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Author Topic: 1 Year Mining Bond, 100% Interest, 100% PPS, 0.0021 BTC/Mh, Free Speed Upgrades.  (Read 1790 times)
Deprived
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June 05, 2013, 10:09:32 PM
 #21

But I wouldn't worry that much as I'm sure you'll do just fine. There are plenty of people around here more than willing to throw money your way regardless of dozens of considerations with this kind of security Cheesy

As for 'anything better', I did a bit of math and it seems my fund would offer (if I went the mining bond route) 529MH/s per Note (BTC1.0 each) ..or 111MH/s at your rate of BTC0.21. Close, but I'm a better investment Tongue

Are you factoring in his buy-back at 200% of face as WELL as the dividends when you compare?

Or the fact that you already changed the terms of your paper twice - the second time with a (barely veiled) threat to default if investors didn't agree to the change.

Both of you are asking investors to trust BFL as well as the issuer.  That's not all that tempting to many people.  BFL have managed to combine incompetence and dishonesty into one tidy package.  ASICs from them - received after difficulty has sky-rocketed - just aren't worth the risk of lending them BTC (repaid pegged to USD if you ever get bored of waiting) interest-free in the hope that they eventually accidentally make a promise that they stumble into delivering upon.
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June 05, 2013, 10:35:37 PM
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*shrugs shoulders* All I'm trying to do is to get you to admit that investor funds will be used to purchase [a portion of] equipment for yourself with no added benefit for the investor.

Why would I deny that? That precisely what the bonds are for.

I don't have a problem with gathering funds for the purchase of equipment (heck, that's what I've done), but I do have a problem when you end up screwing the investor. If the equipment was purchased with investor funds, you shouldn't see a damn dime until you've paid them back. Of course, that's just my take on it ..consider it a '101' in Bitcoin Ethics (which at times seems like an oxymoron, I know).

That's what I am doing.

The proceeds from the sales of the bonds pay for the 25 Gh/s unit. The bond holders get the weekly proceeds from 100% PPS with 5 Gh/s and the proceeds from the other 2 Gh/s go towards purchasing the 50 Gh/s unit.

When the 25 GH/s unit arrives, the bond holders get the proceeds from 100% PPS with 15 GH/s, the proceeds from the other 17 Gh/s go towards the purchase of the 50 GH/s unit.

When the 50 Gh/s unit has been purchased, the proceeds from my 17 Gh/s go into the repayment fund. If the repayment fund contains enough to redeem all bonds, then the proceeds of my 17 Gh/s are mine to use as I see fit.

When the 50 Gh/s unit is operational, the bond holders get the weekly proceeds from 100% PPS with 37.5 Gh/s and the proceeds from the other 44.5 Gh/s go into the repayment fund unless it already contains enough to redeem all bonds. In which case, the proceeds go to me to use how I see fit. Once the repayment fund contains enough to redeem all bonds, the proceeds from the 44.5 Gh/s are mine to use how I see fit.

If the bond holders would like to redeem their bonds at that point, I'd have no problem with that.
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June 05, 2013, 11:30:44 PM
 #23

Are you factoring in his buy-back at 200% of face as WELL as the dividends when you compare?

Or the fact that you already changed the terms of your paper twice - the second time with a (barely veiled) threat to default if investors didn't agree to the change.

I haven't factored anything in past face value, since technically speaking neither one of us has any data to go on other than that. Granted I've done my due diligence on difficulty predictions, repurchasing timeframes and general feasibility..but I suppose that sort of effort isn't really required anymore.

Consider my changes a weaker form of Business Agility, given I've been adapting to the changing market and currency fluctuations, albeit a bit sloppier than I'd have hoped. In hindsight, perhaps a form of Fixed Price contract with an EPA would have been a better option...but I'd say it's about 7 months too late for that. And I wouldn't consider it "barely veiled" ..rather, "strongly advised" based on everything that changed since January.

But I digress..this isn't about me, this is about a "1 Year Mining Bond".


