[scam tag request] user unclescrooge founder and operator of bitfinex.com

[myself]

please note the following
i am extremely mad
and my English is very bad

this post will be updated

term many time used
unclescrooge= Raphael= R
urwhatuknow=Giancarlo=G





this is happening live here is a list of thing that did happen recently

1) is got my bitfinex admin login revoked
2) i got my admin access revoked https://community.bitfinex.com/member.php/1-Myself yes the forums license was mine (and still is mine)
3) R try to avoid me by filtering my emails and sending me auto reply emails that he is on vacation



broken agreements
1) read only access to BFX
2) the agreement that i wont take any loses from BFX (i dont have to put money for the loses on BFX)
3) payment of dividend at the end of the month ( other share holders got money i did not) BFX did pay a 10 000 USD dividend for the month of may


i know many people put the trust on me and they put money in BFX because of that, since tonight I lost my read only access and I cant keep a eye on their money  

[1713969116]

1713969116

[myself]

i lost my log in access emails

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 22:53:16 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Message-ID: <51AD0234.6090109@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:53:08 +0200
From: myself <myselfbtc@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle <raphbot@gmail.com>
Subject: admin log in
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature";
 boundary="----enig2XRUSUTWEKVRGHFHWWOWQ"

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
------enig2XRUSUTWEKVRGHFHWWOWQ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

did u change something to my bitfinex.com/admin admin@cctforum.com i
cant log in anymore

--=20
Bye



------enig2XRUSUTWEKVRGHFHWWOWQ
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=jAmB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------enig2XRUSUTWEKVRGHFHWWOWQ--

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 22:58:06 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Message-ID: <51AD035C.9010704@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 22:58:04 +0200
From: myself <myselfbtc@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle <admin@bitfinex.com>
Subject: admin log in
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature";
 boundary="----enig2TGPFUPPVKSQPEARXRBIM"

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
------enig2TGPFUPPVKSQPEARXRBIM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin admin@cctforum.com
i cant log in anymore

--=20
Bye



------enig2TGPFUPPVKSQPEARXRBIM
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=p+E0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------enig2TGPFUPPVKSQPEARXRBIM--

i got this in reply

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 23:01:28 2013
X-Account-Key: account12
X-UIDL: GmailId13f0bd52e6652917
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Delivered-To: myselfbtc@gmail.com
Received: by 10.49.119.168 with SMTP id kv8csp82744qeb;
        Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.60.134.204 with SMTP id pm12mr11173735oeb.67.1370293088109;
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <>
Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id so3si28080589oeb.15.2013.06.03.13.58.07
        for <myselfbtc@gmail.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mail-ie0-x22a.google.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of mail-ie0-x22a.google.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=
Received: by mail-ie0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id e14so11973640iej.15
        for <myselfbtc@gmail.com>; Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:58:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=google.com; s=20120113;
        h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version
         :content-type:precedence:x-autoreply:auto-submitted
         :x-gm-message-state;
        bh=/ZCmP5ztrTd4j4fT3e4AaBhUr8hlPFUBevS+P7k4kh0=;
        b=C5uVz7U2edvS5sBrRUKrG573PgbSft4j58Yx2salA8jc0WTq4mLoNhVDwakvzBcKx8
         4O5DBI/8Q7wxy6ba4rINmjb3nyFYH99w7zyVqcxbkXJZveGjVwx+ZlMDVz0famwr+ZXJ
         YzNHBjI6qJoeOQBTBaxdCB/QNd9yQAv5jxhoHaCCOEpU+M3C4QQofiw5gdIGB/TnvcpB
         dJgPgDZygB5i0JywVlus0eZRjRdIbdSPe8TSJMB/2OBNzFAhpI3Dyc7vcXUnHSZg1Z07
         vQmBsYltd7KugBcIHIWku0qGCaKBmYy7KvmeuUrv+t1ZqQ++07GAbA8gNtora3tfoZCD
         YGDg==
X-Received: by 10.50.82.39 with SMTP id f7mr9030416igy.100.1370293087717;
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 13:58:07 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:58:07 -0700
From: "Raphael Nicolle" <admin+canned.response@bitfinex.com>
To: myselfbtc@gmail.com
Message-ID: <CAG4Gv-JxHP-+oWBj6NZUn9pcxGuP5Qst63DkPYCH4XZ2Hqp4WQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <51AD035C.9010704@gmail.com>
References: <51AD035C.9010704@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: admin log in
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670"
Precedence: bulk
X-Autoreply: yes
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlFK9Dt2CXuIyfOlIf/lZZsOTY12LxISNyreqmuq2jgpK1eH/RjQSJ7TJIrfW8ozEEB/fLc

------=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

Hello,

I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
Giancarlo Devasini <g.devasini@gmail.com>
J.L. van der Velde <jlvdv@hotmail.com>

Best regards,
Raphael
Bitfinex team

------=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m currently away until the 18th of June.</div><div><br></div><div>For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:</div><div>Giancarlo Devasini &lt;<a href="mailto:g.devasini@gmail.com" target="_blank">g.devasini@gmail.com</a>&gt;</div>

<div>J.L. van der Velde &lt;<a href="mailto:jlvdv@hotmail.com" target="_blank">jlvdv@hotmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div><br></div></div><div><div dir="ltr">Best regards,<div>Raphael</div><div>Bitfinex team</div></div></div>


