Lets think about the consequences of selling bitcoins to bankers. Our enemy.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

If fiat is cut out from bitcoin, no one is 'laundering money,' there are no regulations to comply with, And bitcoin gains a stable unique unarguable value that does not suffer from exchange rate volatility.

[tutkarz]

bitcoin is about hoarding and becoming rich by sitting on your ass because it's going up yes really this is true ask tutkarz

yep because we should listen to you and value bitcoin at $0.01 so nobody has any use of it. and maybe also send it somewhere so its not hoarded, maybe to your account? but then again, you will be hoarding them all and what will you do with that? shoot yourself?

hoarding increases value of bitcoin and bitcoin have to have meaningful value to be useful because there is too low amount for world needs. i know its hard for you to grasp it. but maybe someday you will be enlighten too.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

bitcoin is about hoarding and becoming rich by sitting on your ass because it's going up yes really this is true ask tutkarz

yep because we should listen to you and value bitcoin at $0.01 so nobody has any use of it. and maybe also send it somewhere so its not hoarded, maybe to your account? but then again, you will be hoarding them all and what will you do with that? shoot yourself?

hoarding increases value of bitcoin and bitcoin have to have meaningful value to be useful because there is too low amount for world needs. i know its hard for you to grasp it. but maybe someday you will be enlighten too.

hoarding, sets up the scenario for massive dollar based price fluctuations, aka Volatility. Rendering it useless for trade.

I think 1 satoshi is equal to 0.10 cents.

We have the internet, there is no reason people can not get on board now-a-days. Its called synchronicity.

Why did ripple decide to give ripples away for free?

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

In a deflationary currency, such as bitcoins, gold, and silver hoarding is a natural occurrence. Therefore I'm fine with it.

In order to encourage the behaviour you want, the only way is to turn bitcoin into an inflationary currency. Which is something I dont want to see.

I think the more important issue, is how can a person with 0 bitcoins obtain a bitcoin or at least a fraction of it through the system?. Currently, there are none, because mining is already a high cost activity. I think it would be nice, if we can find a solution to this problem.

Donation from the miners...

Mining itself does not produce anything, espcially if one mines a bunch of BTC, cashes out and turns off computer.

But if miner acts as central banker...

[hashman]

A bank here has customers from another country, and they send money home.  Bitcoin is cheap.  A bank to bank settling mechanism with bitcoin would help the banks, and in turn make banks protect bitcoin.  Don't treat them as an enemy, treat them as a powerful neighbor that we want to form an alliance with.

To get bitcoins without mining:  do what you do with money without a printing press.  Work, or sell goods & services.  I try to convince my wife that bitcoin is valuable, because I can get on the web and buy coffee with them.

Someone sells coffee, and they get bitcoins. 
Find what you can sell.

The banks will never be your friend. Hindsight vision is 20-20 right?

Bankers are our enemy?  You need to be more specific.  Are you talking about MtGox?  Jamie Dimon?  Perhaps you mean US Central Bankers?  Satoshi, who figured out great ways to store, use and transfer money, was a banker.   If you're just looking for a scapegoat why not use traditional racial ones? 

 

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

A bank here has customers from another country, and they send money home.  Bitcoin is cheap.  A bank to bank settling mechanism with bitcoin would help the banks, and in turn make banks protect bitcoin.  Don't treat them as an enemy, treat them as a powerful neighbor that we want to form an alliance with.

To get bitcoins without mining:  do what you do with money without a printing press.  Work, or sell goods & services.  I try to convince my wife that bitcoin is valuable, because I can get on the web and buy coffee with them.

Someone sells coffee, and they get bitcoins.  
Find what you can sell.

The banks will never be your friend. Hindsight vision is 20-20 right?

Bankers are our enemy?  You need to be more specific.  Are you talking about MtGox?  Jamie Dimon?  Perhaps you mean US Central Bankers?  Satoshi, who figured out great ways to store, use and transfer money, was a banker.   If you're just looking for a scapegoat why not use traditional racial ones?  

  

The bankers fiat

Maybe I am on point with my argument, just 20 years too soon.

[tutkarz]

bitcoin is about hoarding and becoming rich by sitting on your ass because it's going up yes really this is true ask tutkarz

yep because we should listen to you and value bitcoin at $0.01 so nobody has any use of it. and maybe also send it somewhere so its not hoarded, maybe to your account? but then again, you will be hoarding them all and what will you do with that? shoot yourself?

hoarding increases value of bitcoin and bitcoin have to have meaningful value to be useful because there is too low amount for world needs. i know its hard for you to grasp it. but maybe someday you will be enlighten too.

hoarding, sets up the scenario for massive dollar based price fluctuations, aka Volatility. Rendering it useless for trade.

I think 1 satoshi is equal to 0.10 cents.

We have the internet, there is no reason people can not get on board now-a-days. Its called synchronicity.

it would be good that some people would finally understand, that thanks to bitcoin promise of becoming rich and thanks to possibility to hoard bitcoins, we are talking here in this forums in the first place. Because if it wouldn't be possible, nobody would know about bitcoin to this day and nobody would use bitcoin ever. Because if it would have fiat properties and on top of all cons of fiat it would be also unregulated, then it would have 0 value forever and it would be impossible to even transfer any money using it.

