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pangu (OP)
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June 04, 2013, 08:08:16 PM |
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blablahblah
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June 04, 2013, 11:46:34 PM |
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Well, if 'revolutions' only changed things by 180 degrees, they would call them u-turns.
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rudrigorc2
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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June 04, 2013, 11:49:08 PM |
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Well, if 'revolutions' only changed things by 180 degrees, they would call them u-turns.
If I recall revolution is a 360 degree movement, then, are we supposed to in the same spot? Same situation? If so, revolution is far from enough, we need something else. |
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myrkul
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June 05, 2013, 12:09:54 AM |
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Well, if 'revolutions' only changed things by 180 degrees, they would call them u-turns.
If I recall revolution is a 360 degree movement, then, are we supposed to in the same spot? Same situation? If so, revolution is far from enough, we need something else. Revolution. |
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rudrigorc2
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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June 05, 2013, 12:21:35 AM |
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bingo
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blablahblah
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June 05, 2013, 11:01:09 AM |
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Well, if 'revolutions' only changed things by 180 degrees, they would call them u-turns.
If I recall revolution is a 360 degree movement, then, are we supposed to in the same spot? Same situation? If so, revolution is far from enough, we need something else. Revolution. bingo
Except that evolution has also brought about all the 'bad' stuff. Unless you want to blame god and creationism for all those pesky governments? |
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hawkeye
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June 05, 2013, 01:07:57 PM |
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Evolution starts out not great but then weeds out the bad stuff over time.
eg.
we don't have human sacrifice anymore
we don't have slavery anymore
we don't have inquisitions anymore
Government is just one more bad tradition that needs to be disposed of.
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blablahblah
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June 05, 2013, 03:51:08 PM |
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Evolution starts out not great but then weeds out the bad stuff over time.
eg.
we don't have human sacrifice anymore
we don't have slavery anymore
we don't have inquisitions anymore
Government is just one more bad tradition that needs to be disposed of.
Seems to me that it's responsible governance that gets rid of slavery. Otherwise one starts getting things like: - Profit-driven prison systems and a breakdown of whatever justice system is supposedly in play. The lower classes get sent to prison for relatively minor infractions (the judicial process still has to look legitimate when people aren't used to slavery), where they manufacture various goods.
- Vulnerable immigrants get conned into perpetually working off a debt that they accrued in exchange for "protection" or "insurance" while crossing the border.
Evolution brought in governments, followed by better governments, and they weeded out slavery. The gradual collapse of your US empire and its governmental structures is coinciding with a return of the things you listed. |
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hawkeye
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June 06, 2013, 06:05:04 AM |
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Evolution starts out not great but then weeds out the bad stuff over time.
eg.
we don't have human sacrifice anymore
we don't have slavery anymore
we don't have inquisitions anymore
Government is just one more bad tradition that needs to be disposed of.
Seems to me that it's responsible governance that gets rid of slavery. Otherwise one starts getting things like: - Profit-driven prison systems and a breakdown of whatever justice system is supposedly in play. The lower classes get sent to prison for relatively minor infractions (the judicial process still has to look legitimate when people aren't used to slavery), where they manufacture various goods.
- Vulnerable immigrants get conned into perpetually working off a debt that they accrued in exchange for "protection" or "insurance" while crossing the border.
Evolution brought in governments, followed by better governments, and they weeded out slavery. The gradual collapse of your US empire and its governmental structures is coinciding with a return of the things you listed. Government has been around, what a few thousand years now?. Slavery abolished about 150 years ago? Seems like government has been a big supporter of slavery for the vast majority of history. In fact, how can you effectively have slavery if there isn't a govt police force to enforce it? Vulnerable immigrants get conned because of the govt's attitude towards these people. They need protection from the govt, which is looking to throw them in jail and extradite them just for wanting to be productive members of society, and have to go looking to the only people willing to offer it for a price, the criminal underworld. |
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hawkeye
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June 06, 2013, 06:08:59 AM |
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Oh and your profit-driven prison systems. How are they payed for? Through forced taxation maybe?
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pac1
Newbie
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Activity: 18
Merit: 0
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June 09, 2013, 01:50:07 PM |
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pac1
Newbie
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Activity: 18
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June 09, 2013, 01:55:15 PM |
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Maybe everyone gets to vote! massive voting system an all major issues, lets not have a Government because that implies we need governing like inmates, What we need is an administration to get done what the voters demand.