</div>

------=_Part_16907_21968963.1370293087670--

so i decide to send a email from other email address

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 23:28:04 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0003
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Return-Path: <ioan@bitfinex.com>
Received: from [192.168.0.100] (43.117.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es. [188.77.117.43])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fx7sm26109948wic.11.2013.06.03.14.03.53
        for <multiple recipients>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <51AD04B9.8030409@bitfinex.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 23:03:53 +0200
From: Ioan <ioan@bitfinex.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle <admin@bitfinex.com>, 
 Raphael Nicolle <raphbot@gmail.com>
Subject: admin log in
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin admin@cctforum.com
i cant log in anymore

but this time i get a manual reply

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 23:27:54 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0013
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Delivered-To: ioan@bitfinex.com
Received: by 10.68.16.10 with SMTP id b10csp69801pbd;
        Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.59.6.101 with SMTP id ct5mr17535847ved.8.1370294678520;
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <raphbot@gmail.com>
Received: from mail-ve0-x22c.google.com (mail-ve0-x22c.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e8si4137143vcy.18.2013.06.03.14.24.37
        for <ioan@bitfinex.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of raphbot@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of raphbot@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mail=raphbot@gmail.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com
Received: by mail-ve0-f172.google.com with SMTP id jz10so3224974veb.17
        for <ioan@bitfinex.com>; Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type;
        bh=txkVd/7iXw/m2jtkDoYbfASR8gIeBUwLCzqBd/cehZ4=;
        b=OhmI0HyYgP5Ik1l6SGs6IbeqP8Z/fRzTDiqsGCCgmNnMyDTzzdcgBWyguD4FS2Es5v
         VBfIJvgwt4lMTbSUy5rTNr7fI+w+KVQCM2rbBIUuUyFQtnGdZsdvNYBnGEugZzTKNb9V
         4YN0HJBUBQBuX8pBYAV4YiSuuJotCmXc9uyLdrcBL3OHntROcn/IMaY91DAIi7R5e1no
         /bomxhlMWN6QPFCXeu+Chkf6GuarFR94mQ+/mT0P9eeXuUDO2MWzOZhDXNGX5IkzQFaE
         wTwYlrDJPns9KkmXfnJcY8xDZH+apcallJq+Z2DBcqgcMCwkTZdeyeIld8Z5hY8j3OMH
         RPeQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.52.22.228 with SMTP id h4mr14734875vdf.14.1370294677791;
 Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.58.196.147 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <51AD0904.7050404@bitfinex.com>
References: <51AD04B9.8030409@bitfinex.com>
	<51AD0904.7050404@bitfinex.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 23:24:37 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEG5Az5uYVPxz0yTDiXmPqeeHjgSQyzG_5w7HTp-CdMhvBHXSw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: admin log in
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_NICOLLE?= <raphbot@gmail.com>
To: Ioan <ioan@bitfinex.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee

--20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello,

I'm currently away until the 18th of June.

For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
Giancarlo Devasini <g.devasini@gmail.com>
J.L. van der Velde <jlvdv@hotmail.com>

Best regards
Raphael NICOLLE
Bitfinex team



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan <ioan@bitfinex.com> wrote:

> On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:
> > did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin admin@cctforum.com
> > i cant log in anymore
>
>
> hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit   remember
> tomorrow there is a deadline
>

--20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m current=
ly away until the 18th of June.</div><div><br></div><div>For all matters re=
lated to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:</div><div>Giancarlo Deva=
sini &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g.devasini@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">g.devasi=
ni@gmail.com</a>&gt;</div>
<div>J.L. van der Velde &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jlvdv@hotmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">jlvdv@hotmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best regards=
</div><div>Raphael NICOLLE</div><div>Bitfinex team</div><div><br></div></di=
v>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon,=
 Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ioan=
@bitfinex.com" target=3D"_blank">ioan@bitfinex.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:<br>
&gt; did u change my admin log in ? <a href=3D"http://bitfinex.com/admin" t=
arget=3D"_blank">bitfinex.com/admin</a> <a href=3D"mailto:admin@cctforum.co=
m">admin@cctforum.com</a><br>
&gt; i cant log in anymore<br>
<br>
<br>
hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit =A0 remember<br=
>
tomorrow there is a deadline<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--20cf307f35be81ec1804de4697ee--

and ofc i see that this is bullshit

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 23:28:04 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Return-Path: <ioan@bitfinex.com>
Received: from [192.168.0.100] (43.117.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es. [188.77.117.43])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ff10sm26273341wib.10.2013.06.03.14.25.40
        for <raphbot@gmail.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Mon, 03 Jun 2013 14:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <51AD09D4.9050309@bitfinex.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 23:25:40 +0200
From: Ioan <ioan@bitfinex.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_NICOLLE?= <raphbot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: admin log in
References: <51AD04B9.8030409@bitfinex.com> <51AD0904.7050404@bitfinex.com> <CAEG5Az5uYVPxz0yTDiXmPqeeHjgSQyzG_5w7HTp-CdMhvBHXSw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEG5Az5uYVPxz0yTDiXmPqeeHjgSQyzG_5w7HTp-CdMhvBHXSw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------000608040800070203000409"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000608040800070203000409
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

this email come from Raphaël NICOLLE <raphbot@gmail.com> the other one
come from raphbot+canned.response@gmail.com

so bullshit


On 03/06/2013 23:24, Raphaël NICOLLE wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm currently away until the 18th of June.
>
> For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact:
> Giancarlo Devasini <g.devasini@gmail.com <mailto:g.devasini@gmail.com>>
> J.L. van der Velde <jlvdv@hotmail.com <mailto:jlvdv@hotmail.com>>
>
> Best regards
> Raphael NICOLLE
> Bitfinex team
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan <ioan@bitfinex.com
> <mailto:ioan@bitfinex.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:
>     > did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin
>     <http://bitfinex.com/admin> admin@cctforum.com
>     <mailto:admin@cctforum.com>
>     > i cant log in anymore
>
>
>     hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit   remember
>     tomorrow there is a deadline
>
>


