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Author Topic: 1 Year Mining Bond, 100% Interest, 100% PPS, 0.0021 BTC/Mh, Free Speed Upgrades.  (Read 1790 times)
Mabsark
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June 04, 2013, 04:43:05 PM
 #1

I have a 5 Gh/s BFL order from the 10th of April which I just upgraded to 7 Gh/s.

I will be issuing 50 bonds at 0.21 BTC each. The bond holder is entitled to 100% of the PPS value for 100 Mh/s, as specified by the pool I mine at, once the 5 Gh/s BFL device is operational.

As soon as I acquire enough funds, I will purchase a 25 GH/s BFL and once it arrives, I will increase the hash rate of each bond to 300 Mh/s.

As soon as I acquire enough funds to purchase a 50 GH/s BFL, I will do so. Once it arrives, I will again increase the hash rate of each bond to 750 Mh/s.

At 100 Mh/s, it's 0.0021 BTC per Mh/s.
At 300 Mh/s, it's 0.0007 BTC per Mh/s.
At 750 Mh/s, it's 0.00028 BTC per Mh/s.

The bond holder is entitled to weekly payments from 100% of the PPS value, as specified by the pool I mine at, at the specified hash rate above. After the 50 Gh/s BFL has been paid for, all proceeds from my BFL mining will be placed into a repayment fund until the repayment fund contains 21 BTC. Starting with the final weekly payment, bonds will be redeemed by the issuer for 0.42 BTC using the funds allocated by the repayment fund. If there isn't enough funds to redeem all bonds at that time, then bonds will be redeemed on a first-in-first-out basis, using all funds from my BFL mining, until all bonds have been redeemed. Weekly payments will start 1 week after the 5 Gh/s device is operational and end 1 year later.

Just gauging interest at the moment.
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June 04, 2013, 04:45:05 PM
 #2

I have a 5 Gh/s BFL order from the 10th of April which I just upgraded to 7 Gh/s. I want to sell 5 Gh/s from that device in chunks of 100 Mh/s for 0.21 BTC each. That's 50 shares, with each share entitled to 100% of the PPS value specified by the pool I mine at.

With all 50 shares sold, I will purchase a 30 GH/s BFL and once it arrives, I will increase the hash rate of each share to 300 Mh/s. Josh has stated that he expects devices purchased today to be shipped in about 90 days.

That gives me 37 Gh/s, out of which, 15 Gh/s would belong to shareholders and 20 Gh/s would belong to me. As soon as I acquire enough funds from those 20 Gh/s to purchase a 60 GH/s BFL, I will do so. Once the device arrives, I will again increase the hash rate of each share to 750 Mh/s.

Would you be interested in such an opportunity?

Too expensive, not worth the risk... for me at least.

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June 04, 2013, 04:50:08 PM
 #3

If Josh says BFL is shipping it in 90 days.. make it 900.. They wont be delivering any time soon.. plus this is very expensive..

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Mabsark
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June 04, 2013, 04:50:33 PM
 #4

Too expensive, not worth the risk... for me at least.

The initial offering works out to be 0.0021 BTC per Mh/s. Once the 60 Gh/s device is acquired, it works out at 0.00028 BTC per Mh/s.

What would you consider a fair price?
Mabsark
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June 04, 2013, 04:57:47 PM
 #5

If Josh says BFL is shipping it in 90 days.. make it 900.. They wont be delivering any time soon.. plus this is very expensive..

What's currently cheaper?

Also, stop spreading idiotic bullshit about BFL. Granted, it might not be 90 days but I doubt it will be more than 120 days. It doesn't matter how long it's taken them to get to the point they're at, once production is ramped up, units will be flying out the doors, and production is about to ramp up.
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June 05, 2013, 02:18:31 PM
 #6

I have a 5 Gh/s BFL order from the 10th of April which I just upgraded to 7 Gh/s. I want to sell 5 Gh/s from that device in chunks of 100 Mh/s for 0.21 BTC each. That's 50 shares, with each share entitled to 100% of the PPS value specified by the pool I mine at.

With all 50 shares sold, I will purchase a 30 GH/s BFL and once it arrives, I will increase the hash rate of each share to 300 Mh/s. Josh has stated that he expects devices purchased today to be shipped in about 90 days.

Just so I have this straight (and correct me if I'm wrong of course):
You purchased and will be receiving a 7GH/s device. Out of those 7GH/s, you're proposing to sell 5GH/s worth in shares (50 shares,100MH/s @ BTC0.21) equating to BTC10.5.

