they be paid?
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October 19, 2017, 04:08:43 PM
 #196

Hi jlp. You have a great insight on ICOs.  I know i'm being bias since I'm part of the bounty but I think project related to e-sports such as Eloplay has a good shot in being successful in the future. What can you say about it Cheesy
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October 19, 2017, 07:30:11 PM
 #197

Hello Leo Mor,

Are you saying that one of the problems of Mutual insurance is that the “investments assets that can chosen by a few people to invest into”? Why is that a problem? What are you proposing? Are you proposing that all REGA users invest the premium pool?

Are you saying that REGA will invest its premium pool into Bitcoin and Ethers? Bitcoin has had 4 bubbles. Nobody knows if this if the 5th bubble. It went down for 2 years in 2014 and 2015. What if that happens again? How will REGA pay its claims if it loses 40-50% of its premium pool?

You wrote: “The excessive funds are returned back to the community by paying premiums back.” Mutual insurance companies do this already. Even then, rarely are they or other insurance companies able to pay premiums back. That’s why mutual insurance companies are small in numbers.

When an insured makes a claim, an adjuster physically visits the insured, inspects the damage and tries to prevent insurance fraud by customers. Are you going to have a fleet of adjusters? How will you build this staff and manage them? How will they be paid?

It is not a problem. It is just old fashioned way of financial industry to work. New technologies bring new capabilities and efficiencies.

REGA users will pool risk premiums together and decide on payments if smth happens to community members.

I wouldn't call Bitcoin movement as a bubble, rather corrections. Nothing will happen to risk pools as the risk is distributed, all risks shouldn't realise at once. The volatility with currency happens all the time, for example some foreign currencies depreciated twice in some countries. We expect crypto volatility will decrease with time.

Mutual insurance companies lack technological efficiencies as insurtech solutions have.

Claim adjustment in crowdsurance is done by expert voting on the platform, they vote with their tokens. Tokens will be traded on the exchanges, anyone can become an expert and recieve incentive from part of premiums they process. Sorry you missed that point, cause didn't care to go deeper inside the concept.
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October 19, 2017, 08:11:00 PM
 #198

It is not a problem. It is just old fashioned way of financial industry to work. New technologies bring new capabilities and efficiencies.

REGA users will pool risk premiums together and decide on payments if smth happens to community members.

I wouldn't call Bitcoin movement as a bubble, rather corrections. Nothing will happen to risk pools as the risk is distributed, all risks shouldn't realise at once. The volatility with currency happens all the time, for example some foreign currencies depreciated twice in some countries. We expect crypto volatility will decrease with time.

Mutual insurance companies lack technological efficiencies as insurtech solutions have.

Claim adjustment in crowdsurance is done by expert voting on the platform, they vote with their tokens. Tokens will be traded on the exchanges, anyone can become an expert and recieve incentive from part of premiums they process. Sorry you missed that point, cause didn't care to go deeper inside the concept.

Hello Leo Mor,

What capabilities and efficiencies will new technologies bring to the insurance business? Who or what is going to invest the premium pool? You refuse to answer this question.

You don’t have to call it a bubble if you don’t want. Bitcoin went down 40-50% for two years in 2014-2015. You alluded that your premium pool will be in Bitcoin. What happens if Bitcoin goes down 40-50% again for 2 years? How is REGA going to pay the claims?

So what if Mutual insurance companies lack technological efficiencies as insurtech solutions have. What are these technological efficiencies that will resolve the flaws with REGA that I had pointed out earlier?

Claim adjustment is done by voting? With what information are the token holders going to use to decide how to vote? Let’s say I’m an insured. I claim that my car is destroyed and I file a claim. How are the token holders going to verify that I’m telling the truth? Do I send in photos? If so, I can grab any photos from Google Images and defraud your token holders.

Let’s say my car is truly damaged. How will you ensure that I get it repaired at trustworthy body shops? How do you ensure that I do not send it to my cousin and tell him to over-charge REGA? How do you ensure that I sent you the real receipt, and not a fake one that I made up? Who is going to process these receipts and send the reimbursement to me?

If I was a token holder (voter), I would not want to review information from hundreds of claimants to ensure that they are not defrauding me or over-charging me. Even if your token holders are willing to do this, they are not trained adjusters. Are you going to send them to training school?

I read the white paper. If you want me to go deeper, you need to provide more information and especially good answers to my questions.