--------------000608040800070203000409
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">this email come from Rapha&euml;l NICOLLE
      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:raphbot@gmail.com">&lt;raphbot@gmail.com&gt;</a> the other one come from
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:raphbot+canned.response@gmail.com">raphbot+canned.response@gmail.com</a> <br>
      <br>
      so bullshit <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 03/06/2013 23:24, Rapha&euml;l NICOLLE wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAEG5Az5uYVPxz0yTDiXmPqeeHjgSQyzG_5w7HTp-CdMhvBHXSw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">Hello,
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I'm currently away until the 18th of June.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex,
            please contact:</div>
          <div>Giancarlo Devasini &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:g.devasini@gmail.com" target="_blank">g.devasini@gmail.com</a>&gt;</div>
          <div>J.L. van der Velde &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:jlvdv@hotmail.com" target="_blank">jlvdv@hotmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Best regards</div>
          <div>Raphael NICOLLE</div>
          <div>Bitfinex team</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan <span
            dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:ioan@bitfinex.com" target="_blank">ioan@bitfinex.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote">
            On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:<br>
            &gt; did u change my admin log in ? <a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://bitfinex.com/admin"
              target="_blank">bitfinex.com/admin</a> <a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:admin@cctforum.com">admin@cctforum.com</a><br>
            &gt; i cant log in anymore<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit
            &nbsp; remember<br>
            tomorrow there is a deadline<br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------000608040800070203000409--

the reply

Code:

From - Mon Jun 03 23:34:53 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Message-ID: <51AD0BF5.8060309@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2013 23:34:45 +0200
From: myself <myselfbtc@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_NICOLLE?= <raphbot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: admin log in
References: <51AD04B9.8030409@bitfinex.com> <51AD0904.7050404@bitfinex.com> <CAEG5Az5uYVPxz0yTDiXmPqeeHjgSQyzG_5w7HTp-CdMhvBHXSw@mail.gmail.com> <CAEG5Az497HUP3CMVzvyX_dusT4njhEo30br+QxfVDkzcSPjA1g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEG5Az497HUP3CMVzvyX_dusT4njhEo30br+QxfVDkzcSPjA1g@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature";
 boundary="----enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH"

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
------enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------060307040007030108070405"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060307040007030108070405
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

is all or nothing=20

or i get all or i get nothing

On 03/06/2013 23:33, Rapha=EBl NICOLLE wrote:
> Hello,
>
> You refused to discuss our losses while now Bitfinex is not just me
> and all associates reached an agreement, like you did not propose to
> lift 1 btc when I reimbursed 150+ btc to our users since the start of
> Bitfinex (yes i know, as in the contract, but a contract doesn't
> prevent you to participate). Now I exposed you some alternatives
> because I don't wanted this contract anymore, and this is up to you.=20
>
> Please discuss it with Jean-Louis as with his email, my time will be
> limited in the next 2 weeks as I'm taking some well-deserved time off,
> only providing limited support to users.
>
> Thanks for your comprehension
> Raphael
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Rapha=EBl NICOLLE <raphbot@gmail.com
> <mailto:raphbot@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hello,
>
>     I'm currently away until the 18th of June.
>
>     For all matters related to the interest of Bitfinex, please contact=
:
>     Giancarlo Devasini <g.devasini@gmail.com
>     <mailto:g.devasini@gmail.com>>
>     J.L. van der Velde <jlvdv@hotmail.com <mailto:jlvdv@hotmail.com>>
>
>     Best regards
>     Raphael NICOLLE
>     Bitfinex team
>
>
>
>     On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22 PM, Ioan <ioan@bitfinex.com
>     <mailto:ioan@bitfinex.com>> wrote:
>
>         On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:
>         > did u change my admin log in ? bitfinex.com/admin
>         <http://bitfinex.com/admin> admin@cctforum.com
>         <mailto:admin@cctforum.com>
>         > i cant log in anymore
>
>
>         hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply bullshit =20
>         remember
>         tomorrow there is a deadline
>
>
>


