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Author Topic: Too late for mining?  (Read 1603 times)
pokerFace2
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June 04, 2013, 02:09:42 PM
 #21

ASIC's cant mine Scrypt coins. i guess they saw this coming.

now, but there is work on fpga Scrypt mining. ASIC is just next step
jboogie
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June 04, 2013, 02:11:04 PM
 #22

Though it might not be too late to start mining, it's an extremely competitive business and it would require ALOT of careful planning and taking risky investments (buying asic preorders)... You might be better off investing in securities (see the securities subforum) - there are stocks that have a one to one correspondence with MHash, and you get dividends from mining.
Spectrome
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June 04, 2013, 02:16:15 PM
 #23

ASIC's cant mine Scrypt coins. i guess they saw this coming.

now, but there is work on fpga Scrypt mining. ASIC is just next step


This should buy another 1yr at least.

They already have CPU's with Memory caches for Scrypt, its called a PC / GPU, Literally to get the CPU / Memory ratio correct they need to compete with AMD / Intel and NVidia. its not a simple case of placing chips in array like BFL are doing.

either-way the coming months are going to be very Interesting, I'm holding back from adjusting my setup/Spending more money until the dust clears.

btw its good to join the forum, ive been reading for some time but just decided to sign up.

e2a: spellims & grammaticals
J35st3r
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June 04, 2013, 02:18:19 PM
 #24

ASIC's cant mine Scrypt coins. i guess they saw this coming.
now, but there is work on fpga Scrypt mining. ASIC is just next step

FPGA scrypt is tricky as you need to attach high bandwidth RAM, and what you end up building is not that much different from a GPU card (albeit with a much more flexible processor core). ASIC would take this further by building the RAM on-die, which will give much faster access times. Its doable, but will anyone make the up-front investment to make it happen?

Edit: cross posted with your's Spectrome, but it looks like we're in agreement. Welcome!

1Jest66T6Jw1gSVpvYpYLXR6qgnch6QYU1 NumberOfTheBeast ... go on, give it a try Grin
bournedelta04
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June 04, 2013, 02:39:27 PM
 #25

I'm currently mining Litecoins with my GPUs, though I have a 4.5GH/s miner on order from BFL (ordered in March). I'm not holding my breath...
PaperClip
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June 04, 2013, 07:16:53 PM
 #26

Last year average increase every two weeks was 3,74%. This year it is already 12,87%. And it will go up after all Avalons will be delivered. And then there will be bunch of DIY miners from Avalon chips, and probably BFL. Very soon mining will be profitable only for miners with rare elite hardware.

Which is why I chose 20% to illustrate my example, it may seem high now but once the next batch of Avalons and all those DIY chip miners come on stream it can ony go upwards. Perhaps the chip purchases will be profitable. Avalon is roughly 0.08BTC for 300MHash/s plus assembly costs, but you're still looking at up to 3 months delivery on new orders - 10 weeks for the chips, then all the business of getting them built onto mining boards. I'd have taken a punt if I had the BTC in hand, but the minimum order is typically 10 chips, and I'm a bit light on coin at the moment.
I will definitely not buy chips. For not engineer it seems impossible to assemble something useful with them Sad
I am planning to spent few thousands on working ASIC. Avalon batch 4, or BFL if they will prove their legitimacy, or other new dealers on market.

But, again back to difficulty. Its impossible for it to grow geometrically too long.
With 120% increase of difficulty every two weeks for next 6 months - result will be around 100,000,000.
This number seems impossible for me. The thing is that each ASIC does not increase difficulty by multiplying it to some coefficient. Otherwise, it just adds some value to it. And total amount of added difficulty is limited by ASIC production speed. Current difficulty is 12,153,411. All Avalon batches #2 and #3 ASICs together are 1200 pieces * 70GH/s each = 84TH/s. This will give difficulty increase for 12,000,000. If some amount of them is already delivered and working - increase will be even less.
Then, there will be BFL. I have no idea about their produced ASIC quantity. Lets assume BFL will provide total hashing power the same as all Avalon ASICs together - 1500 pieces * 70GH/s each = 105 TH/s (corresponding difficulty increase is 15,000,000).
Totally that will be 12,153,411 + 12,000,000 + 15,000,000 = 39,153,411 (difficulties).
To fill remaining 60,000,000 difficulty points - someone will need to produce chips with total hashing power of 430 TH/s (it is Avalon chips, BlockEruptors, private ASICminers, BFL chips..). To compare - current power of all miners in network is around 86 TH/s, and is increasing for ~8 TH/s every two weeks. Additional 430 TH/s is way to much, it seems impossible.

