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Author Topic: The Supply of Bitcoin Is Limited. The Supply of Cryptos Isn't!  (Read 1895 times)
BobK71
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October 06, 2017, 09:35:06 PM
 #1

So, if Bitcoin really takes off, we think we have an honest, state-free money.  No central bank, or anyone, can create bitcoins past the 21 million limit.

Correct?  In practice, no.

What Western central banks are doing now is getting us used to the idea of multiple cryptocurrencies being viable.  When they use their printed money to buy some new cryptos, their values go up.  

One simple example of how they can continue to expand their money supply is to have a basket of cryptos against which they 'manage' exchange rates with dollars, euro, etc.  Say, at first this basket contains 1 BTC, 10 ETH, and 100 LTC, and the Fed and US government have an official or unofficial policy of keeping this basket at the price of $100K, with a combination of keeping money printing and public debt under control, and selling the BTC/ETH/LTC in its vaults to scare savers away from moving their dollars into coins.

As time goes on, the Fed will want to create more dollars.  (As it always has.)  Then they will  buy up lots of new cryptocurrency XYZ (cheap) with their dollars, and raise the price of XYZ.  After XYZ has 'proven itself in the market with its technical superiority,' the Fed will add it to the basket, and the new basket will be priced at $120K.  Since the 'base money' has expanded by 20%, the number of dollars can also be expanded by 20%.

This is only one of many variations.  The Fed doesn't even have to declare a basket (as mentioned above.)  Whatever it buys will rise in value, and will become part of the 'basket'.  Whatever it abandons will die out.  It will have all the power.

The system will be no different from the early days of gold and silver standards, but with a new twist: there are an unlimited number of new gold and silver mines, and only central banks know where they are!

So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.
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October 06, 2017, 10:08:02 PM
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No doubt that cryptos can ensure some regulatory freedom as it is not limited physically like gold or silver. However, the unlimited supply of altcoins is not good for the overall crypto community. We are seeing new altcoins are popping up every single day and flooding the market where most of them are worthless and makes no sense to buy. This way the investments are getting divided into thousand fractions. If we had only a handful of altcoins with proper marketing plans and roadmap, that would be much beneficial for the crypto community. If we can't control this trend, then millions of altcoins will flood the market which will eventually bring down the worth and reliability of crypto currency market.

   
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October 06, 2017, 10:57:04 PM
 #3

I'd agree, it's been a concern for me.

Other than faith, only thing that could really tie people to one or another is a major monopoly adopting one or another as I see it, e.g.: If people could only purchase food with pepes, then pepes would be 'the' coin.


So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.

Just not this part. I'd say they are far less practical to use as currency, but unlike crypto or fiat they have true inherent value.

I'm not sure there's such a thing as freedom in this world, at least not while one is to live in society.
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October 06, 2017, 11:05:30 PM
 #4

No doubt that cryptos can ensure some regulatory freedom as it is not limited physically like gold or silver. However, the unlimited supply of altcoins is not good for the overall crypto community. We are seeing new altcoins are popping up every single day and flooding the market where most of them are worthless and makes no sense to buy. This way the investments are getting divided into thousand fractions. If we had only a handful of altcoins with proper marketing plans and roadmap, that would be much beneficial for the crypto community. If we can't control this trend, then millions of altcoins will flood the market which will eventually bring down the worth and reliability of crypto currency market.
Ive been thinking this thing too considering on the supply of cryptos compared on valuable asset or investment on this physical world. Even we would differentiate or compare it to local fiat currencies which do have still limited supply and creating one wont really be that easy unlike on crypto as long you do have the knowledge on making an altcoin then you are good to go which as being said it would divide potential investors or adopters because of thousands of new coins are popping out.
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October 06, 2017, 11:23:44 PM
 #5

But the only problem is gold and silver, along with other precious stones and metals are being held secure by the Feds and the bankers, so that option is also a no-go for those who doesn't want to be controlled 'again' by these entities. Also, we are rather uncertain about the Fed's and the banks' involvement in several cryptos, but we cannot rule them out as again, these scums will take part in almost anything just to control the people. This is also a concerning thing about crypto since there's always a loophole in which these guys can fit in no matter how small it is.

