Why we should support TradeHill (and others), it will make the world better

[marvinmartian]

You gotta admit, they're next in line.  Also, consider the following:

I.  Free market economics will do bitcoin well, potentially very, very well.  Recent history mandates that people migrate from an inferior product to a superior one.  It will make the world better.

  EG., when US auto makers started making crap, Japanese cars flooded the world and have improved it.

  EG.,  when RIM fell asleep at the wheel, Apple launched the iPhone and the world has improved as a result.

Personally, I think many people are still waiting to see what happens when Mt. Gox opens and hope to make some profit in the chaos.  That's all fine and well.  I hope people have fun (me included).

But after that, it would help the entire bitcoin economy for people to migrate.

II.  Currently, the price of $/BTC is stuck.  It has seen a rock-solid resistance at around $17, right where Mt. Gox left it.  The price needs to RISE in accordance with the rising difficulty level.  It can't because it's being held back by the major market staying closed.

Look at how the price fell from around $17 back to support at $15 almost precisely when Mt. Gox DID NOT open today.  Coincidence, I think not.

The situation is now becoming toxic for bitcoins in a larger sense.  I repeat, the price needs to be free to rise and fall in accordance with more relevant influences (eg., difficulty level).  Anything that gunks up the machinery needs to be weeded out earlier than later.

III.  Anyone remember Betamax?


So in conclusion, I say to you all, do your part to make the world a better place.

[1715157563]

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[1715157563]

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[Chucksta]

Only good for people with US bank accounts as non US bank transfer charges are way too expensive with TradeHill. Damned extortionate. 

[marvinmartian]

Only good for people with US bank accounts as non US bank transfer charges are way too expensive with TradeHill. Damned extortionate. 

I bet they're working on a way to fix that ASAP.  Shouldn't be hard to set up an intermediary here in the US.

[marvinmartian]

Only good for people with US bank accounts as non US bank transfer charges are way too expensive with TradeHill. Damned extortionate. 

Does Dwolla charge exorbitant fees as well?

[Atom]

Tradehill could be good, but it could also be bad.  If you watch the main guy from tradehills interview on the Bitcoin Show #2 (the video one) he says some odd things like (paraphrasing) "we can't wait for government regulation", that they're based from an undisclosed location in Chile, and that most of the backing comes from "wall street".

Those are some real key alert words telling me further investigation is warranted before you start declaring the new messiah of BTC

[marvinmartian]

Tradehill could be good, but it could also be bad.  If you watch the main guy from tradehills interview on the Bitcoin Show #2 (the video one) he says some odd things like (paraphrasing) "we can't wait for government regulation", that they're based from an undisclosed location in Chile, and that most of the backing comes from "wall street".

Those are some real key alert words telling me further investigation is warranted before you start declaring the new messiah of BTC

I reject the messiah analogy.  I don't think bitcoins will be "saved" by any particular entity.  Rather, I'm suggesting people be mindful of what is helpful to markets.  Move towards quality ... and move quickly if you can.

If TradeHill doesn't live up to expectations, someone else will jump into the business.  I humbly offer the evolutionary analogy in counter to your messianic one.

Do you think we'd have Intel without AMD?  How about Nvidia without ATI ... to speak with a bit more portent.

Rest assured, Wall Street is watching bitcoins closely.  Do you seriously think people who break the law on a regular basis (insider traders ... recent report showed it's more rampant than ever imagined), set up Ponzi schemes, and modify legislation to suit their own financial gain (eg., the credit bubble that led to the recent US economic collapse) ... aren't willing to try out something like bitcoins?  They're drooling ... but being a bit more wise and patient ... are waiting.

[Atom]

or at least you think so.  Me?   I have questions.

And lets be clear here, wall streets involvement is bad for business exactly *because* they make their living off rigging markets - Say what you want about how smart they are or whatever, but privatized gains and socialized losses is pretty good work if you can get it.

[marvinmartian]

or at least you think so.  Me?   I have questions.

And lets be clear here, wall streets involvement is bad for business exactly *because* they make their living off rigging markets - Say what you want about how smart they are or whatever, but privatized gains and socialized losses is pretty good work if you can get it.

Agreed.  But they have money and like making more of it.  I contend that their jumping into the BTC economy will be good for us.  Capital influx will increase volume and bring more $$$ to the party.

I shouldn't have limited my "their watching" list to Wall Street.

   replace("Wall Street", "Investors with lots of money");

The only way anyone can rig the btc market at this point is by monopoly. 