I think you’re missing the point. The REGA team didn’t care to go deeper inside the insurance business to understand how it works.

I don't think it's in your best interest to keep discussing REGA. The more we discuss it, the more flaws we uncover.
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October 19, 2017, 08:14:02 PM
 #199

very nice thread! The security of the ico is really important. I have witness many icos got hacked like coindash (inside job) insurex, pillar, DAo, and many others. I would say pick the strong icos and most hyped ones just to be safe.

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October 19, 2017, 10:31:05 PM
 #200

It is not a problem. It is just old fashioned way of financial industry to work. New technologies bring new capabilities and efficiencies.

REGA users will pool risk premiums together and decide on payments if smth happens to community members.

I wouldn't call Bitcoin movement as a bubble, rather corrections. Nothing will happen to risk pools as the risk is distributed, all risks shouldn't realise at once. The volatility with currency happens all the time, for example some foreign currencies depreciated twice in some countries. We expect crypto volatility will decrease with time.

Mutual insurance companies lack technological efficiencies as insurtech solutions have.

Claim adjustment in crowdsurance is done by expert voting on the platform, they vote with their tokens. Tokens will be traded on the exchanges, anyone can become an expert and recieve incentive from part of premiums they process. Sorry you missed that point, cause didn't care to go deeper inside the concept.

Hello Leo Mor,

What capabilities and efficiencies will new technologies bring to the insurance business? Who or what is going to invest the premium pool? You refuse to answer this question.

You don’t have to call it a bubble if you don’t want. Bitcoin went down 40-50% for two years in 2014-2015. You alluded that your premium pool will be in Bitcoin. What happens if Bitcoin goes down 40-50% again for 2 years? How is REGA going to pay the claims?

So what if Mutual insurance companies lack technological efficiencies as insurtech solutions have. What are these technological efficiencies that will resolve the flaws with REGA that I had pointed out earlier?

Claim adjustment is done by voting? With what information are the token holders going to use to decide how to vote? Let’s say I’m an insured. I claim that my car is destroyed and I file a claim. How are the token holders going to verify that I’m telling the truth? Do I send in photos? If so, I can grab any photos from Google Images and defraud your token holders.

Let’s say my car is truly damaged. How will you ensure that I get it repaired at trustworthy body shops? How do you ensure that I do not send it to my cousin and tell him to over-charge REGA? How do you ensure that I sent you the real receipt, and not a fake one that I made up? Who is going to process these receipts and send the reimbursement to me?

If I was a token holder (voter), I would not want to review information from hundreds of claimants to ensure that they are not defrauding me or over-charging me. Even if your token holders are willing to do this, they are not trained adjusters. Are you going to send them to training school?

I read the white paper. If you want me to go deeper, you need to provide more information and especially good answers to my questions.

I think you’re missing the point. The REGA team didn’t care to go deeper inside the insurance business to understand how it works.

I don't think it's in your best interest to keep discussing REGA. The more we discuss it, the more flaws we uncover.

I would still want to address those issues to make it clear. Sorry to bother you.

New technologies that are brought to the market: smart-contracts technology, information stored in public Blockchain, risk segmentation through scoring system, machine learning technology supported by Microsoft (our partner), oracles concept connected to IoT.

Insured member pool will invest his premium into mutual pool represented by smart-contract in Blockchain.

REGA started not from cars, but from pets, which is less risky product and more social. Car crowdsurance claim adjustment can be realized through telematic hardware connected to smart-contracts to know exactly if the accident happened. Claim adjusters in insurance companies also check basic facts, no sophistication. Here the information about the claim is stored safely in Blockchain.

Investment assets of Russian insurance companies also depreciated 50% as the currency depreciated, it is a risk but he is manageable. As i said before even if the crypto went down for a month, still all the accidents don't happen at once. All transactions are traceable and transparent in Blockchain compared to traditional insurance companies that sometimes hide the transactions behind insolvent balance sheets.

And about our "not going deeper" in insurance market, let me point out that Team members been working in insurance companies and banks for more than 15 years. Head of the biggest Insurance company in Russia Sberbank Insurance is part of the Advisory board, as well as Jake Diner, insurtech professional from Silicon valley.
Please investigate.

For you to get closer to the concept please consider  reading provided professional article about insurance on Blockchain.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ztie24ezn1lejll/Chain_Of_A_Lifetime_December2014.pdf?dl=0

Thank you
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