I'd say that difficulty will reach this 40M mark as soon as Avalon and BFL will deliver ASICs, but then it will grow much slower.
Now in my calculations to find possible profit of ASIC - I assume 2M increase of difficulty every two weeks (two times bigger than current).
In this case - BFL 50GH/s received in September will generate 270 BTC profit in two years.
USB Block Eruptor received today will generate 2,5 BTC in 2 years (and then subtract its price of 2 BTC and you have profit of 0,5 BTC. In case if difficulty increase is only 1M/2weeks (like average now) - then profit is bigger for 1 BTC. But its best case scenario, better profit is impossible. If difficulty increase will remain 1M/2weeks - it will be completely unprofitable to buy it after 6 months. In reality it will become unprofitable even faster)
J35st3r
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June 04, 2013, 08:09:44 PM
 #27

PaperClip

True, nothing can grow forever in the physical world,

You may enjoy the threads in this subforum https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=81.0
Optimator is predicting 250M by December https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=216358.0  (though he has his critics)

The direct chip orders may well be the decider. If the third-party board manufacturers get their act together, then we may see a huge spike in chip orders, which the foundries will be glad to supply with their 10 week leadtime (provided Avalon and BFL don't decide to choke off the supply ... its their Intellectual Property after all).

And there are others planning ASIC designs too (some will be scammers, but not all). There is money to be made here with the examples of Avalon and ASCIMINER (and perhaps BFL too, who are sitting on a pile of preorders they are failing to supply).

Good luck with your investments, at least you are putting your money where your convictions lie.

1Jest66T6Jw1gSVpvYpYLXR6qgnch6QYU1 NumberOfTheBeast ... go on, give it a try Grin
PaperClip
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June 04, 2013, 09:10:28 PM
 #28

Thanks! Those forum topics have a lot of information, I can try to estimate hashing power of new chips, based on information from there.
Btw, I have created this excel document to estimate profit for devices, you might find it useful: http://depositfiles.com/files/ujh878mvm
po1992one
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June 04, 2013, 09:18:36 PM
 #29

Thank you for the usefull info here, I think i will wait with my "investment" of about 2grand and will see how the situation develops
Svennisen
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June 04, 2013, 09:36:50 PM
 #30

If you invest in a high Hash asic it is not to late, but any other device is not profitable right now.

Got help from me? Feel free to tip me Smiley   BTC: 13hrdpUSJWhe2n4g4kTSHEx4GYUF9v5CU3
zendantom
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June 04, 2013, 09:39:24 PM
 #31

If you invest in a high Hash asic it is not to late, but any other device is not profitable right now.

Yup, just i wish they are in stock. Preorder sucks

lopheaded
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June 04, 2013, 10:34:50 PM
 #32

Not to late.
  split your hashing power to a few different coin and you will be fine..

hellfrozenow
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June 04, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
 #33

Not to late.
  split your hashing power to a few different coin and you will be fine..

with my one GPU it would be slim amounts of mined coins though.

Why not choose only one coin  Huh
tuntap
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June 04, 2013, 10:43:13 PM
 #34

Never too late.
crazynoggin
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June 04, 2013, 10:48:37 PM
 #35

I feel like if you have enough money to spend and risk loosing, then sure its not too late to start mining.

Use my referral link if you want: https://primedice.com/?ref=Crazynoggin
lopheaded
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June 04, 2013, 10:59:49 PM
 #36

Not to late.
  split your hashing power to a few different coin and you will be fine..

with my one GPU it would be slim amounts of mined coins though.

Why not choose only one coin  Huh


Something about having all your eggs in one basket  Wink


iram9037
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June 04, 2013, 11:05:58 PM
 #37

I think its profitable mining new alt coins right now.
boldar
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June 05, 2013, 02:45:33 AM
 #38

i have just made  5 replys

This is why the five post rule is stupid...

Well, it's rule to at least try to weed out the idiot spammers...  it makes it just a little more time consuming for them tso the trolls with the small attention spans go elsewhere...
2jase
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June 05, 2013, 03:16:44 AM
 #39

You may not make much, if anything, now once you factor in electricity and A/C but if you expect BTC to appreciate in price (look what it's done in the last year) what you mine today could be worth something eventually.

There's always the $75,000 pizza: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/this-pizza-is-worth-750000. Even if it's not true, it illustrates my point.

Do you have faith in it or not?
rizzman
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June 05, 2013, 04:43:58 AM
 #40

Any idea if is it currently possible to get asic mining devices? As far as I know it seems that there are long ques on orders and that some of the devices where paid long time ago (in advance) and not yet delivered.

High risk business looks to me... but tempting.

Keep your eye on KCMiner this week, the news will be out tomorrow and we should have a clearer idea if these guys have a chance to deliver...Just make sure you go on their site and get yourself in the queue.. Also ,your gonna need big cash to get into the game if you wanna run with the big boys (ASICs)

Agreed... There's alot of risk in this hobby. But I look at it in this respect... The more we use it, and more importantly, the more we offer services and accept payment in bitcoin, the more people will come to value it, we are in essence creating a self fulfilling prophecy
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