Been pondering about these things in a while, and it seems that no matter how far we distance ourselves against these greedy bastards, they'd always find a way to get involved and control us.

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October 07, 2017, 09:13:42 AM
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So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.

The scarcity from crypto comes from mathmatics.  Physics which secures gold like you say is also a conceptual study at its core.  The physical reality makes gold have its current value.  Crypto currently has network effects, hashing power and intelligent community backing it - those a pretty decent things for 2017.  At some point in the future gold could easily become worthless via space travel or our ability to create gold properties with technology.
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October 07, 2017, 09:41:52 AM
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But the only problem is gold and silver, along with other precious stones and metals are being held secure by the Feds and the bankers, so that option is also a no-go for those who doesn't want to be controlled 'again' by these entities. Also, we are rather uncertain about the Fed's and the banks' involvement in several cryptos, but we cannot rule them out as again, these scums will take part in almost anything just to control the people. This is also a concerning thing about crypto since there's always a loophole in which these guys can fit in no matter how small it is.

Been pondering about these things in a while, and it seems that no matter how far we distance ourselves against these greedy bastards, they'd always find a way to get involved and control us.
Bastards control us because we allow them to do so. Look how many people on the forum dreaming about the legalization of bitcoin. They do not understand that they themselves give themselves into the hands of these bastards? Maybe people have as Pets are accustomed to their controlled hosts and can't live without it?

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October 07, 2017, 09:58:49 AM
 #8

Banks seem to struggle enough with baskets of currencies and stocks, where in theory it should be easier to explain price movements. It wouldn't make much sense to get into such a high risk area as multiple cryptocurrencies that have too many unknown variables. The whole market seems to be in an over-inflated bubble at the moment and when the music stops, the big banks need to be far away.

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October 07, 2017, 09:59:19 AM
 #9

a lot of people keep talking about freedom in their money,no central bank and no goverment behind it,
but they forgot about the real value of Bitcoin itself and why it existed.
no matter what will happen,it will never replace our Fiat.
and with the time they will make a breakthrough,which mean someday they will be regulated all exchanger in order to track it down.
be realistic and stick to the plan.
no wonder many people said it's a bubble and a lot of people afraid of it,because the majority did not really understand how it works and what will it be

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October 07, 2017, 10:01:41 AM
 #10

So, if Bitcoin really takes off, we think we have an honest, state-free money.  No central bank, or anyone, can create bitcoins past the 21 million limit.

Correct?  In practice, no.

What Western central banks are doing now is getting us used to the idea of multiple cryptocurrencies being viable.  When they use their printed money to buy some new cryptos, their values go up.  

One simple example of how they can continue to expand their money supply is to have a basket of cryptos against which they 'manage' exchange rates with dollars, euro, etc.  Say, at first this basket contains 1 BTC, 10 ETH, and 100 LTC, and the Fed and US government have an official or unofficial policy of keeping this basket at the price of $100K, with a combination of keeping money printing and public debt under control, and selling the BTC/ETH/LTC in its vaults to scare savers away from moving their dollars into coins.

As time goes on, the Fed will want to create more dollars.  (As it always has.)  Then they will  buy up lots of new cryptocurrency XYZ (cheap) with their dollars, and raise the price of XYZ.  After XYZ has 'proven itself in the market with its technical superiority,' the Fed will add it to the basket, and the new basket will be priced at $120K.  Since the 'base money' has expanded by 20%, the number of dollars can also be expanded by 20%.

This is only one of many variations.  The Fed doesn't even have to declare a basket (as mentioned above.)  Whatever it buys will rise in value, and will become part of the 'basket'.  Whatever it abandons will die out.  It will have all the power.

