Would you sleep with me for $100, No? how about $1,000,000. Maybe?

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

So now we learned that you are a prostitute, we just need to wrangle over price...

Bitcoin is a payment system that can be bought. Dont give me this "but were decentralized bullshit"

If and when the corporations/govt want to make bitcoin usable and stable enough for the world to conduct commerce it can bid its price up so it no longer a shallow pool(yes we early adopters will win a bunch debt/military based money) But they will own enough coins to stabalize the price, removing any notion this is gold 2.0

They will destroy any weak hands.

Unless bitcoin has its own value not attached to that of fiat, It become just another payment option.

[Kazimir]

Dude, you're getting paranoid. There is nothing to buy, own, or control. Not for anyone, or any government, or any authority.

Bitcoin is a payment system that can be bought.

From who? And what exactly do they buy?

Similarly - can BitTorrent be bought, seized, controlled, or otherwise manipulated? And obviously I don't mean client X or website Y, but the entire BitTorrent protocol in general, as it is being used worldwide since many years now. Do you think it's any different with Bitcoin?

[oakpacific]

So now we learned that you are a prostitute, we just need to wrangle over price...

Bitcoin is a payment system that can be bought. Dont give me this "but were decentralized bullshit"

If and when the corporations/govt want to make bitcoin usable and stable enough for the world to conduct commerce it can bid its price up so it no longer a shallow pool(yes we early adopters will win a bunch debt/military based money) But they will own enough coins to stabalize the price, removing any notion this is gold 2.0

They will destroy any weak hands.

Unless bitcoin has its own value not attached to that of fiat, It become just another payment option.

You thought you are the master of the prostitute, actually, she is your master.

When you go all out like this to get my bitcoins, things will then have to be arranged on my terms, and I will make sure you are the sucker in the end.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

Dude, you're getting paranoid. There is nothing to buy, own, or control. Not for anyone, or any government, or any authority.

Bitcoin is a payment system that can be bought.

From who? And what exactly do they buy?

Similarly - can BitTorrent be bought, seized, controlled, or otherwise manipulated? And obviously I don't mean client X or website Y, but the entire BitTorrent protocol in general, as it is being used worldwide since many years now. Do you think it's any different with Bitcoin?

They bid up the price, and you sell your bitcoin to them, they control and manipulate the price(liquidity) from then on with their unlimited fiat and deeper pockets than anyone else in the world.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

The only tangible outcome I can see is some form of guerrilla warfare, new fork, alt coin. If bitcoin constantly gets disrupted itself, crytocurrencies will lose all legitmacy.

[Kazimir]

They bid up the price, and you sell your bitcoin to them, they control and manipulate the price(liquidity) from then on with their unlimited fiat and deeper pockets than anyone else in the world.

The price in old fashioned fiat money, you mean. Which has exactly nothing to do with Bitcoin itself. They don't control Bitcoin at all, just the price expressed in fiat which they already controlled anyway (that was in fact the main reason for Bitcoin to begin with).

And even if they bid up the price, Bitcoin will keep working just fine. I certainly won't sell all of my bitcoins, and many people with me.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

They bid up the price, and you sell your bitcoin to them, they control and manipulate the price(liquidity) from then on with their unlimited fiat and deeper pockets than anyone else in the world.

The price in old fashioned fiat money, you mean. Which has exactly nothing to do with Bitcoin itself. They don't control Bitcoin at all, just the price expressed in fiat which they already controlled anyway (that was in fact the main reason for Bitcoin to begin with).

And even if they bid up the price, Bitcoin will keep working just fine. I certainly won't sell all of my bitcoins, and many people with me.

I want to start a factory turning raw materials into refined widgets and sell them around the world?

How do I determine what these widgets are worth in BTC. Keep in mind I do not enjoy pricing my goods in fiat because the price may get inflated away and I may be put out of business if I am not invested on the correct side of the market.

If I charge my bitcoin in dollar denominated price, All my business agreement and numbers, prices, become a circus to calculate. One day I make a lot of bitcoin. The next day I do same amount of business but bitcoin is worth more so i make less bitcoin(deflation), bernanke stops printing, interest rates rise, bitcoin becomes weak again. People do not spend bitcoin because they do not know what it is worth, and would hate to buy a pizza for 10,000 bitcoins, only to learn that was a dumb dumb idea.

Gold and barter are starting to sound very nice. I am sure some farmers will accept gold/barter/labor for their carrots.

If bitcoin gets bought by the mainstream, our financial issues become EXTREME... Bitcoin might be the ledger to reign in the out of control-ness of the fiat.

Is bitcoin a gift of the gods, or a beginning of the end.  

Anyone moving out of fiat, into cryptocurrency today, I think is a wise hedge/bet. It cost little and its powers are unknown, potentially revolutionary. I am not sure that it speaks to a good future either. It is a litmus for how bad things really are.