--=20
Bye


--------------060307040007030108070405
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">is all or nothing&nbsp; <br>
      <br>
      or i get all or i get nothing <br>
      <br>
      On 03/06/2013 23:33, Rapha&euml;l NICOLLE wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite=3D"mid:CAEG5Az497HUP3CMVzvyX_dusT4njhEo30br+QxfVDkzcSPjA1g@mail.gmai=
l.com"
      type=3D"cite">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Context-Type" content=3D"text/html;
        charset=3DISO-8859-1">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>You refused to discuss our losses while now Bitfinex is not
          just me and all associates reached an agreement, like you did
          not propose to lift 1 btc when I reimbursed 150+ btc to our
          users since the start of Bitfinex (yes i know, as in the
          contract, but a contract doesn't prevent you to participate).
          Now I exposed you some alternatives because I don't wanted
          this contract anymore, and this is up to you.&nbsp;</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Please discuss it with Jean-Louis as with his email, my
          time will be limited in the next 2 weeks as I'm taking some
          well-deserved time off, only providing limited support to
          users.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Thanks for your comprehension</div>
        <div>Raphael</div>
      </div>
      <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:24 PM,
          Rapha&euml;l NICOLLE <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D=
"true"
              href=3D"mailto:raphbot@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">raphbot=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote">
            <div dir=3D"ltr">
              <div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>I'm currently away until the 18th of June.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>For all matters related to the interest of
                  Bitfinex, please contact:</div>
                <div>Giancarlo Devasini &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                    href=3D"mailto:g.devasini@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">g.devasini@gmail.com</a>&gt;</div>
                <div>J.L. van der Velde &lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                    href=3D"mailto:jlvdv@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">j=
lvdv@hotmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Best regards</div>
                <div>Raphael NICOLLE</div>
                <div>Bitfinex team</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div class=3D"HOEnZb">
              <div class=3D"h5">
                <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
                  <br>
                  <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:22=

                    PM, Ioan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                        href=3D"mailto:ioan@bitfinex.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">ioan@bitfinex.com</a>&gt;</span>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote">
                      On 03/06/2013 23:03, Ioan wrote:<br>
                      &gt; did u change my admin log in ? <a
                        moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                        href=3D"http://bitfinex.com/admin" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitfinex.com/admin</a>
                      <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                        href=3D"mailto:admin@cctforum.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">admin@cctforum.com</a><br>
                      &gt; i cant log in anymore<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      hey you forgot to add this email to the auto reply
                      bullshit &nbsp; remember<br>
                      tomorrow there is a deadline<br>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
Bye</pre>
  </body>
</html>

--------------060307040007030108070405--

------enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=UuN1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------enig2CCWEREQWSFCLDBCSGUTH--

[myself]

the agreement part

myself is granted an access to the data exposing the financial situation of the website www.bitfinex.com. He can access these data any time he wants

and

myself will receive a financial compensation of 10% of the profits of the previously mentionned website, every month

and

should financial results be negative, myself won't pay nor receive anything for these negative months

R and the other investors insist that i need to pay for BFX loses and my agreement clearly say i do not have to put any money if there is a loss and this agreement was made previous to the join of investors just when there was R and me

using this strategy to push me out of BFX and to take my part away now that all the BFX logic is sound, there is a new market that there was not before on bitcoin world, the lending for leverage.


first agreement

Code:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I agree with the following terms of the contract
09/nov/2012

myself


- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

07-11-2012:
'raphael' is the owner of the GPG Key with the fingerprint:
480E 1658 E97D 4C02 B084  268E A5E9 EDB9 1863 6AD7

'myself' is the owner of the GPG Key with the fingerprint:
8D81 F188 60D8 23D6 C5B4 9DCA 0D67 251C C6DA F00E

This contract has the following purpose:
- - -myself can give any proposal/advices to modify and enhance the website www.bitfinex.com
- - -myself is granted an access to the data exposing the financial situation of the website www.bitfinex.com. He can access these data any time he wants
- - -myself will receive a financial compensation of 10% of the profits of the previously mentionned website, every month
- - -should financial results be negative, myself won't pay nor receive anything for these negative months
- - -raphael has the right to ignore any of these proposals 
- - -raphael has the right to change any of these proposals 
- - -myself has no say in the expenses made by raphael to hire additional persons and/or modify the previously mentionned website
- - -the contract remains open to future negotiation of details
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
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=k+Gi
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)

iEYEARECAAYFAlCdI2EACgkQDWclHMba8A7awgCgh8hdG6EgqL316BDFZ0RiO+2r
S6MAn3gY7zXqaClxSurEYf/o5fZSZEfo
=l4y+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

after that agreement when BFX got incorporated i got a 25% share on BFX and then got diluted to 20% so investors get in BFX also

[myself]

why I don't want to put money for the loses bitfinex have

Code:

From - Mon May 06 12:55:08 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                 
Message-ID: <51878BF8.2090301@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 12:54:48 +0200
From: myself <myselfbtc@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle <raphbot@gmail.com>
Subject: Preliminary observations on Bitfinex.com losses
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature";
 boundary="----enig2UPIQJQEUWHSNNWFCLEOH"

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
------enig2UPIQJQEUWHSNNWFCLEOH
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Preliminary observations on Bitfinex.com losses.

Because of  our former agreement I'm protected by any loses generated in
bitfinex.com, I request that our former agreement has to be respected.
All this problem concerning the losses I think that is a strategy to get
rid of me "simply", without me you wouldn't have had the the same amount
of clients "we both have access to google analytics and we can see the
traffic generated through chatzy, where I talk to lots of traders and
they've been attracted to use our platform, besides that all the
information and promotion I did and do on the forums" and the platform
it wouldn't be the same and probably it couldn't be existing any longer,
because it was a bucket shop.