The system will be no different from the early days of gold and silver standards, but with a new twist: there are an unlimited number of new gold and silver mines, and only central banks know where they are!

So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.


Their pump and dump might with small altcoins, but will it work with Bitcoin? There are quite a few backers of Bitcoin who will remain with it, even during a Central Bank dump. In your metals analogy, there are a lot of metals which central banks could buy, but that won't impact the price of gold.

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October 07, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
 #11

But the only problem is gold and silver, along with other precious stones and metals are being held secure by the Feds and the bankers, so that option is also a no-go for those who doesn't want to be controlled 'again' by these entities. Also, we are rather uncertain about the Fed's and the banks' involvement in several cryptos, but we cannot rule them out as again, these scums will take part in almost anything just to control the people. This is also a concerning thing about crypto since there's always a loophole in which these guys can fit in no matter how small it is.

Been pondering about these things in a while, and it seems that no matter how far we distance ourselves against these greedy bastards, they'd always find a way to get involved and control us.
Bastards control us because we allow them to do so. Look how many people on the forum dreaming about the legalization of bitcoin. They do not understand that they themselves give themselves into the hands of these bastards? Maybe people have as Pets are accustomed to their controlled hosts and can't live without it?

Well you can't really blame someone for it since it's already embedded within our genes. Since the beginning of civilization, we have already submitted ourselves to someone of our own kind and have blindly trusted them because of their colorful words and promises. Dreaming of flexible bitcoin regulations is also one way of submitting ourselves to their own control, but can we do anything? We can't do anything but comply and submit. It has occurred to me that no matter how positive these regulations seem at first sight, it's still is another way of controlling and fucking us in the arse.

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October 07, 2017, 11:20:41 AM
 #12

But the only problem is gold and silver, along with other precious stones and metals are being held secure by the Feds and the bankers, so that option is also a no-go for those who doesn't want to be controlled 'again' by these entities. Also, we are rather uncertain about the Fed's and the banks' involvement in several cryptos, but we cannot rule them out as again, these scums will take part in almost anything just to control the people. This is also a concerning thing about crypto since there's always a loophole in which these guys can fit in no matter how small it is.

Been pondering about these things in a while, and it seems that no matter how far we distance ourselves against these greedy bastards, they'd always find a way to get involved and control us.
Bastards control us because we allow them to do so. Look how many people on the forum dreaming about the legalization of bitcoin. They do not understand that they themselves give themselves into the hands of these bastards? Maybe people have as Pets are accustomed to their controlled hosts and can't live without it?

I don’t see your point here. For me, it’s not about dreaming, it’s about what will happen.

Governments do know about the existence of cryptos, so they only have two choices: 1) Regulate them 2) Forbid them. The third choice would be to leave them unregulated, but that’s not going to stay like that for a long time because it’s money escaping from the system.

If they forbid them, people using cryptos for non-criminal purposes become criminals and if they regulate them those same people are within the law.

There will always be paths to avoid control from the system. You can use fiat money to evade tax and commit crimes or to pay tax and run legal businesses. The same happens with cryptos.

So, I don’t see why you consider people who prefer legalization as controlled pets.
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October 07, 2017, 01:04:39 PM
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i really doubt anything remotely like that can happen.

you know the act of creating something doesn't make it good or even worthy of attention. you think you can create (as you put it) "new gold and silver" without any limit, but the fact of the matter is that you can not. what you will be creating is shit. that is why the term "shitcoin" exists.
when something has no usage, nothing to offer and is just copy, it is shit!

and in case limitless number of cryptocurrencies are created just to have that "new gold and silver" it is simply going to fail. you can't really paint iron yellow and call it gold.














