S.MG - The Ministry of Games.

[MPOE-PR]

But it needs to be far enough along in development that all the essential functionality is there. If you release a buggy unusable piece of garbage then it will turn off potential players, even if you make huge improvements later.

I think there's some confusion at work here, in that you seem to be thinking of someone on a proprietary platform with captive customers (Crapple, Craposoft, Craptendo, SEGA etc). This is not the case here, S.MG is not going that way. Alpha and pre-alpha releases are not supposed to be feature complete, are not intended for the consumption of the window lemming and in general I don't think the first client will even be usable by people who can't CLI or compile. So let's not run too much ahead.

This is the exact opposite of what I gathered when I read MP's statement. "Do not form an expectation and you won't be disappointed" and "nothing will work at first". This is garbage, I'm sorry to use such a blanket statement, but what's the point of promoting a flagship product, then releasing a buggy alpha?

Basically because fuck you, that's why. If you've not guessed it so far, MP's stance is very much "either you're doing something or you're shutting the fuck up". Reconsider how this thread went, it's not happenstance that it went that way. People who wish to contribute their "commentary" will be mocked mercilessly, not for any reason other than because they're not actually human, they're what's wrong with the race.

So, to sum up: tell me not what you would like to see S.MG do, with this game or any other. Tell me what you're capable of doing for it and I'll tell you why it's either not wanted, not useful, or remarkably fucking stupid and useless.

Attitude adjustment time.

It's difficult to believe there's any reality to this project. To build a proper game requires huge teams of professionally experienced people, this isn't the early days of 64KB computers anymore and wire-frame graphics.

Some people will clearly in invest in anything that involves Bitcoins without any serious thoughts.

It's on the other hand not hard to believe you'd march in here and opine without a clue as to what exactly you're opining about. Here's a hint: the total available sum of engineer man-hours that this entire community can deploy, including the self-styled "devteam" and anyone else in any way involved with Bitcoin is perhaps, on a good day, if all hands on dock within a tenth of what MP handles. You're not required or even asked to believe or not believe anything, but for your own benefit do more research, do less opining.

It's perfectly true that people invest into Bitcoin stuff just because they're idiots. That's, of course, everyone else. The sooner you learn to make that distinction (not as a point of ideology but as a point of fact, which is what it is) the sooner you might actually be said to have a clue as to wtf is going on in BTC.

Probably the highest signal to noise ratio as well. I don't give a fuck about MMORPGs, but I find myself following this thread and reading every word.

If memory serves the only part where you've added anything but noise is the part where you were going to do some work on heraldics a few weeks ago. Am I seeing anything within any sort of timeframe or are you just here to run the mouth?

If thestringpuller ever went into game design I would invest in it due to the quality of his posts which to me signify's someone who knows what they are talking about.

As always excellent observation

This eerily goes with ex-trader's post above. I think, honestly, that you all should go make your game glbse and spare me. Apparently more hands-on humiliation needs to be applied to you lot before you're ready to be actual productive members of society, so by all means, let's.

[1715449055]

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[nubbins]

captive customers (Crapple, Craposoft, Craptendo, SEGA etc)

Disappointed that they're not "craptive" customers. Rapidly went downhill after "Craposoft".

People who wish to contribute their "commentary" will be mocked mercilessly

But we're having so much fun

I'm fairly entertained.

If memory serves the only part where you've added anything but noise is the part where you were going to do some work on heraldics a few weeks ago. Am I seeing anything within any sort of timeframe or are you just here to run the mouth?

We both know the answer to that, but I did get one of our artists to ink a quick boar. Thanks for the reminder!

[freedomno1]

If thestringpuller ever went into game design I would invest in it due to the quality of his posts which to me signify's someone who knows what they are talking about.

As always excellent observation

This eerily goes with ex-trader's post above. I think, honestly, that you all should go make your game glbse and spare me. Apparently more hands-on humiliation needs to be applied to you lot before you're ready to be actual productive members of society, so by all means, let's.