Regarding the losses there are a few key points that you should
understand, even though I'm not forced to be participant on the losses.
1. The losses are not settled every month the losses are settled at the
end of the fiscal year.
2. To know the exact amount of losses is required an external and
neutral audit for all the bitfinex accounts.
3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,
the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and was
credited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,
the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,
money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this I
cannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.
4. You are the only operator of the bitfinex platform and you let the
platform to lose money on purpose, you have been notified concerning
problems with the MTGOX platform, these losses are not generated by
mistake or by incompetence, you knowing it and let this happen and you
didn't want to stop it.

Because of all these points and the reasons exposed above my trust level
is extremely low and any decision regarding my financial interest in
Bitfinex. will be made after consulting other people.


--=20
Bye



------enig2UPIQJQEUWHSNNWFCLEOH
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=eYdV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------enig2UPIQJQEUWHSNNWFCLEOH--

[MPOE-PR]

A. That is the worst most laughable pathetic excuse for a "contract" I've ever seen. There is a reason you solicit the help of experts when drawing up contracts, and pay for this benefit. That reason is so that your contracts look like stuff on MPEx and more importantly work. The alternative is the mountain of fail depicted above.

B. You're no better than the other scammers involved.

"it wouldn't be the same and probably it couldn't be existing any longer, because it was a bucket shop."

versus

-the trust issue: yes, MPOE lady you are right, this is a big issue. At this point I don't see what I could do more than exposing my full name, address and photo, and being as transparent as I can. For those who feel this is not enough (and I understand you), maybe you can wait until we're a registered company.

3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,
the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and was
credited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,
the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,
money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this I
cannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

You knew it was a bucket shop just like I knew it was a bucket shop. You knew it was running a joke of a codebase just as I knew it was running a joke of a codebase. You kept quiet about it, as long as you were an insider. You are no longer quiet about it, because the other thieves involved locked you out.

Yes please, scammer tags. For all those involved:

the OP
Giancarlo Devasini <g.devasini@gmail.com>
J.L. van der Velde <jlvdv@hotmail.com>
Raphael Nicolle <raphbot@gmail.com>

Once that's done, let's re-read historical posts:

-the trust issue: yes, MPOE lady you are right, this is a big issue. At this point I don't see what I could do more than exposing my full name, address and photo, and being as transparent as I can. For those who feel this is not enough (and I understand you), maybe you can wait until we're a registered company.

The problem here is that you seem to be starting from a point of "I shall be doing this" and then consider what could bolster your position. This is completely wrong and wholly unacceptable: you should not be doing this. At all. It is a horribly bad idea to be doing this. It can't end well. It's running with scissors as a four year old with a bad knee and a broken ankle on an old stairwell made of long-rotten pinewood which has lots of ice splotches on top of it during an earthquake at sea in rough weather on a wet deck with hurricane level winds blowing portside.

Maybe one day you might find yourself in the position of being a world-renowned acrobat who can run with scissors up and down an old stairwell made out of rotten pinewood with ice splotches in rough sea etc. Maybe. Provided you are born tall and lanky and with a talent for ballet, and your parents send you to the proper schools from a fresh young age and you are muchly interested in all that's required to become thusly acrobatically accomplished and are very disciplined and get lucky enough to amass the right sort of experience then possibly, maybe, sometime, one day, you might meet this opportunity of your life and thus dance on the proverbial rotten pinewood stairwell (with ice on it).

So, practically: forget about this project. Close it down. Go read up on finance, go read up on computer programming, on security, on business management, on law. Start small, prove that you can correctly handle fifty bitcoins over the span of A FEW YEARS. Then move into larger and larger things until one day you can maybe, if you're still inclined and it's still fashionable, try this.

Nobody cares that you register a company. It makes no damned difference, in the time it took me to type out this I could have registered five. A monkey with a funny hat can register a company. It's a fifty dollar expenditure in most US states, it's the practical equivalent of organizing a dinner with your ex who happens to be visiting your town. It adds precisely zero to your overall chances to not end up in a sad, sad position a few months down the road.

Why drag a bunch of people with you?

Prosperity is in general the result of the working of free markets. The one caveat to this observation is that market participants have to be responsible. It doesn't matter so much if they are intelligent or not, it doesn't really matter if they're good christians or devout muslims or anything else, but they do have to be responsible.

When some people behave irresponsibly the result is that they lose their money, which flows, albeit indirectly and circumvolutedly but nevertheless unerringly, to more responsible participants.

When a small majority* of participants behave irresponsibly however the net result is not just pain to their own fortunes, but pain spread across the board. All of a sudden you have to be very intelligent, and very experienced, and very well informed to manage to keep your money safe, and often enough even that's not going to suffice.

Giving over half a million bitcoins to a random idiot has the unpleasant effect of creating a high powered idiot. He can now wreak havoc on the exchange rate, which increases volatility and on the long term hurts everyone involved in bitcoins, because volatility is, much like inflation, an indirect tax on users.

Giving over half a million bitcoins to a random idiot has the unpleasant effect of creating half a million bitcoins' worth of valueless receipts, which are pretty much indistinguishable to the naked eye from valid receipts. Thus, if you pay on anyone's credit you are basing your judgment not on actual fact, but on an unknown and pretty much unknowable mixture of fact and hogwash.