 

 

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October 07, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
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But the only problem is gold and silver, along with other precious stones and metals are being held secure by the Feds and the bankers, so that option is also a no-go for those who doesn't want to be controlled 'again' by these entities. Also, we are rather uncertain about the Fed's and the banks' involvement in several cryptos, but we cannot rule them out as again, these scums will take part in almost anything just to control the people. This is also a concerning thing about crypto since there's always a loophole in which these guys can fit in no matter how small it is.

Been pondering about these things in a while, and it seems that no matter how far we distance ourselves against these greedy bastards, they'd always find a way to get involved and control us.
Bastards control us because we allow them to do so. Look how many people on the forum dreaming about the legalization of bitcoin. They do not understand that they themselves give themselves into the hands of these bastards? Maybe people have as Pets are accustomed to their controlled hosts and can't live without it?

I don’t see your point here. For me, it’s not about dreaming, it’s about what will happen.

Governments do know about the existence of cryptos, so they only have two choices: 1) Regulate them 2) Forbid them. The third choice would be to leave them unregulated, but that’s not going to stay like that for a long time because it’s money escaping from the system.

If they forbid them, people using cryptos for non-criminal purposes become criminals and if they regulate them those same people are within the law.

There will always be paths to avoid control from the system. You can use fiat money to evade tax and commit crimes or to pay tax and run legal businesses. The same happens with cryptos.

So, I don’t see why you consider people who prefer legalization as controlled pets.


Agree. Governments legalising Bitcoin and imposing minimal regulations is the best way forward for wide spread adoption. According to the governments, fiat money, legal tender, Bitcoin, illegal tender, so obviously when Bitcoin is converted to fiat, interference from governments is expected. It is inevitable.

Bitcoin is ideologically and technologically designed not to get accustomed to direct centralized policies and regulations so even though it will get indirectly regulated it isn't going to affect its decentralization and still Bitcoin users would be immune to the negative impacts of a flawed monetary system.

Bitcoin adoption has yet to reach to the point where governments would think twice about banning it. To the point where Bitcoin can strongly resist any harsh regulations from the governments without hindering its adoption. As far as governments take a Bitcoin friendly stance, it's all good, nothing wrong about legalization.

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October 07, 2017, 03:38:41 PM
 #15

i really doubt anything remotely like that can happen.

you know the act of creating something doesn't make it good or even worthy of attention. you think you can create (as you put it) "new gold and silver" without any limit, but the fact of the matter is that you can not. what you will be creating is shit. that is why the term "shitcoin" exists.
when something has no usage, nothing to offer and is just copy, it is shit!

and in case limitless number of cryptocurrencies are created just to have that "new gold and silver" it is simply going to fail. you can't really paint iron yellow and call it gold.
That is correct. Just if go and take some stone available in enough quantity and name it gold 2.0 and put a price tag on it, that doesn't mean that it people will buy that and essentially it will be worth Nothing.
Same will happen with the XYZ crypto in OP's situation, the government just can't control exactly the price of a crypto for that to happen they would need to own almost all of the crypto and if they own it all then there is no point of that crypto. A new crypto can't just be created to replace BTC, or to essentially increase the number of btc over 21 million.
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October 07, 2017, 03:43:06 PM
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No doubt that cryptos can ensure some regulatory freedom as it is not limited physically like gold or silver. However, the unlimited supply of altcoins is not good for the overall crypto community. We are seeing new altcoins are popping up every single day and flooding the market where most of them are worthless and makes no sense to buy. This way the investments are getting divided into thousand fractions. If we had only a handful of altcoins with proper marketing plans and roadmap, that would be much beneficial for the crypto community. If we can't control this trend, then millions of altcoins will flood the market which will eventually bring down the worth and reliability of crypto currency market.

Mate, you are quite right. I think the regulations if any, should be how to check some worthless cryptos flooding the market. The flooding of some of these cryptos in the market are debacle in the future of some of the valued coins. This could lead to a pulling down of the bitcoin or other coins. I really would not like to mention any name but definitely, we know some of them.