It would not be a MMORPG something simple with Ren'py to start out see what is popular, if it reviews well then develop something that fleshes out that story-line building up on an established fan-base before launching an IPO. Unlike others I would prefer to test something out before going full out.
If several cheap practice games are made using that design it helps determine and attract your user base focus your development and receive commentary that may help improve your game.
Even if it starts out simple as they say Rome was not built in a day.

An example of this is Sim Girls created by Sim Man although I prefer team projects like Katawa Shoujo  
http://www.blackspears.com/reward-points-program.html
http://www.katawa-shoujo.com/

First aside if MPOE-PR made a visual novel I would lean towards a Katawa Shoujo story-line from your team it would be interesting to see what your test run would look like.

Second aside games designs do succeed through crowdfunding your key advantage is that it is in bitcoin if you choose to provide capital for game designers to design games.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/disastercake/soul-saga-a-j-rpg-inspired-by-playstation-classics?ref=discover_rec

[MPOE-PR]

stuff

Actually that's not bad at all. I especially like that they have their cocks (as very few English speaking laughable prudes know these days, pretty much all heraldic animals had a cock, even the bird-like ones). You prolly should work something out with MP over on irc.

[ThickAsThieves]

There is a problem with your heraldry spec:

Always keep in mind that in the composition of the final representation blue is added first, on top of it red and on top of that yellow. All designs from all sources of either IV.1.1, 1.2 or 1.3 must geometrically work with any other combination. The exact specifications for the file is 1024 x 1024 px png, the shield starting vertically from 400 (±8 px) and ending vertically at 800 (±8px), horizontally from 330 (±12px) and ending horizontally at 660 (±12px). The exact shape of the shield is not specified. In general there should be negative-ish spacevii allowing indifferent superimposition of yellow and blue.

This would place the shield off-center, sitting to the left. Should the shield area be wider, or the blue area?

Also, can these areas overlap if the designs work together. For example, if ornaments curve in kind with the tail of a beast, or a beast's paw rests against a protruding ornament on the edge of a shield? Or will these aspects be interchangeable, thus disallowing such schemes?

[MPOE-PR]

There is a problem with your heraldry spec:

This would place the shield off-center, sitting to the left. Should the shield area be wider, or the blue area?

Also, can these areas overlap if the designs work together. For example, if ornaments curve in kind with the tail of a beast, or a beast's paw rests against a protruding ornament on the edge of a shield? Or will these aspects be interchangeable, thus disallowing such schemes?

I'm not sure what the problem you see is, but MP said there's going to be a mask made to help people visually understand so let's wait for that.

[nubbins]

Actually that's not bad at all. I especially like that they have their cocks (as very few English speaking laughable prudes know these days, pretty much all heraldic animals had a cock, even the bird-like ones).

Heraldic cocks are actually an interesting topic. Certainly, 500 years ago the cock was viewed in a very different light; more than a few young women must have looked upon such heraldics with dread. I'm sure dissertations have been written on this subject.

This would place the shield off-center, sitting to the left.

I'm not sure what the problem you see is, but MP said there's going to be a mask made to help people visually understand so let's wait for that.

Yup. (1024-330)/2=347. Shield will be 17px left of center, following the numbers given. The boars are centered around where the shield should be, but they're not equidistant from the image border.

You prolly should work something out with MP over on irc.

I'll let the artist know; I'm sure she'll be pleased. What sort of hours does MP keep?

[thestringpuller]

Over a decade ago I started learning DirectX 8, (my how time flies), the original Xbox had just been released, and flash games started becoming popular on the internet. A perfect storm was brewing for aspiring game developers; a climate not seen for nearly a decade was developing around us. http://www.gamedev.net started hosting incredible articles, and any and all knowledge to create a video game was finally surfacing on the world wide web, instead of being locked away in expensive books. Thus began the era of the indie developer.

In 2006 EA started to become one of the worst companies to work for, and soon defectors started to arise. Of these defectors Kyle Gabler and Ron Carmel founded a company 2D Boy on their limited savings, approximately $10,000. Starbucks was their office. Kyle drew pretty pictures, and Ron programmed.