When people will understand this then maybe they will stop complaining and forcing people to do things they dont want to do. Because we already had this in history when our precious governments cheated on us saying our money was worth as much as gold and later even stopped pretending its worth that much, they created financial crisis we already have. Imagine, you are trying to do the same. And bitcoin was created because of that crisis.

Why did ripple decide to give ripples away for free?

they didnt. many people including me didnt got any ripple for free and guess what, they advised me to BUY them. good one.

btw how much money you can transfer using protocol that has 0 value? simple question to enable thinking.

[Seth Otterstad]

The government is our enemy, not the banks.  Banks don't make too much money on the areas that bitcoin will attack, which is stuff like wire fees and currency conversion fees. The bread and butter of banking profits is investing customer deposits. They don't care if that currency is USD or EUR or bitcoin. They will let me deposit bitcoin, make a profit with it, and give me a return.

[benjamindees]

The bread and butter of banking profits is investing customer deposits.

Oh, jeez, please spare us from hearing your grandmother's view of how the world works.  It's a Wonderful Life hasn't been a realistic model of banking for decades.  Banks don't care about deposited capital.  They "invest" by using free money from the FED and insider information to front-run their own customers.  This predatory collusion between bankers and government is the entire reason Bitcoin exists.  And, yes, the OP is entirely correct to point out that banks will naturally attempt to use their government-granted privileges to co-opt Bitcoin, just like they co-opt everything else.  They aren't your friends.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

In order to encourage the behaviour you want, the only way is to turn bitcoin into an inflationary currency. Which is something I dont want to see.

I think the more important issue, is how can a person with 0 bitcoins obtain a bitcoin or at least a fraction of it through the system?. Currently, there are none, because mining is already a high cost activity. I think it would be nice, if we can find a solution to this problem.

Cut money out of it, and build a new world!!!!! And you will also see spending habits change, where dollars are attached to numbers, bitcoin become more than a number, it is unit of value.

I do think bitcoin may need to be reset. Let the current mode allow the miners to upgrade their software to asic, and then reset the game. Next time with no money involved. Just bitcoin to bitcoin.

[ArticMine]

When it comes to the enemies of Bitcoin, it is not banks nor for that matter governments. The biggest enemy of Bitcoin so far has been Apple who by using their market share worldwide as a tool for censorship has already done way more damage.

At a very fundamental level Apple's business model is predicated on taking complete control over computing devices away from end users, on the other hand Bitcoin's entire security model is predicated on end users having complete control over their computing devices. The conflict on a very fundamental level should be clear to anyone who actually cares to look.

I should add that when it comes to harming Bitcoin Microsoft, is steadily heading in that direction with DRM, particularly after Vista, "secure"  boot in Windows 8 and especially with Windows 8 RT. So when it comes to the enemies of Bitcoin after Apple's gold Microsoft is fighting hard for silver.

Before going to war it might be a good idea to first determine who the real enemies are.

[ArticMine]

The government is our enemy, not the banks.  Banks don't make too much money on the areas that bitcoin will attack, which is stuff like wire fees and currency conversion fees. The bread and butter of banking profits is investing customer deposits. They don't care if that currency is USD or EUR or bitcoin. They will let me deposit bitcoin, make a profit with it, and give me a return.

Replace "The government" with "Apple" and I will say +1

[Seth Otterstad]

The bread and butter of banking profits is investing customer deposits.

Oh, jeez, please spare us from hearing your grandmother's view of how the world works.  It's a Wonderful Life hasn't been a realistic model of banking for decades.  Banks don't care about deposited capital.  They "invest" by using free money from the FED and insider information to front-run their own customers.  This predatory collusion between bankers and government is the entire reason Bitcoin exists.  And, yes, the OP is entirely correct to point out that banks will naturally attempt to use their government-granted privileges to co-opt Bitcoin, just like they co-opt everything else.  They aren't your friends.

Clearly you are American and are under the impression that if something operates a certain way for 4% of the world's population, the entire planet must be the same.  The US banking system is archaic relative to other first world countries.  The vast majority of the world's banks earn their profits from reinvesting customer deposits.

US banks have 9t in deposits.  Saying they "don't care about deposited capital" is idiotic.  Loaning that out is how they make their money.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-19/us-deposits-perspective-25-billion-insurance-9283-billion-deposits-297514-billion-de

[TippingPoint]

When it comes to the enemies of Bitcoin, it is not banks nor for that matter governments. The biggest enemy of Bitcoin so far has been Apple who by using their market share worldwide as a tool for censorship has already done way more damage.

At a very fundamental level Apple's business model is predicated on taking complete control over computing devices away from end users, on the other hand Bitcoin's entire security model is predicated on end users having complete control over their computing devices. The conflict on a very fundamental level should be clear to anyone who actually cares to look.

I should add that when it comes to harming Bitcoin Microsoft, is steadily heading in that direction with DRM, particularly after Vista, "secure"  boot in Windows 8 and especially with Windows 8 RT. So when it comes to the enemies of Bitcoin after Apple's gold Microsoft is fighting hard for silver.

Before going to war it might be a good idea to first determine who the real enemies are.

Nice post.  Buried in a vast ocean of alphanumeric packing material.

Centuries from now, archaeologists may discover it.