Giving over half a million bitcoins to a random idiot is a bad idea. There are people whose personal responsibility in this matter is greater than that of most everyone else, people who have in effect acted as lieutenants for the random idiot. This thread is a convenient spot for all of them to avoid the indignity of being called out, and instead freely and willingly admit their mistake, and by admitting it learn from it. Specifically, learn that they aren't nearly as qualified as they thought to play the "banker", and by this make one step towards maybe one day actually being bankers.

The wanna-be bankers are not alone in their hour of humiliation. There are plenty of others who spend their entire day spouting nonsense on this forum, either under the guise of being "journalists" for some monthly magazine that does a couple issues a year or just as random internet experts in everything. Obviously they won't be learning anything on this opportunity as they haven't learned anything on any of the previous ones in their lives. That's after all fine, what would a mining town be without the drunks and general scum?

Aside from these practical considerations, there are some more general points to be taken home by anybody who wants to be a little smarter today than last month, and possibly have a little better shot at actually making money than before.

1. Learn the pecking order. All opinions are not equal. Some people are to be respected. Learn who. Some people are irrelevant and easily ignored. Learn who. More importantly than the who, learn why. Is it just because "everyone else seems to think so"? That's no good, forget it. Is it because they were right when everyone else was wrong? That's perfect, especially if it occurs with any sort of consistency.

2. Business means something very specific. Only the permanently poor imagine business = "anything to do with money". There's no business without a business plan. If something purports to be a business but "it can't" or it just won't share its business plan it is not a business. This means you can't be investing in it. Sure, you can throw money at anything you wish, as for instance the toilet bowl, Ponzi scams or scantily clad girls. However, in order to invest you absolutely need a business first.

3. Learn how to deal with your own mental limitations. If you think you don't have any you find yourself most likely in the situation described here:

If one skims through the psychological literature, one will find some evidence that the incompetent are less able than their more skilled peers to gauge their own level of competence. For example, Fagot and O'Brien (1994) found that socially incompetent boys were largely unaware of their lack of social graces (see Bem & Lord, 1979 , for a similar result involving college students). Mediocre students are less accurate than other students at evaluating their course performance ( Moreland, Miller, & Laucka, 1981 ). Unskilled readers are less able to assess their text comprehension than are more skilled readers ( Maki, Jonas, & Kallod, 1994 ). Students doing poorly on tests less accurately predict which questions they will get right than do students doing well ( Shaughnessy, 1979 ; Sinkavich, 1995 ). Drivers involved in accidents or flunking a driving exam predict their performance on a reaction test less accurately than do more accomplished and experienced drivers ( Kunkel, 1971 ).

In short: if you're not aware that there's anything wrong with your judgment of "business", "finance", "investing", "money" and so forth that is almost certainly due to the fact that you are very weak on all of these topics, likely significantly below average. You should spend a good deal of time reading and a greater deal of time testing things out methodically before you promote yourself mentally to "average", or even "crummy". This means years. Years.

The advantage of BTC is that it's a very cheap and very clean way to learn about finance. The disadvantage (if we can call it that) is that it's much akin to falling in love: very, very, very hard on the knees. Vitriolic to the ego.

4. Step outside of your ideology. You might have been brought up in a very repressive social milieu in which some particular ideological slant was drilled into you. This is working to your disadvantage, get rid of it. Are you sticking up for your friends because they're your friends rather than because they have a point? Great for facebook, horrible for BTC. You will lose money. Are you following the crowd like a welfare state lemming? Great for the white collar slave, horrible for BTC. You will lose money. Do you think form is above content and as such it's okay to invade foreign countries and slaughter civilians just as long as nobody says shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker or tits on TV? Great for being an American, horrible for the free world. You will lose money.

5. Re-read this entire post. It probably didn't fully sink in on the first pass. Seriously. Alternatively it is always easier to just not like me. You will lose money.

---------
* This term of... art, let's say, will go down in BTC history.

And perhaps learn something from it all. This time, the Nth time.

[myself]

@MPOE-PR if you want any reply from me make short and to the point questions atm i am not in a state to deal with with long+spin+god_know_what posts

[ssbtoday]

myself u are a scammer

[nrd525]

There doesn't appear to be any duration terms specified in Myself's agreement. 

I think a better written contract would have a duration or process for ending it.

[unclescrooge]

Ianov FARSACIU,

Let me recapitulate the whole story:

We agreed on a contract, where you would be giving advices to me, in exchange for 10% of profit. You would not participate in the decisions, nor in the losses. This is a consulting contract with remuneration based on performances.

And so for months, I paid 150+ btc to cover bugs to users, paid thousands of euros for incorporation,... You didn't put a dime, fair enough, it was the contract. You acted as an advisor/consultant.

Now come other associates which I gladly invited to the team. They don't want a crypto-anarchist project, they want a serious team, they don't want a joke of a contract, they want legal papers. They came in April, a month during which we lost quite some money with the Big Crash. So at the end of the month, we agreed to cover all losses, if we were to be associates. You refused it, and stated that you only want to share profit and will never take any losses. By doing this you confirmed that you want a consulting contract, not be an associate. So we proposed you, and multiples times since then, to tell us what you were looking in term of remuneration for a consulting collaboration. You never answer to this. You just came yesterday asking us 5000 BTC so you can leave the team. After which I cut you access to the read-only part of the admin side of Bitfinex (what would you expect?).

there was never money put in that was not going to be paid. If our associates which you met, and you now how wealthy they are, weren't there, there would be no more Bitfinex. They allow us to pass a hard time of 5 figures losses, and now be strong as we are.