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October 07, 2017, 05:14:49 PM
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But the only problem is gold and silver, along with other precious stones and metals are being held secure by the Feds and the bankers, so that option is also a no-go for those who doesn't want to be controlled 'again' by these entities. Also, we are rather uncertain about the Fed's and the banks' involvement in several cryptos, but we cannot rule them out as again, these scums will take part in almost anything just to control the people. This is also a concerning thing about crypto since there's always a loophole in which these guys can fit in no matter how small it is.

Been pondering about these things in a while, and it seems that no matter how far we distance ourselves against these greedy bastards, they'd always find a way to get involved and control us.
Bastards control us because we allow them to do so. Look how many people on the forum dreaming about the legalization of bitcoin. They do not understand that they themselves give themselves into the hands of these bastards? Maybe people have as Pets are accustomed to their controlled hosts and can't live without it?

Well you can't really blame someone for it since it's already embedded within our genes. Since the beginning of civilization, we have already submitted ourselves to someone of our own kind and have blindly trusted them because of their colorful words and promises. Dreaming of flexible bitcoin regulations is also one way of submitting ourselves to their own control, but can we do anything? We can't do anything but comply and submit. It has occurred to me that no matter how positive these regulations seem at first sight, it's still is another way of controlling and fucking us in the arse.

Truely, regulation is regulation no matter how loose we think it could come or be. A loose or small regulation ,cumulates into another to a bigger one and bitcoin starts getting affected, off course would lose it intent of freedom.

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October 07, 2017, 05:23:25 PM
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So, if Bitcoin really takes off, we think we have an honest, state-free money.  No central bank, or anyone, can create bitcoins past the 21 million limit.

Correct?  In practice, no.

What Western central banks are doing now is getting us used to the idea of multiple cryptocurrencies being viable.  When they use their printed money to buy some new cryptos, their values go up.  

One simple example of how they can continue to expand their money supply is to have a basket of cryptos against which they 'manage' exchange rates with dollars, euro, etc.  Say, at first this basket contains 1 BTC, 10 ETH, and 100 LTC, and the Fed and US government have an official or unofficial policy of keeping this basket at the price of $100K, with a combination of keeping money printing and public debt under control, and selling the BTC/ETH/LTC in its vaults to scare savers away from moving their dollars into coins.

As time goes on, the Fed will want to create more dollars.  (As it always has.)  Then they will  buy up lots of new cryptocurrency XYZ (cheap) with their dollars, and raise the price of XYZ.  After XYZ has 'proven itself in the market with its technical superiority,' the Fed will add it to the basket, and the new basket will be priced at $120K.  Since the 'base money' has expanded by 20%, the number of dollars can also be expanded by 20%.

This is only one of many variations.  The Fed doesn't even have to declare a basket (as mentioned above.)  Whatever it buys will rise in value, and will become part of the 'basket'.  Whatever it abandons will die out.  It will have all the power.

The system will be no different from the early days of gold and silver standards, but with a new twist: there are an unlimited number of new gold and silver mines, and only central banks know where they are!

So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.


Look man, if it makes you feel better, just look at these things like this: no matter what we do, no matter how hard we try, and no matter what currency gets invented that may look like the most amazing one that has ever been made, we will still be enslaved by the feds and banks. We will never ever get their chains off of us. So better to just accept that fact and ride along so we can enjoy rather than thinking too much about things we cannot control nor change.

lordquanta
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October 07, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
 #19

So, if Bitcoin really takes off, we think we have an honest, state-free money.  No central bank, or anyone, can create bitcoins past the 21 million limit.

Correct?  In practice, no.

What Western central banks are doing now is getting us used to the idea of multiple cryptocurrencies being viable.  When they use their printed money to buy some new cryptos, their values go up.  

