The Puerto Rican Situation, Or A Clear Example Of Why Bitcoin Is Not Perfect

[GreenBits]

I always get a good chuckle when I read the "is bitcoin better than gold" themed threads, or "will bitcoin replace fiat"? the answer to both of those questions is conditional; gold in my book just works better as a long term store of value, respective of security, utility and liquidity.

bitcoin wont replace fiat because fiat has unique advantage, being an ultimately liquidable bearer bond.

Puerto Rico is a prefect example of some of the issues with adopting bitcoin as a major currency.

There is no electricity in the majority of the territory. Bitcoin, being digital information, certainly requires electricity; assume that no one is mining, running a node, or making a transaction.

In this time of crisis, cell traffic is straining capacity. if you do have power and a source of connectivity, you would have a deal pushing out a transaction.

no one in there right mind would accept bitcoin for a vital good right now. people are waiting in lines for hours for the promise of gas, there is no way in Hell a sane body would accept value they might not be able to use themselves. it be like getting a paycheck in diamonds; once you figure out how hard it is to convert diamonds to "bill payin" money, you will quickly opt into direct deposit 

banks are restricting capital withdrawals, and have limited hours. even if you were able to use a local exchange system like LBC, if you need a bank, you are fucked 

thoughts?

[GreenBits]

No one bit  I really wanted to hear some community thoughts on this, we have a lot of "bitcoin is god" folks and I love to pop that bubble 

[Exister]

seems to me that puerto rico is in a plenty bad situation even though they are not currently on bitcoin.

being on bitcoin would provide some helpful side benefits such as seeking information from the internet instead of from the television in a case where it could pay to be better informed about the world. possibly having a better chance to have evacuated.

having the timely information and resources in puerto rico, the best decision would have been to evacuate.

For the unfortunate ones who are stuck in the bad situation, it is a time for the community to come together and help each other without regard for expenses. this is an alternative incentive.

If the whole world suddenly becomes like puerto rico all at once fiat or gold wont save you. you will have more pressing concerns than your wealth.

[Hydrogen]

Interesting & good points, OP.

There are many who support eliminating paper fiat and switching only to electronic based transactions. I would guess puerto rico would have been no better off as a cashless society. Puerto Rico's main issue could be poor leadership, having no viable plans for dealing with hurricanes despite being in a high risk natural disaster area and this being the season for large, powerful, storms.

With a decent proportion of infrastructure and electrical sources demolished, there may still not be enough infrastructure devoted towards precious metals, gemstones & other valuables having utility in markets. A person could have 100 pounds of gold stored in their basement in puerto rico and they still might not be able to use it to buy or sell anything. Precious metals need more mainstream acceptance & utility if their value is to increase.

[XbladeX]

***
bitcoin wont replace fiat because fiat has unique advantage, being an ultimately liquidable bearer bond.
***

becouse BTC is not not widelay actepted and even 1MB rule is bloking it.
Without LN at end we can dream in adoptation to ases BTC.
We need half of eath using BTC to be able avoid fiat barrier.
Gold is also not perfet is easier to fake... worst asset to sell - you lose % on swap.

[sk33ty]

seems to me that puerto rico is in a plenty bad situation even though they are not currently on bitcoin.

being on bitcoin would provide some helpful side benefits such as seeking information from the internet instead of from the television in a case where it could pay to be better informed about the world. possibly having a better chance to have evacuated.

having the timely information and resources in puerto rico, the best decision would have been to evacuate.

For the unfortunate ones who are stuck in the bad situation, it is a time for the community to come together and help each other without regard for expenses. this is an alternative incentive.

If the whole world suddenly becomes like puerto rico all at once fiat or gold wont save you. you will have more pressing concerns than your wealth.

Without regard for expenses? I'd like to believe people are that philanthropic in general, but I don't think so.

[Exister]

seems to me that puerto rico is in a plenty bad situation even though they are not currently on bitcoin.

being on bitcoin would provide some helpful side benefits such as seeking information from the internet instead of from the television in a case where it could pay to be better informed about the world. possibly having a better chance to have evacuated.

having the timely information and resources in puerto rico, the best decision would have been to evacuate.

For the unfortunate ones who are stuck in the bad situation, it is a time for the community to come together and help each other without regard for expenses. this is an alternative incentive.

If the whole world suddenly becomes like puerto rico all at once fiat or gold wont save you. you will have more pressing concerns than your wealth.

Without regard for expenses? I'd like to believe people are that philanthropic in general, but I don't think so.

Its not altruistic as it seems.

You in that situation are just as endangered as the next guy. it is simply common sense to increase your own security through cooperation.

Unless you are a fucking idiot and banding with some looter scum group. but your probably going to get yourself shot.

[GreenBits]

seems to me that puerto rico is in a plenty bad situation even though they are not currently on bitcoin.

being on bitcoin would provide some helpful side benefits such as seeking information from the internet instead of from the television in a case where it could pay to be better informed about the world. possibly having a better chance to have evacuated.

having the timely information and resources in puerto rico, the best decision would have been to evacuate.

For the unfortunate ones who are stuck in the bad situation, it is a time for the community to come together and help each other without regard for expenses. this is an alternative incentive.

If the whole world suddenly becomes like puerto rico all at once fiat or gold wont save you. you will have more pressing concerns than your wealth.