Now Ianov, I'm sorry we have come to this. I'm sorry you refused to discuss at all, I'm sorry you were paranoid from day 1, just to end up creating some thread on a forum to do what? You know, and I believe everyone knows, that I am really open to discussion. I mean fuck it's been a month since I asked you to state the kind of contract you want with us, and explained you that you are not, and never acted as, an associate. I believe this is a reasonable time to discuss things.

Now as I said, we are not a crypto-anarchist project but a real team with a project in the real world for the future, and we are doing things as a company do. That means that if you push us to do something, we won't create a thread on a forum. I hope the message is clear.

I don't want to read anymore that we steal your forum licence (this is wrong, we bought everything back to VBulletin and third parties, and it's a shame as we could have bought it from you if you were only open to discussion), I don't want to read that we credit money that doesn't exist, I don't want to read this kind of false accusations.

MPOE-R you still don't get how Bitfinex matches user position with real funds of lenders and doesn't act as a bucket shop, and it's a shame from you.

For everyone, sorry to have this dirty laundry in public. If you feel uneasy and want to withdraw your funds from Bitfinex, please do.

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team

[myself]

I only give up 5% to 20% I did never give up the whole 25%

and yes i told you if you want my 20% that's the price take it or leave it

I don't want to read anymore that we steal your forum licence (this is wrong, we bought everything back to VBulletin and third parties, and it's a shame as we could have bought it from you if you were only open to discussion)

when i made this thread that was not the case

I don't want to read this kind of false accusations

bullshit

From - Wed Apr 03 15:37:44 2013
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:                                                                                
Message-ID: <515C309F.6010303@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2013 15:37:35 +0200
From: myself <myselfbtc@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Raphael Nicolle <admin@bitfinex.com>
Subject: Re: Tang Insurance
References: <CAG4Gv-LRZc0_GxXCpT2syafiK9mfZXw8zG5-3PsVUE3i97NZmA@mail.gmail.com> <CAOHBavDPn1LZ-MxzWdBvvoQ3Xa2enMMWnsrQ+QznSAv1ZrtU5g@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-JSZoHFqGLLS2y3DcUwJK5Ztojdbu4BKjex_a_DczscoQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAOHBavCaWSP+SKCkhEzaG3tnWPGfGQ-2-HLVmU2Qh0YT3FeLWg@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-+orhKNCjWQ1qQfngTOo17k3d157gLJaEYroaURGjqepA@mail.gmail.com> <CAOHBavAsp33=3a2WPgd5hd3WHBrWphS6Ab3_tgtOWhbcQ1KZ-w@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-KyR33m+Y1cytoTwWvsk4wkYMSKK6j1XqJhu5zC09AUmg@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-KtYimE6OOzF0y5=7EUK2ZV+XVWb1tV5QVKz2r59Hxv2w@mail.gmail.com> <CAOHBavBLOguibb9FdDVxwG1j90oaxZBWSJdBW0rFZQnfxsQ=+w@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-+LYmYjsucs921T2b=nERY+giwNRQr3G1PCc+jLj9xM0w@mail.gmail.com> <CAOHBavCVWgXO73oP_N_Jho2sGZMaJpzBbiRyKC=RXNXjFtN7Ow@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-LSdpfKmodHa-6gtYtjSA+84YkWMx+zLR_pgVRgP5jqXQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4Gv-J-Hj+Bqq-pZ_qo=E25BN5e72v7ykwxd8pnbEGvafgMkw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAG4Gv-J-Hj+Bqq-pZ_qo=E25BN5e72v7ykwxd8pnbEGvafgMkw@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature";
 boundary="----enig2BWHFDPSIAQTGRPRLCSTE"

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
------enig2BWHFDPSIAQTGRPRLCSTE
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------030602020206000500000305"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------030602020206000500000305
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle wrote:
> Just a confirmation to answer your question "Myself": we lend MrTang
> the money to buy the forced executed. He will have a negative balance
> until he sells the bitcoins he has and/or repay the difference should
> the price go even lower.
>
i dont like that ....also why dont you lent me 150k lol

--------------030602020206000500000305
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite=3D"mid:CAG4Gv-J-Hj+Bqq-pZ_qo=3DE25BN5e72v7ykwxd8pnbEGvafgMkw@mail.gm=
ail.com"
      type=3D"cite">
      <meta http-equiv=3D"Context-Type" content=3D"text/html;
        charset=3DISO-8859-1">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">Just a confirmation to answer your question
        "Myself": we lend MrTang the money to buy the forced executed.
        He will have a negative balance until he sells the bitcoins he
        has and/or repay the difference should the price go even lower.</=
div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    i dont like that ....also why dont you lent me 150k lol<br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------030602020206000500000305--

------enig2BWHFDPSIAQTGRPRLCSTE
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=pcJe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------enig2BWHFDPSIAQTGRPRLCSTE--

[simonk83]

Man, I should have put MPOE-PR on ignore so long ago.  My bad, but consider that rectified.  What a dick.

[myself]

i go to sleep now and tomorrow i am out so don't expect any reply's soon

[Malawi]

myself u are a scammer

Have you looked under your avatar lately?

Trust: -9: -2 / +0(0)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!

[unclescrooge]

I think my post was clear, and I won't add anything to it. If you want to waste your time on childish posts, please do. If you want to drag other names into it, please understand this will not continue on a forum.