With these BTC10.5, you'll be purchasing a 25GH/s device (formally a 30GH/s Mini Single). At that point, you'll be controlling 32GH/s total.

Now here's where it gets a bit fuzzy for me:
That gives me 37 Gh/s, out of which, 15 Gh/s would belong to shareholders and 20 Gh/s would belong to me. As soon as I acquire enough funds from those 20 Gh/s to purchase a 60 GH/s BFL, I will do so. Once the device arrives, I will again increase the hash rate of each share to 750 Mh/s.

For the sake of math, let's stick with the original 37GH/s for now. How did you come up with the 15GH/s / 20GH/s split between shareholders and yourself? Put simply, shareholders just fully funded a 30GH/s device...why do they only get 15GH/s worth?
As I see it, shareholders not only own the 5GH/s you subsidized out, but also the equipment you purchased with the funds (the "30" GH/s device)...so more of a 35GH/s / 2GH/s split.

Mabsark
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June 05, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
 #7

I have a 5 Gh/s BFL order from the 10th of April which I just upgraded to 7 Gh/s. I want to sell 5 Gh/s from that device in chunks of 100 Mh/s for 0.21 BTC each. That's 50 shares, with each share entitled to 100% of the PPS value specified by the pool I mine at.

With all 50 shares sold, I will purchase a 30 GH/s BFL and once it arrives, I will increase the hash rate of each share to 300 Mh/s. Josh has stated that he expects devices purchased today to be shipped in about 90 days.

Just so I have this straight (and correct me if I'm wrong of course):
You purchased and will be receiving a 7GH/s device. Out of those 7GH/s, you're proposing to sell 5GH/s worth in shares (50 shares,100MH/s @ BTC0.21) equating to BTC10.5.

With these BTC10.5, you'll be purchasing a 25GH/s device (formally a 30GH/s Mini Single). At that point, you'll be controlling 32GH/s total.

Yes, that's correct. (And I'll fix the numbers).

Now here's where it gets a bit fuzzy for me:
That gives me 37 Gh/s, out of which, 15 Gh/s would belong to shareholders and 20 Gh/s would belong to me. As soon as I acquire enough funds from those 20 Gh/s to purchase a 60 GH/s BFL, I will do so. Once the device arrives, I will again increase the hash rate of each share to 750 Mh/s.

For the sake of math, let's stick with the original 37GH/s for now. How did you come up with the 15GH/s / 20GH/s split between shareholders and yourself? Put simply, shareholders just fully funded a 30GH/s device...why do they only get 15GH/s worth?
As I see it, shareholders not only own the 5GH/s you subsidized out, but also the equipment you purchased with the funds (the "30" GH/s device)...so more of a 35GH/s / 2GH/s split.

I'd be selling the proceeds from a specific hash rate. At 100 Mh/s for 0.21 BTC, or 0.0021 BTC per Mh/s, that's cheaper than any of the shares or bonds that I know of at the moment. I'd then upgrade that hash rate by 3x to 300 Mh/s. At that point, it works out to 0.0007 BTC per Mh/s, which is 1/10 the current cost of TAT.VIRTUALMINE. The next upgrade would increase the hash rate by 2.5x to 750 Mh/s, bringing the cost to 0.00028 BTC per Mh/s.

I'm also thinking of whether or not to buy back the shares after a year for 2x the purchase cost, so 0.42  BTC per share. I guess that would make it a loan for 1 year which pays back 100% interest guaranteed, plus a years worth of profits from mining.

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June 05, 2013, 03:56:28 PM
 #8

I'd be selling the proceeds from a specific hash rate. At 100 Mh/s for 0.21 BTC, or 0.0021 BTC per Mh/s, that's cheaper than any of the shares or bonds that I know of at the moment. I'd then upgrade that hash rate by 3x to 300 Mh/s. At that point, it works out to 0.0007 BTC per Mh/s, which is 1/10 the current cost of TAT.VIRTUALMINE. The next upgrade would increase the hash rate by 2.5x to 750 Mh/s, bringing the cost to 0.00028 BTC per Mh/s.

I'm also thinking of whether or not to buy back the shares after a year for 2x the purchase cost, so 0.42  BTC per share. I guess that would make it a loan for 1 year which pays back 100% interest guaranteed, plus a years worth of profits from mining.

Right, I understand that part. Let me try rephrasing:
As it is right now, investors are buying 5GH/s @ 100MH/s each...the proceeds of which are used to purchase 25GH/s. So suddenly those 50 shares are a part of a 30GH/s setup (5GHs from the Jally + 25GHs from the Mini they financed), making the share value 600MH/s apiece instead of 100MH/s.