So just as every miner worth their salt can point their rigs at a half-dozen pools at the flick of a switch, so should anyone wanting to buy or sell btcs be able to do the same.

[FooDSt4mP]

Use what you want.  I'll use what I want.  The exchanges that keep people happy will stay open.  Quit dictating to the market what it should do.  No one cares what you want us to do.  We don't need to all move to one exchange.  We need diversity.

[Atom]

or at least you think so.  Me?   I have questions.

And lets be clear here, wall streets involvement is bad for business exactly *because* they make their living off rigging markets - Say what you want about how smart they are or whatever, but privatized gains and socialized losses is pretty good work if you can get it.

Agreed.  But they have money and like making more of it.  I contend that their jumping into the BTC economy will be good for us.  Capital influx will increase volume and bring more $$$ to the party.

I shouldn't have limited my "their watching" list to Wall Street.

   replace("Wall Street", "Investors with lots of money");

The only way anyone can rig the btc market at this point is by monopoly. 

So just as every miner worth their salt can point their rigs at a half-dozen pools at the flick of a switch, so should anyone wanting to buy or sell btcs be able to do the same.

Regarding the money - Trust me, we do NOT need the state of New York in bitcoin more than we need wallstreet in bitcoin - The money is out there among the people who will turn it into BTC, that's where your capital influx is coming from - people like me.     If I were "wallstreet" I would seek a proportionally oversized share of the market by funneling some cheap USD (just a few million, chump change), then use that position to shake out weak hands in the market, just like they do everywhere else.

Actually, as an exchange you don't need a monopoly to rig the market - you just need to be non-transparent about how you hold your users BTC, which describes tradehills practices pretty well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm using it too - But I'm not keeping more than a few BTC sitting around in that account.   But you trust them, so enjoy!

[marvinmartian]

Use what you want.  I'll use what I want.  The exchanges that keep people happy will stay open.  Quit dictating to the market what it should do.  No one cares what you want us to do.  We don't need to all move to one exchange.  We need diversity.

Really?  I'm the dictator?  Woohoo!

Ok, fine.  Let's stop talking about everything.  You first.

[YoYa]

III.  Anyone remember Betamax?

Your kidding right?

Trade hill still doesn't have websockets or real time data. Also for a VHS analog it's extremely low on the uptake of it's daily volume of trades.

Speaking of which.....Trades/day = overall market indicator as to which exchange is the markets favorite. TH hasn't even reached 1/6th of Gox's daily volume....and it was just handed a market on a plate.


But the real outcome of the last week....Gox now finds it has competition in the form of TH,B7 and camp bx, and out of the three I feel that only camp bx is the only contender professional enough to vie for market lead.

Why people are pumping TH is beyond me....

[Atom]

because they get a piece of the action for people who join off their link.  This early in the game who knows who the big players are going to be, so every person you sign up is like a lottery ticket that cost you nothing but a little conversation, because some of these accounts are going to see massive volume over the next few years.

at least that's my impression

[marvinmartian]

because they get a piece of the action for people who join off their link.  This early in the game who knows who the big players are going to be, so every person you sign up is like a lottery ticket that cost you nothing but a little conversation, because some of these accounts are going to see massive volume over the next few years.

at least that's my impression

I'm not referring anyone to TradeHill, just to be clear.  My argument for supporting them actually applies to any (non gox) exchange.

[minerX]

because they get a piece of the action for people who join off their link.  This early in the game who knows who the big players are going to be, so every person you sign up is like a lottery ticket that cost you nothing but a little conversation, because some of these accounts are going to see massive volume over the next few years.

at least that's my impression

I'm not referring anyone to TradeHill, just to be clear.  My argument for supporting them actually applies to any (non gox) exchange.

God damn.  Where did you come from?  I open my browser to do some reading and see your god damn fanboi stupid martian plastered over every damn post.

Quit being a fucking fan boy.  If Tradehill wants to survive then it needs to become a better product, END OF STORY. 

FUCK OFF.

[zhalox]

I suspect these "Wall Street/Investors with lots of money" from the USA will be more likely to buy bitcoins from a legally-complying U.S.-based exchange, such as the upcoming must-see Camp BX.  Links for Camp BX are below.  As for me, I think I'll be buying more BTC from there

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20777
http://campbx.com
http://testnet.campbx.com

[bitcoin.monger]

Well, I wish Wall Street were behind TradeHill. Nothing cures a market better than liquidity 

[Atom]

Well, I wish Wall Street were behind TradeHill. Nothing cures a market better than liquidity 

So then you view the NY stock exchange as the pinacle of function?  Yeah, how's that going for you.