Thanks
Raphael

[2586]

@unclescrooge and myself:

3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and wascredited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this Icannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

So the first incident was due to a delayed forced liquidation, correct? What was the second incident (Devasini)? Some sort of bug in the platform?

[Malawi]

@unclescrooge and myself:

3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and wascredited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this Icannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

So the first incident was due to a delayed forced liquidation, correct? What was the second incident (Devasini)? Some sort of bug in the platform?

Think it was that if you put in a wrong value in the price-field, and clicked the "sell/buy at market price", it would use the price you had specified if a counter offer was in the order-list.

[myself]

@unclescrooge and myself:

3. Besides that is required an audit for the entire bitfinex platform,the platform tempered/adjusted twice, first with mister Tang and wascredited from him 150.000 USD, that he didn't deposit in his account,the second time when mister Devasini was credited one million dollars,money that he didn't have deposited in his account. Because of this Icannot be sure if the current losses are real or not.

So the first incident was due to a delayed forced liquidation, correct? What was the second incident (Devasini)? Some sort of bug in the platform?

no is no like that and there was no incident

1) they did not deposit 1 single USD on this accounts
2) they got 150k and 1mil in balance given by R since he got convinced to do this
3) all that money was customer money
4) with that money they get to buy all forced execution positions until all money got used and then sell when the market bounced

[MPOE-PR]

@MPOE-PR if you want any reply from me make short and to the point questions atm i am not in a state to deal with with long+spin+god_know_what posts

That's okay honey, the idea that you somehow are suddenly any less dumb today than last week or last year was a longshot anyway.

It's not for you.

[2586]

no is no like that and there was no incident

1) they did not deposit 1 single USD on this accounts
2) they got 150k and 1mil in balance given by R since he got convinced to do this
3) all that money was customer money
4) with that money they get to buy all forced execution positions until all money got used and then sell when the market bounced

On 03.04.2013 15:04, Raphael Nicolle wrote:
> Just a confirmation to answer your question "Myself": we lend MrTang
> the money to buy the forced executed. He will have a negative balance
> until he sells the bitcoins he has and/or repay the difference should
> the price go even lower.

So Tang and Devasini were just taking on the liabilities incurred by the delays in forced liquidation when the market crashed? As opposed to having lenders take the hit? Am I understanding correctly, and if so, what's wrong with that?

[Deprived]

So Tang and Devasini were just taking on the liabilities incurred by the delays in forced liquidation when the market crashed? As opposed to having lenders take the hit? Am I understanding correctly, and if so, what's wrong with that?

You're not understanding it at all.

Imagine you go to a poker game.  You pay some cash in and get given your chips to play with.

Well in this game (according to myself) some of your opponents were given chips without having to pay for them.  That means you lose either way:

If you lose to them then your money is gone.
If you win at the poker then there's not enough money to buy your chips back off you.

Replace poker with 'gamble by margin-trading on the BTC/USD currency pair' and that's what is being alleged.  The extent to which it (in practice) harmed investors would depend on the price at which bids were placed to buy forced-executed closes : were they at or above market or well below (with a timely DC from Gox to force the execution onto internal orders).  Remember there's no advantage to the person having a forced-execution for it to be to someone associated with the site rather than to random stranger on MtGox.  And there's no real benefit to the site either - as selling BTC held in trust for a user to someone who hasn't deposited the cash to pay for the BTC isn't better in ANY respect than selling to someone for actual cash.

If true it would sound like the Tang situation was along the lines of Tang saying "Can I borrow $150K?  I think BTC is going to go back up shortly so I'd like to buy up some cheap BTC from all the panic sellers and people forced to sell due to margin calls".  And the site crediting him with it.  Obviously that's horrendous for all other users of the site - as if he gets his trading wrong and then doesn't pay then $150k of THEIR cash has now vanished.

Whether it's true or not is hard to tell.  There's two reasons why -

1. Myself is a self-confessed liar.  If what he's saying now is true then he lied previously when claiming everything was honest on the site - and generally acted in a deceptive manner for months, only blowing the whistle when he got cut out from the take.  So we have to decide whether he lied then, now or both times.  And we can't take his word for it - so we lack evidence to reach any conclusion.
2. Scrooge not responding is consistent with innocence (he doesn't want to waste time on entirely fabricated allegations) or with guilt (he just wants the topic to die so he can get away with it).  So we can't conclude anything from the lack of a detailed rebuttal.

The allegations do have the ring of truth about them to me.  But I'd never actually go so far as to reach a conclusion based just on that.  The problem is that although we now all know for certain that myself is a liar, we don't know how GOOD at lieing he is.  So he could just be a very accomplished liar able to make up a convincing-sounding allegation.

Either way myself should get the scammer tag - either for deceiving investors back then or for trying to besmirch the site now (or, conceivably, both).  His own posts convict on one or the other - no need to decide which to give the tag.

If mods want to move forward with the unclescrooge tag then a good starting point would be asking him to confirm or deny whether the email referring to Tang is legitimate.  It's likely it can be verified that it's genuine (if it IS genuine and if he denies it).  If he admits its genuine then an explanation of why they were loaning site members' cash to 'Mr Tang' would be welcome.

Doubt anyone gives a shit about the falling out over the detail of a contract which had no specified duration.