I don't have a problem with gathering funds for the purchase of equipment (heck, that's what I've done), but I do have a problem when you end up screwing the investor. If the equipment was purchased with investor funds, you shouldn't see a damn dime until you've paid them back. Of course, that's just my take on it ..consider it a '101' in Bitcoin Ethics (which at times seems like an oxymoron, I know).

That's what I am doing.

The proceeds from the sales of the bonds pay for the 25 Gh/s unit. The bond holders get the weekly proceeds from 100% PPS with 5 Gh/s and the proceeds from the other 2 Gh/s go towards purchasing the 50 Gh/s unit.

When the 25 GH/s unit arrives, the bond holders get the proceeds from 100% PPS with 15 GH/s, the proceeds from the other 17 Gh/s go towards the purchase of the 50 GH/s unit.

When the 50 Gh/s unit has been purchased, the proceeds from my 17 Gh/s go into the repayment fund. If the repayment fund contains enough to redeem all bonds, then the proceeds of my 17 Gh/s are mine to use as I see fit.

When the 50 Gh/s unit is operational, the bond holders get the weekly proceeds from 100% PPS with 37.5 Gh/s and the proceeds from the other 44.5 Gh/s go into the repayment fund unless it already contains enough to redeem all bonds. In which case, the proceeds go to me to use how I see fit. Once the repayment fund contains enough to redeem all bonds, the proceeds from the 44.5 Gh/s are mine to use how I see fit.

If the bond holders would like to redeem their bonds at that point, I'd have no problem with that.

See, that's a lot better! When you add detail to the mix, there's a hell of a lot less confusion as to how the operation will be run. What you've written above is substantially better (from a third party perspective) than "I'm using investor funds to cover 30GH/s of equipment, but only paying them for 15GH/s".
Phew..why did it take so long to get to this point..

Alrighty..one last question and I swear I'm done:
What's your difficulty prediction 90 days and 180 days out (from today)?

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June 05, 2013, 11:41:31 PM
 #24

*shrugs shoulders* All I'm trying to do is to get you to admit that investor funds will be used to purchase [a portion of] equipment for yourself with no added benefit for the investor.

Why would I deny that? That precisely what the bonds are for.

I don't have a problem with gathering funds for the purchase of equipment (heck, that's what I've done), but I do have a problem when you end up screwing the investor. If the equipment was purchased with investor funds, you shouldn't see a damn dime until you've paid them back. Of course, that's just my take on it ..consider it a '101' in Bitcoin Ethics (which at times seems like an oxymoron, I know).

That's what I am doing.

The proceeds from the sales of the bonds pay for the 25 Gh/s unit. The bond holders get the weekly proceeds from 100% PPS with 5 Gh/s and the proceeds from the other 2 Gh/s go towards purchasing the 50 Gh/s unit.

When the 25 GH/s unit arrives, the bond holders get the proceeds from 100% PPS with 15 GH/s, the proceeds from the other 17 Gh/s go towards the purchase of the 50 GH/s unit.

When the 50 Gh/s unit has been purchased, the proceeds from my 17 Gh/s go into the repayment fund. If the repayment fund contains enough to redeem all bonds, then the proceeds of my 17 Gh/s are mine to use as I see fit.

When the 50 Gh/s unit is operational, the bond holders get the weekly proceeds from 100% PPS with 37.5 Gh/s and the proceeds from the other 44.5 Gh/s go into the repayment fund unless it already contains enough to redeem all bonds. In which case, the proceeds go to me to use how I see fit. Once the repayment fund contains enough to redeem all bonds, the proceeds from the 44.5 Gh/s are mine to use how I see fit.

If the bond holders would like to redeem their bonds at that point, I'd have no problem with that.

Do you have any assets that would ensure your ability to pay back bondholders at face value, other than a plan to use mining proceeds? I ask as I would like to understand who is taking the risk of your models being off. (IE: If difficulty keeps shooting up as it has been, after paying ongoing divs, no model I have come up with leaves you with enough earnings to pay back the bondholders full face value.)

IE: wondering what Guaranteed payback really means.

-helixone
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