Concur, that economy was a shitshow prior to Maria. But, this raises a valid side point; for all the warning in the world, who had the means to actually leave the island? Consider. I live in the good ole US of A, and apparently the majority of my countrymen can't afford a $500 emergency on average.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/americans-lack-of-savings/index.html

Nearly six in 10 Americans don't have enough savings to cover a $500 or $1,000 unplanned expense, according to a new report from Bankrate.
Only 41% of adults reported having enough in their savings account to cover a surprise bill of this magnitude. A little more than 20% said they would put it on a credit card, the report said, while 20% would cut their spending and 11% would turn to friends and family for financial assistance.

So if you live in an economy that has essentially been failing for a decade, this prospect of relocation as a solution probably becomes much more distant. A ticket out, at peak traffic, would have cost a fortune. And thats only one soul in a seat. If you have a family, this quickly becomes to expensive for the majority of working people.

[Pearls Before Swine]

OP, I agree with you, and I've read this:
https://coinspectator.com/news/88506/puerto-rico-without-electricity-wifi-atms-shows-importance-of-cash-gold-and-silver

and other articles claiming gold & silver are the best things to have in Puerto Rico right now.
And I find that complete BS.  Cash is king.  Just like in your 'paycheck in diamonds' scenario,
people would have to figure out how to convert gold to cash, which is what people have
always paid for things with, and it's the same with crypto, only worse.

However, their situation is temporary and once their power gets restored, the crypto fanatics
will be back at it.  Bitcoin has never been a good currency anyway.  It certainly isn't perfect.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Interesting & good points, OP.

There are many who support eliminating paper fiat and switching only to electronic based transactions. I would guess puerto rico would have been no better off as a cashless society. Puerto Rico's main issue could be poor leadership, having no viable plans for dealing with hurricanes despite being in a high risk natural disaster area and this being the season for large, powerful, storms.

With a decent proportion of infrastructure and electrical sources demolished, there may still not be enough infrastructure devoted towards precious metals, gemstones & other valuables having utility in markets. A person could have 100 pounds of gold stored in their basement in puerto rico and they still might not be able to use it to buy or sell anything. Precious metals need more mainstream acceptance & utility if their value is to increase.

Yes. Op is taking an exceptional situation in a poor country as if that posed a real threat to bitcoin. If an atomic bomb explodes and you are the only survivor, bitcoin will be useless but so will cash and gold be.

We are heading towards cashless societies, some countries like Sweden are almost there. Even beggars collect alms using payment terminals. Do you think, OP, that they would be better in a situation like that?

[GreenBits]

Interesting & good points, OP.

There are many who support eliminating paper fiat and switching only to electronic based transactions. I would guess puerto rico would have been no better off as a cashless society. Puerto Rico's main issue could be poor leadership, having no viable plans for dealing with hurricanes despite being in a high risk natural disaster area and this being the season for large, powerful, storms.

With a decent proportion of infrastructure and electrical sources demolished, there may still not be enough infrastructure devoted towards precious metals, gemstones & other valuables having utility in markets. A person could have 100 pounds of gold stored in their basement in puerto rico and they still might not be able to use it to buy or sell anything. Precious metals need more mainstream acceptance & utility if their value is to increase.

Yes. Op is taking an exceptional situation in a poor country as if that posed a real threat to bitcoin. If an atomic bomb explodes and you are the only survivor, bitcoin will be useless but so will cash and gold be.

We are heading towards cashless societies, some countries like Sweden are almost there. Even beggars collect alms using payment terminals. Do you think, OP, that they would be better in a situation like that?

Not so exceptional. The level of devastation in PR is amazing and rare, to be sure, but there are other islands that were affected like this, this season (total ruin of infrastructure). These societies will be functioning off of cash for quite some time; cashlessness required a certain level of infrastructure that is not present everywhere even before a catastrophe.

We should never be cashless. Fiat simply is not the same; it is the quickest and safest way to make small informal transactions that is known to man to this date. This is why we have used cash for so long. Even specie works better, given there is less infrastructure required than any electronic cashless payment medium (there are some not electronic payment mediums that criminals have developed; its an interesting read).

I have lived off of cryptos for the past 3 years or so. I have possessed less than 500 USD cash at any given time during this period.

It fucking sucks. I only do it because I have gained massive value by doing so; it is actually quite a pain in the ass.

Try not being able to spend money on food for 2 days because your bitcoin debit card's site is under maintenance

And try not being able to survive for a week because you need a replacement debit card in the mail.

And e payments to beggars seems silly to me. Give them food and resources, not fiscal value.

[Yakamoto]

No one bit  I really wanted to hear some community thoughts on this, we have a lot of "bitcoin is god" folks and I love to pop that bubble 

I'm just gonna respond to this post since it keeps my overall post smaller in size than throwing everything together.

This is also why those who believe that such an age of "completely digital" economies are kidding themselves; for a majority of the nations around the world, there is no way that they have the infrastructure to support such a fantasy. It stops being remotely believable once you get out of Europe, Far East Asia and North America. Most countries are not going to be able to have everyone connected with the internet or similar systems for a while. There has to be a lot more development for "cashless economies" to be viable globally, and having them limited to the first world is simply illogical.