In 2008 they released World of Goo, a critically acclaimed independent game. A few months after the release I emailed them while working on my first game with a good friend of mine. Here is a response from Ron, the programmer:

A simple greeting, and "you got dis here/go for it" encouragement:

that's awesome [thestringpuller] you two sound like you were meant to do this together and i hope you do.  what's the worst that can happen?  you'll work on a project you love with a good friend, and if it fails, you'll go find a job somewhere... doesn't sound [too] bad.  but what's the best that could happen, hm?

-r

There is something profound about the support available in the indie community. Everyone is willing to help each other reach a mutual goal.

Tell me what you're capable of doing for it and I'll tell you why it's either not wanted, not useful, or remarkably fucking stupid and useless.

You've come into our house, not the other way around. So what can S.MG contribute to this community they are attempting to disrupt?

Attitude adjustment time.

Um sure? You're going the route of stepping on everyone's heels with stilettos in a foreign community (the gamedev community), and expect to acquisition worthwhile talent. This won't play out well.

I've met with many in the community in an attempt to direct them to MP in relation to working with S.MG, posted their concerns, and have been met with dismal results. This being the case, S.MG has a big hill to climb.

This hill is made even steeper:

Is there any known person associated with this company who has any experience in the games industry?

No.

Hopefully someone with game industry experience hurries in and performs a Mary Poppins-like miracle for you, in the same way Rockstar saved Team Bondi from themselves. But Rockstar could only do so much, and only saved their flagship title, unfortunately they couldn't save the studio.

In a recent Trilema article it seems even Mr. Popescu has a hint of concern:

In spite of all these cutbacks it still doesn’t look very good for S.MGs intended 15th date.

I really wish you all the luck and hope everything works out.

If thestringpuller ever went into game design I would invest in it due to the quality of his posts which to me signify's someone who knows what they are talking about.

If you're really serious about this statement here are two games the lead designer for my current project made in recent years:
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/planetration/
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/leave-me-alone/

The latter is already pretty successful with 100,000 plays, and is currently sponsored. The former is still in development. Give them a play, leave a comment, etc. (Perhaps he'll create a btc tip jar address). If they gain popularity they'll add features, and push for publication, but for now they're out there waiting for people to play them.

In the future we'll be releasing some more games on multiple platforms. Hopefully my posts have piqued some interest in their development.

I leave you all with the Jabberwocky:
https://i.imgur.com/6l5QU03.jpg

You've got to use your hands. Why? Cookies need love like everything does.

[nubbins]

I leave you all with the Jabberwocky

Hey, that's nice. Did you draw that?

[Peter Lambert]

If you're really serious about this statement here are two games the lead designer for my current project made in recent years:
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/planetration/
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/leave-me-alone/

The latter is already pretty successful with 100,000 plays, and is currently sponsored. The former is still in development. Give them a play, leave a comment, etc. (Perhaps he'll create a btc tip jar address). If they gain popularity they'll add features, and push for publication, but for now they're out there waiting for people to play them.

So, I tried to play the linked games, but they don't seem to work? They don't seem to be responding to the keyboard?

EDIT: So, I tried it using Firefox instead of Safari and this time it worked.

[freedomno1]

If thestringpuller ever went into game design I would invest in it due to the quality of his posts which to me signify's someone who knows what they are talking about.

If you're really serious about this statement here are two games the lead designer for my current project made in recent years:
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/planetration/
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/leave-me-alone/

The latter is already pretty successful with 100,000 plays, and is currently sponsored. The former is still in development. Give them a play, leave a comment, etc. (Perhaps he'll create a btc tip jar address). If they gain popularity they'll add features, and push for publication, but for now they're out there waiting for people to play them.

In the future we'll be releasing some more games on multiple platforms. Hopefully my posts have piqued some interest in their development.

You've got to use your hands. Why? Cookies need love like everything does.