Most people will never know or understand hashing, blockchain, encyption, public key/private key. And they will essentially be asked to choose to buy in, not knowing/understanding what it is they are buying..

The dollar was forced on us, therefore we get to use it without understanding it(most people)

[Stephen Gornick]

yes we early adopters will win a bunch debt/military based money

You presume those cashing out bitcoins for fiat then store that value in fiat.   We don't know where those funds land.   If they stay as fiat then they are available to buy back some coins should the exchange rate drop again in the future.     Other times they are going into other forms of value, such as precious metals, or investment, etc.

The reason it isn't a problem that people will sell some bitcoins after there are gains in the purchasing power is because with Bitcoin the system isn't set up to enrich the money changers.   In the U.S. there are many tens of billions in banking fees (monthly account fees, NSF fees, etc.) and that fiat banking system enriches the bankers.   Bitcoin has transaction fees but they are tiny fraction of the amount the banks get and they go to those who openly compete to earn those fees.

In other words, fiat money goes back to the bankers a fraction at a time with each transaction.   With Bitcoin this isn't the case -- so if there are parties who want to acquire bitcoins they are paying market prices for them and gaining them that way.

But once they have them they have no advantage over anyone else anyway.   It isn't just those who hold bitcoins that have ultimate power, it is those who are willing to buy the miner's proceeds ... they, the economic majority, are what will remain decentralized.
 - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/8435/153

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

yes we early adopters will win a bunch debt/military based money

You presume those cashing out bitcoins for fiat then store that value in fiat.   We don't know where those funds land.   If they stay as fiat then they are available to buy back some coins should the exchange rate drop again in the future.     Other times they are going into other forms of value, such as precious metals, or investment, etc.

The reason it isn't a problem that people will sell some bitcoins after there are gains in the purchasing power is because with Bitcoin the system isn't set up to enrich the money changers.   In the U.S. there are many tens of billions in banking fees (monthly account fees, NSF fees, etc.) and that fiat banking system enriches the bankers.   Bitcoin has transaction fees but they are tiny fraction of the amount the banks get and they go to those who openly compete to earn those fees.

In other words, fiat money goes back to the bankers a fraction at a time with each transaction.   With Bitcoin this isn't the case -- so if there are parties who want to acquire bitcoins they are paying market prices for them and gaining them that way.

But once they have them they have no advantage over anyone else anyway.   It isn't just those who hold bitcoins that have ultimate power, it is those who are willing to buy the miner's proceeds ... they, the economic majority, are what will remain decentralized.
 - http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/8435/153

So if you are a low level trader for goldman sachs, why not buy a few hundred bitcoins for shits n giggles. CEO's with deep pockets etc etc,

[franky1]

technically everything has a price.

buying up MTGOX gets the buyer the trademark bitcoin
buying up the bitcoin foundation gets the buyer the main client program
buying up electrum gets the buyer the second main client program
buying up blockchain.info gets the buyer the main hot wallet API caller(third main client service)

yes i know there are freedoms for people to then re-invent new clients that ignore any new rules a new buyer of the above brings to the system and we then just let them play with their little fork and this new re-invention by the masses uses the original rules fork, but communicating the changes and getting everything moved across would cause some disruption which could then be used to manipulate the markets on the mass fork.

and yes i know that within an hour-week the manipulation may settle down. but who knows, the manipulation may have been enough to gather a large quantity of bitcoin.

not impossible for world governments to combine their efforts to achieve this.. just impractical and unnessessary, after all if they did get a full victory.. there is always litecoin

[BlueNote]

Dude, you're getting paranoid. There is nothing to buy, own, or control. Not for anyone, or any government, or any authority.

Bitcoin is a payment system that can be bought.

From who? And what exactly do they buy?

Similarly - can BitTorrent be bought, seized, controlled, or otherwise manipulated? And obviously I don't mean client X or website Y, but the entire BitTorrent protocol in general, as it is being used worldwide since many years now. Do you think it's any different with Bitcoin?

They bid up the price, and you sell your bitcoin to them, they control and manipulate the price(liquidity) from then on with their unlimited fiat and deeper pockets than anyone else in the world.

Yeah, they could bid up the price and then buy all or most of us out easily, then crash the market, or whatever. Bernanke is creating $85 billion a month with his little finger. It's nothing to them.

But what would be the point? People could migrate to Litecoin then, or Bitcoin 2. It's just a program and the program is open source. It can be forked or re-started over and over again.

I personally wouldn't mind repeatedly getting paid to invest in crypto.

[lophie]

So now we learned that you are a prostitute, we just need to wrangle over price...

sigh...... kids these days ruining up forums and stuff....