Yet you're only granting them an increase to 300MH/s instead of the full 600MH/s. Why?

Mabsark
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June 05, 2013, 04:25:30 PM
 #9

I'd be selling the proceeds from a specific hash rate. At 100 Mh/s for 0.21 BTC, or 0.0021 BTC per Mh/s, that's cheaper than any of the shares or bonds that I know of at the moment. I'd then upgrade that hash rate by 3x to 300 Mh/s. At that point, it works out to 0.0007 BTC per Mh/s, which is 1/10 the current cost of TAT.VIRTUALMINE. The next upgrade would increase the hash rate by 2.5x to 750 Mh/s, bringing the cost to 0.00028 BTC per Mh/s.

I'm also thinking of whether or not to buy back the shares after a year for 2x the purchase cost, so 0.42  BTC per share. I guess that would make it a loan for 1 year which pays back 100% interest guaranteed, plus a years worth of profits from mining.

Right, I understand that part. Let me try rephrasing:
As it is right now, investors are buying 5GH/s @ 100MH/s each...the proceeds of which are used to purchase 25GH/s. So suddenly those 50 shares are a part of a 30GH/s setup (5GHs from the Jally + 25GHs from the Mini they financed), making the share value 600MH/s apiece instead of 100MH/s.

Yet you're only granting them an increase to 300MH/s instead of the full 600MH/s. Why?

This is a bond I'm offering, not a stock. I think what I'm offering is extremely generous looking at what's available at the moment.

I've updated the initial post, if you want to have a reread and let me know what you think.
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June 05, 2013, 05:02:24 PM
 #10

I think what I'm offering is extremely generous looking at what's available at the moment.

Extremely generous...

Hmm...

Maybe if your BFL arrives before the close date, 2014/06/01, lol.

Although I do like a guaranteed 100% ROI. (Neglecting risk with you, BTC and the stock market).

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Mabsark
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June 05, 2013, 05:15:43 PM
 #11

I think what I'm offering is extremely generous looking at what's available at the moment.

Extremely generous...

Hmm...

Maybe if your BFL arrives before the close date, 2014/06/01, lol.

Although I do like a guaranteed 100% ROI. (Neglecting risk with you, BTC and the stock market).

I figure I'll have the 5 Gh/s BFL by August. Josh stated that it would probably take around 90 days to ship if an order was placed now. I'd guess that I'd have the 25 Gh/s by November and the 50 Gh/s by January.
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June 05, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
 #12

I figure I'll have the 5 Gh/s BFL by August. Josh stated that it would probably take around 90 days to ship if an order was placed now. I'd guess that I'd have the 25 Gh/s by November and the 50 Gh/s by January.


Josh says a lot of things.

I'd figure in 2 weeks I'll be flying a unicorn over a rainbow into a mosh of naked girls. Two weeks.

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June 05, 2013, 05:53:11 PM
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This is a bond I'm offering, not a stock.

If it's a bond you're offering, not a stock then what have the BFLs got to do with anything?

You're asking for cash now and promising to pay back a certain amount at a later date.

"Bonds will be redeemed by the issuer for 0.42 BTC each on 2014/06/01."

Looks like you're offering a straight 100% interest for a 1 year loan.  What happens if BFL ship late and/or difficulty rises sharply and you don't generate the mined income to pay that back?  Are you offering to pay that fixed amount OR are you offering to pay what you actually mine?  Those are two VERY different propositions and it's not clear which you're offering (and, if the former, how you can be sure of honouring it).

Plus you can't fairly compare your price to TAT's.  If you want to compare you need to be comparing the price of his shares at the date you actually receive your BFLs - until then you're charging an infinite amount per hash (or his price now LESS all the dividends he'd have paid by then).  And if you aren't paying out at all for a year then you have to also take into account possible compounding/opportunity cost on competitors compared to yours where no compounding is possible (as you have the funds not them for the next year).
Mabsark
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June 05, 2013, 05:59:06 PM
 #14

I figure I'll have the 5 Gh/s BFL by August. Josh stated that it would probably take around 90 days to ship if an order was placed now. I'd guess that I'd have the 25 Gh/s by November and the 50 Gh/s by January.


Josh says a lot of things.

I'd figure in 2 weeks I'll be flying a unicorn over a rainbow into a mosh of naked girls. Two weeks.

That's why I'm guessing November and not actually 90 days. And by the end of the year, they should be shipping off the shelf. Let's not kid ourselves, that's a pretty fair estimate, probably even a conservative one.
Mabsark
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June 05, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
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This is a bond I'm offering, not a stock.