One simple example of how they can continue to expand their money supply is to have a basket of cryptos against which they 'manage' exchange rates with dollars, euro, etc.  Say, at first this basket contains 1 BTC, 10 ETH, and 100 LTC, and the Fed and US government have an official or unofficial policy of keeping this basket at the price of $100K, with a combination of keeping money printing and public debt under control, and selling the BTC/ETH/LTC in its vaults to scare savers away from moving their dollars into coins.

As time goes on, the Fed will want to create more dollars.  (As it always has.)  Then they will  buy up lots of new cryptocurrency XYZ (cheap) with their dollars, and raise the price of XYZ.  After XYZ has 'proven itself in the market with its technical superiority,' the Fed will add it to the basket, and the new basket will be priced at $120K.  Since the 'base money' has expanded by 20%, the number of dollars can also be expanded by 20%.

This is only one of many variations.  The Fed doesn't even have to declare a basket (as mentioned above.)  Whatever it buys will rise in value, and will become part of the 'basket'.  Whatever it abandons will die out.  It will have all the power.

The system will be no different from the early days of gold and silver standards, but with a new twist: there are an unlimited number of new gold and silver mines, and only central banks know where they are!

So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.
Your theory has valid points, and some may refer it as conspiracy theory as well. When bitcoin started to get momentum there were many conspiracy theories against it. What you mention is just one way of big banks and finance houses to turn the table in their side. Of course they may be working other ways as well.  These kind of basket tricks are for those who are too much greedy. People who are in bitcoin and have strong believe in it will stay away from the alt-crypto.
Talking about other crypto that is alt-crypto, there were many attempts to replicate the success of bitcoin but noone succeed. There are some coins which claim to be the rightful heir of satoshi's true bitcoin theory. However people still have confidence in the bitcoin. Thus there are less chances of bitcoin getting affected that much with this.
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October 07, 2017, 05:51:00 PM
 #20

So, if Bitcoin really takes off, we think we have an honest, state-free money.  No central bank, or anyone, can create bitcoins past the 21 million limit.

Correct?  In practice, no.

What Western central banks are doing now is getting us used to the idea of multiple cryptocurrencies being viable.  When they use their printed money to buy some new cryptos, their values go up.  

One simple example of how they can continue to expand their money supply is to have a basket of cryptos against which they 'manage' exchange rates with dollars, euro, etc.  Say, at first this basket contains 1 BTC, 10 ETH, and 100 LTC, and the Fed and US government have an official or unofficial policy of keeping this basket at the price of $100K, with a combination of keeping money printing and public debt under control, and selling the BTC/ETH/LTC in its vaults to scare savers away from moving their dollars into coins.

As time goes on, the Fed will want to create more dollars.  (As it always has.)  Then they will  buy up lots of new cryptocurrency XYZ (cheap) with their dollars, and raise the price of XYZ.  After XYZ has 'proven itself in the market with its technical superiority,' the Fed will add it to the basket, and the new basket will be priced at $120K.  Since the 'base money' has expanded by 20%, the number of dollars can also be expanded by 20%.

This is only one of many variations.  The Fed doesn't even have to declare a basket (as mentioned above.)  Whatever it buys will rise in value, and will become part of the 'basket'.  Whatever it abandons will die out.  It will have all the power.

The system will be no different from the early days of gold and silver standards, but with a new twist: there are an unlimited number of new gold and silver mines, and only central banks know where they are!

So, I'm still thinking that gold and silver, whose scarcity is secured by physics, rather than computer code, are the superior forms of money for improving our freedom from governments and bankers.


Look man, if it makes you feel better, just look at these things like this: no matter what we do, no matter how hard we try, and no matter what currency gets invented that may look like the most amazing one that has ever been made, we will still be enslaved by the feds and banks. We will never ever get their chains off of us. So better to just accept that fact and ride along so we can enjoy rather than thinking too much about things we cannot control nor change.
I agree into your point on which it would be always been part of our life into this kind of position on where feds and banks would really enslaved and connected to us.No matter how you strive you cant do anything and you are really just stressing yourself out.

Platio
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