[/quote]

Thanks for replying
I gave the two games a try and they are quite fun although I did notice that I couldn't drill through my own holes and got stuck untll I realized I could reverse and then the second part of the game was a fun change of pace as I was not expecting that surprising change with a nice soundtrack and the sonic pick up ring noise its a fun game

Do wish I could retreat faster after making a really detailed perfectly made path to get every single item before the core exploded ^_^
Made me go HURRY UP!!! First time I did that and OH CRAP ha-ha almost want a retreat the drill faster upgrade

The second game darn stalkers kind of like Slenderman only I see that they chase me and don't lurk in the bloody distance till I cover them with a tree in or turn away

If it was on Kongregate a few months ago I would send have sent you something in the tip jar although it was removed and that was disappointing as it promoted indie development.
http://www.kongregate.com/forums/1-kongregate/topics/307728-ending-the-tipping-program

I enjoyed the games and left a comment on both games give me a bit address and I'll send a tip too ^_^
I do enjoy indie development and find these games enjoyable simple but fun
Freedom

I leave you all with the Jabberwocky:

[freedomno1]

If you're really serious about this statement here are two games the lead designer for my current project made in recent years:
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/planetration/
http://www.cosmicadventuresquad.com/projects/leave-me-alone/

The latter is already pretty successful with 100,000 plays, and is currently sponsored. The former is still in development. Give them a play, leave a comment, etc. (Perhaps he'll create a btc tip jar address). If they gain popularity they'll add features, and push for publication, but for now they're out there waiting for people to play them.

So, I tried to play the linked games, but they don't seem to work? They don't seem to be responding to the keyboard?

They work it just isn't start that is start

WASD or Up arrow down arrow left right for Leave Me Alone walk the wrong way to see the High Scores Walk the Right way to start the game
That name was convenient
Hover Over the Red Planet in Planetration then Click on it
Two commands one for the turret using the mouse and WASD UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT cursors for drill Backspace to reverse if your path conflicts  
Had a moment where I was like that as well

Browser Used Google chrome

[MPOE-PR]

I'm not sure what the problem you see is, but MP said there's going to be a mask made to help people visually understand so let's wait for that.

Here's the mask: http://trilema.com/2013/statements-regarding-the-mmorpg-under-development-i-v/#comment-93959

Also, can these areas overlap if the designs work together. For example, if ornaments curve in kind with the tail of a beast, or a beast's paw rests against a protruding ornament on the edge of a shield? Or will these aspects be interchangeable, thus disallowing such schemes?

Overlap is okay, to a reasonable degree, but yes they are interchangeable. So the reasonable degree can't be that "the curve is in kind with the tail of one beast". Has to be more general than that.

[God9394]

Where do I play

will it have free rolls ways to earn bitcoins free

[MPOE-PR]

Where do I play

will it have free rolls ways to earn bitcoins free

If it weren't for you goons this forum would read like camwhoretalk.

[ffssixtynine]

I've only just spotted this thread so sorry for being late to the party. I've run a game studio for nearly 20 years. I've worked on all sorts of good and crap stuff in that time, mostly in the background so you wouldn't know of us. Lots of licensed work, that sort of thing.

On the indie side I've worked on Alien Hominid (came before Castle Crashers, check it out), Cletus Clay (unfinished, long story! Be awesome when done!) Derrick the Deathfin and Eufloria (Apple's iPad Game of 2012 runner-up, multiple award winner, 500K+ sales). Look them up if you want - they're all interesting in their own ways. 2 of the 3 released ones have sold extremely well. I'm currently working on a Eufloria spin off. I've worked on most platforms and know plenty of people in the industry.

I also set up the Bitcoin Bundle, with the kind support of Ron & Kyle (World of Goo) amongst others.

So that's my background - hence I think I'm qualified to talk about game investments (you may disagree).

I'll say this up front - I'm not an MMO expert and I won't pretend to be, but I do have some knowledge of the area and friends whose very business it is.

• Any game is extremely high risk. Most are never finished, most that are will flop.
• An MMO is extremely difficult to pull off, let alone without serious experience. You have to be hugely talented and be making something that stands out from the crowd with new visuals or game dynamics. Even cloning is not going to work (and is more difficult to do well than people imagine)
• If you are going to do a successful MMO, it's going to cost a lot of money and take a very long time.
• I did see that TAT's fund implied money will be made in various ways but I know this industry very well - details please.