If it's a bond you're offering, not a stock then what have the BFLs got to do with anything?

You're asking for cash now and promising to pay back a certain amount at a later date.

The hash rate from the BFLs provide weekly interest payments.

Looks like you're offering a straight 100% interest for a 1 year loan.  What happens if BFL ship late and/or difficulty rises sharply and you don't generate the mined income to pay that back?  Are you offering to pay that fixed amount OR are you offering to pay what you actually mine?  Those are two VERY different propositions and it's not clear which you're offering (and, if the former, how you can be sure of honouring it).

I've update the proposal to hopefully clarify it. As for it being a straight up 100% interest loan, it's 100+, as it includes weekly interest payments as well.
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June 05, 2013, 08:16:36 PM
 #16

You still haven't answered my question. I'll reiterate it just in case you missed it before Wink

Quote
As it is right now, investors are buying 5GH/s @ 100MH/s each...the proceeds of which are used to purchase 25GH/s. So suddenly those 50 "units" are a part of a 30GH/s setup (5GHs from the Jally + 25GHs from the Mini they financed), making the share value 600MH/s apiece instead of 100MH/s.

Yet you're only granting them an increase to 300MH/s instead of the full 600MH/s. Why?

Mabsark
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June 05, 2013, 08:31:47 PM
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You still haven't answered my question. I'll reiterate it just in case you missed it before Wink

Quote
As it is right now, investors are buying 5GH/s @ 100MH/s each...the proceeds of which are used to purchase 25GH/s. So suddenly those 50 "units" are a part of a 30GH/s setup (5GHs from the Jally + 25GHs from the Mini they financed), making the share value 600MH/s apiece instead of 100MH/s.

Yet you're only granting them an increase to 300MH/s instead of the full 600MH/s. Why?

So? There's no need for me offer 600 Mh/s, I can offer what I want. So far, I haven't seen anything better than that and if you have, I'd like you to show me.
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June 05, 2013, 08:32:08 PM
 #18


This is a bond I'm offering, not a stock. I think what I'm offering is extremely generous looking at what's available at the moment.


In other words: "I can do whatever the hell I want because ... Bitcoin!"

CryptoNote needs you! Join the elite merged mining forces right now here in Fantomcoin topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=598823.0
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June 05, 2013, 09:37:07 PM
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As it is right now, investors are buying 5GH/s @ 100MH/s each...the proceeds of which are used to purchase 25GH/s. So suddenly those 50 "units" are a part of a 30GH/s setup (5GHs from the Jally + 25GHs from the Mini they financed), making the share value 600MH/s apiece instead of 100MH/s.

Yet you're only granting them an increase to 300MH/s instead of the full 600MH/s. Why?

So? There's no need for me offer 600 Mh/s, I can offer what I want. So far, I haven't seen anything better than that and if you have, I'd like you to show me.

*shrugs shoulders* All I'm trying to do is to get you to admit that investor funds will be used to purchase [a portion of] equipment for yourself with no added benefit for the investor.
I don't have a problem with gathering funds for the purchase of equipment (heck, that's what I've done), but I do have a problem when you end up screwing the investor. If the equipment was purchased with investor funds, you shouldn't see a damn dime until you've paid them back. Of course, that's just my take on it ..consider it a '101' in Bitcoin Ethics (which at times seems like an oxymoron, I know).

But I wouldn't worry that much as I'm sure you'll do just fine. There are plenty of people around here more than willing to throw money your way regardless of dozens of considerations with this kind of security Cheesy

As for 'anything better', I did a bit of math and it seems my fund would offer (if I went the mining bond route) 529MH/s per Note (BTC1.0 each) ..or 111MH/s at your rate of BTC0.21. Close, but I'm a better investment Tongue

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June 05, 2013, 09:51:44 PM
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You still haven't answered my question. I'll reiterate it just in case you missed it before Wink

Quote
As it is right now, investors are buying 5GH/s @ 100MH/s each...the proceeds of which are used to purchase 25GH/s. So suddenly those 50 "units" are a part of a 30GH/s setup (5GHs from the Jally + 25GHs from the Mini they financed), making the share value 600MH/s apiece instead of 100MH/s.

Yet you're only granting them an increase to 300MH/s instead of the full 600MH/s. Why?

So? There's no need for me offer 600 Mh/s, I can offer what I want. So far, I haven't seen anything better than that and if you have, I'd like you to show me.

I am really glad he pointed out that you are just doing whatever the hell you want, your math didn't even add up at first, and you have no product in hand.  The people that ordered over a year ago might get their units by November, but by then the difficulty will be a whole different story, and you don't even address that.
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