Brave new world based on a tamper proof voting system.
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myrkul
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June 09, 2013, 03:05:21 PM |
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Maybe everyone gets to vote! massive voting system an all major issues, lets not have a Government because that implies we need governing like inmates, What we need is an administration to get done what the voters demand.
Brave new world based on a tamper proof voting system.
Voting is force by proxy. If you stop assuming a monopoly, voting becomes unnecessary. |
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herzmeister
Legendary
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Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007
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June 09, 2013, 03:16:30 PM |
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Voting is just a tool. Also in capitalism, there are usually shareholders that vote.
Without state-supported property rights, society would self-organize in syndicalist structures, and workers would also vote on what to do with the surplus value of their production (reinvest in their own infrastructure or into something else, or allow higher wages, or improve their children's daycare, etc).
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myrkul
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June 10, 2013, 08:51:08 AM |
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Without state-supported property rights...
I don't know about you, but I don't need someone to steal from me to support my property rights. I can support them just fine on my own, and if it comes about that I do need a little help doing so, I am perfectly capable of voluntarily paying someone to help out. Why do you assume that people who want their property rights supported would not desire that in a stateless society? |
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hawkeye
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June 10, 2013, 02:33:31 PM |
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Maybe everyone gets to vote! massive voting system an all major issues, lets not have a Government because that implies we need governing like inmates, What we need is an administration to get done what the voters demand.
Brave new world based on a tamper proof voting system.
Isn't that just the tyranny of the majority? Who cares what 49% of people think, they should be forced to go along with what the 51% want? God help you if you are in a minority group. Give us an example of something that supposedly everybody in the country needs to vote on. I doubt such a thing actually exists. |
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pangu (OP)
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June 11, 2013, 11:29:11 AM |
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Maybe everyone gets to vote! massive voting system an all major issues, lets not have a Government because that implies we need governing like inmates, What we need is an administration to get done what the voters demand.
Brave new world based on a tamper proof voting system.
Isn't that just the tyranny of the majority? Who cares what 49% of people think, they should be forced to go along with what the 51% want? God help you if you are in a minority group. Give us an example of something that supposedly everybody in the country needs to vote on. I doubt such a thing actually exists. +1 |
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countryfree
Legendary
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Activity: 3052
Merit: 1047
Your country may be your worst enemy
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June 11, 2013, 12:45:18 PM |
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Maybe everyone gets to vote! massive voting system an all major issues, lets not have a Government because that implies we need governing like inmates, What we need is an administration to get done what the voters demand.
Brave new world based on a tamper proof voting system.
Isn't that just the tyranny of the majority? Who cares what 49% of people think, they should be forced to go along with what the 51% want? God help you if you are in a minority group. Give us an example of something that supposedly everybody in the country needs to vote on. I doubt such a thing actually exists. This is why anarchists say that the best government is the one that governs the least. With Thoreau's going as far as to say that the best government is the one that doesn't govern at all. |
I used to be a citizen and a taxpayer. Those days are long gone.
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herzmeister
Legendary
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Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007
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June 11, 2013, 01:02:42 PM |
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I don't know about you, but I don't need someone to steal from me to support my property rights. I can support them just fine on my own, and if it comes about that I do need a little help doing so, I am perfectly capable of voluntarily paying someone to help out.
Why do you assume that people who want their property rights supported would not desire that in a stateless society?
I didn't say that. But I'd say that syndicalist structures are mostly just cheaper and more economic. |
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blablahblah
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June 11, 2013, 06:04:10 PM |
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Maybe everyone gets to vote! massive voting system an all major issues, lets not have a Government because that implies we need governing like inmates, What we need is an administration to get done what the voters demand.
Brave new world based on a tamper proof voting system.
Isn't that just the tyranny of the majority? Who cares what 49% of people think, they should be forced to go along with what the 51% want? God help you if you are in a minority group. It seems you would prefer tyranny of the minority instead. The end-game of such a system would be 0.000001% being the smallest minority, and therefore the dictator, or should I say Dear Leader. Anecdotal evidence suggests that democracies are better than dictatorships. So yeah, god help you if you want to be a dictator because I sure won't. |
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