In general, as an experienced game developer who has seen & experienced pretty much everything, good and bad, I wouldn't touch this as an investment. The attitude feels wrong, approach is wrong from what I can see, and the experience isn't there.

That's just my opinion and it doesn't mean I wish them the guys ill will or that they won't succeed. In fact I hope they do succeed and if they ever wanted advice they can always ask, but as an investment I can't recommend it .

If people do want to invest Bitcoin in games, I can come up with a vastly better way to do it. If I could raise thousands of Bitcoins, I'd allocate it to 2 or 3 really good, unique projects which are well beyond the paperwork stage. And it'd still be high risk, just rather less of one.

I would love to do such a thing so if someone wants to talk to me about it, PM me please.

[ThickAsThieves]

If I could raise thousands of Bitcoins, I'd allocate it to 2 or 3 really good, unique projects which are well beyond the paperwork stage. And it'd still be high risk, just rather less of one.

I would love to do such a thing so if someone wants to talk to me about it, PM me please.

I can't speak for S.MG at all, but isn't it possible for what you suggest to also be a part of their plan?

[ffssixtynine]

If I could raise thousands of Bitcoins, I'd allocate it to 2 or 3 really good, unique projects which are well beyond the paperwork stage. And it'd still be high risk, just rather less of one.

I would love to do such a thing so if someone wants to talk to me about it, PM me please.

I can't speak for S.MG at all, but isn't it possible for what you suggest to also be a part of their plan?

If I'm an investor in games, I need to know if I'm investing in:

An MMO
An outsourcing business
A f2p iOS/Android developer (original content, cloneville?)
An investment fund for games (what types?)
A particular game (platform, multi-platform, IP ownership)

I need to know the particulars about dividends.
I need to know all relevant experience.
I need to know development strategy, costs, schedule, and key staff.

All of these are completely different, require different skill sets, different levels and kinds of experience, and their own unique business plan.

I've seen mention of middleware but not a lot more. MMOs are ludicrously high risk and very difficult to do. I know people who have actually done it without much experience so I know it is possible, but they went into it extremely knowledgable, well advised, really knew their design stuff, and it's still been (and is) incredibly difficult and expensive (Path of Exile, developer in New Zealand).

The only one I'd even consider investing in if someone didn't have game industry experience is an outsourcing business, but they'd still need a partner who knew the business or they'd need a really good plan and have all the industry stats and figures at their finger tips.

I know this is the wild west but it's still a business and one which is asking for a considerable amount of money. Since this is an area I know well, and I know how high the failure rate is, this pitch is missing... well... almost everything. In the nicest possible way. And I don't want the first big Bitcoin games investment to be like that. Any investment in a game developer is high risk money in the first place, but it should at least be an investment into the right business.

So, back to your question. If it is part of their plan then that should be clear to investors. Moreover, they need make clear the particulars - of which there are many.

EDIT: As a spokesperson, MPOE-PR is doing a spectacularly poor job. You're asking for that much money and you don't think you should need more than a name and the word 'Game'? That's ridiculous. As is saying that there is no particular area planned to concentrate in - you *have* to know, you don't just pull it out of a hat and say 'well the f2p model is going pretty well so we may do that'. The more I re-read this thread, the worse I realise this is.

S.MG should state what their -full- plan is and how they intend to work it within the game sector. Far too much money involved to be allowed to wing it.

Investors - most investors in games lose money. That's not because they are investing in the wrong people necessarily, it's a viciously competitive market place where right place, right time, and talent all need to come together. Investing when you don't even really know what you're investing in multiplies that risk a hundred fold unless that person has a great track record in that precise area.

And if it's mostly to be invested in the MMO linked to in this thread, run away. Run away now. I just don't even know what to say - it's way, way off the mark.

[Lohoris]

[ffssixtynine]

Haha!

Nah, I've no interest in getting into an argument about this.

I've made my point as a non-investor from the game industry. People will make up their own minds from here and MPOE-PR can run this how he wants. He doesn't need to spend time defending his proposition from me as I'm not investing, and I've seen how those type of threads pan out.

If you are considering investing, i believe I've pointed enough out so you know the right questions and risks.