What is the "Request Payment" button for?

[93Vette]

I get the tough love HCP, and I could accept that if that's actually what happened.  But that is not what happened.
I first installed the Android and copied the seed key.  When I later added the pc version all I tried to do was pair the wallets, not open a new one.  So I used the seed key I had.  There was only one key and I have it.
What happened next is anyone's guess.  Jaxx updated the app the day after I installed it.  They also had a problem with their Chrome extension.  Who knows? 
One thing is for sure since I can't "prove anything."  The money I'm talking about will be sitting in limbo forever...and I'll bet you 1 BTC on that!          

Firstly, sorry if I came across as a bit harsh... Cryptocurrency can be quite unforgiving when you get it wrong

Well, you can't shoot the messenger!  Unforgiving is definitely the word.

Honestly, I can't argue with your version of events, I wasn't there and I don't have access to your records/notes and wallets... so all I can tell you is based on what you're currently able to see.

It would appear that what Danny has theorised is most likely the case... that you somehow created TWO wallets on your Android (Jaxx issue?)... only wrote down the seed for the first one... but started using the second one... so the timeline would be something like this:

- Created AndroidWalletA, wrote down SeedA
- Created AndroidWalletB - Possible Jaxx error?
- Sent 1.0 BTC to addresses in AndroidWalletB
- Installed Jaxx on PC, entered SeedA... saw 0 BTC
- Sent money to addresses showing on PC (AndroidWalletA)... saw this amount show up on PC
- Reinstalled the wallet on Android using SeedA... 1.0 BTC disappears along with AndroidWalletB, small amount from AndroidWalletA shows up

That is a pretty shit situation to be honest... I've seen others get into trouble with Electrum on PC as well, when they forget they've used the program before... and start it up and there is an old wallet that the app uses by default and they start receiving funds to the addresses in it, not knowing what the wallet password was (as it only asks for password when you go to send etc)... and they end up with BTC stuck in a wallet that they can't send from

Without the ability to go back in time that version of possible events could have been the case.  I think the wildcard is the possible Jaxx error.   I watch their page on Reddit daily.  While there seems to be plenty of user errors their wallet just doesn't seem to be reliable from all the glitches that frequently arise.   

As for bets... I would also bet 1.0 BTC that Jaxx will deny all liability if they even respond to any of your support requests...  

The are responding to some extent but I agree 100% that they will deny liability.  Which on their part is easy to do knowing the apparent impossibility in proving a case against them.  I am a lawyer by the way so I won't rule it out but you have to be able to prove your case.   

Which brings me to my "case" as it were.  And this is where I just don't get the lack of "proof" because it makes sense to me and the lay people I've explained it to.

1) I fund my account [bank deposit goes to Coinbase in order to allow me to buy BTC]

2) I send BTC to Coinbase.  If I were in court I could physically log into that account which would should the address I sent from, the precise time, amount and address I sent the BTC to.

3) [This is where I need some input] If I plug the BTC address into bitcoinwhoiswho for instance, the address also brings up a numerical "wallet name" - in this case 11687719a239aa23 - does this number identify a wallet like Jaxx?  In my uneducated mind, if this number does identify a particular wallet - one in which I'm claiming I sent the BTC to - then isn't that significant?

4) Now if "the record" of that transaction shows it parked there and unused/unspent then how could it belong to anyone else but me?  I sent it to __ address.  That is the last address you can see.  In other words, I didn't then send it to someone else because the transactions don't show that.

I think my argument probably shows a profound lack of understanding as to the blockchain itself.  My understanding was that, while decentralized, there is transparency in that you can follow the ball.  Therefore, I must have it have it wrong in that there no transparency and therefore you can't prove it's your ball without saying the magic words...                         

     

[HCP]

3) [This is where I need some input] If I plug the BTC address into bitcoinwhoiswho for instance, the address also brings up a numerical "wallet name" - in this case 11687719a239aa23 - does this number identify a wallet like Jaxx?  In my uneducated mind, if this number does identify a particular wallet - one in which I'm claiming I sent the BTC to - then isn't that significant?

That is just some meaningless number that they're invented to try and uniquely identify wallets/addresses... from what I can tell, when they can "link" addresses as having come from the same "wallet" (ie. the addresses were used as inputs to the same transaction) they all get assigned the same wallet name.

4) Now if "the record" of that transaction shows it parked there and unused/unspent then how could it belong to anyone else but me?  I sent it to __ address.  That is the last address you can see.  In other words, I didn't then send it to someone else because the transactions don't show that.

The point is not that you can't prove you sent money to a given address... the point is that without the private keys, you cannot prove that the address containing those coins is yours. The ONLY form of "identification" that the network will accept as proof of "ownership" is being able to sign transactions with the private key... no private key = no ownership... and you don't have the private key

I think my argument probably shows a profound lack of understanding as to the blockchain itself.  My understanding was that, while decentralized, there is transparency in that you can follow the ball.  Therefore, I must have it have it wrong in that there no transparency and therefore you can't prove it's your ball without saying the magic words...                         

Not quite... Everything IS 100% transparent and published for the entire world to see on the blockchain... however, you are correct in saying that you cannot prove it's your ball (address) without saying the magic words (private key)

[93Vette]

Well darn, sometimes it's just a shit result and you have to deal with it.

Previously, and I apologize because there is another thread that you kindly replied to, put you passed along information about a form - BIP 39 Mnemonic.

When I plugged in my backup phrase it generated over 1000 lines...I stopped looking at that point.  Could there potentially be thousands of lines and what again should I be doing with all of this?

Also, if you'll bear with me, I asked another question that no one ever answered, but if you have a one sentence answer I would be grateful.  I put some money in an ICO which ended on 9/28/17.  How long before before that goes public and the coins are on an exchange? That is, can they wait indefinitely or is there a standard length of time?  It's SMNX if you want to know. Yeah, it's shit.     Thanks HCP!               

[HCP]

Previously, and I apologize because there is another thread that you kindly replied to, put you passed along information about a form - BIP 39 Mnemonic.
When I plugged in my backup phrase it generated over 1000 lines...I stopped looking at that point.  Could there potentially be thousands of lines and what again should I be doing with all of this?

There are effectively an "infinite" number of addresses/keys associated with a seed mnemonic... the point of using that tool was just to check that it wasn't a "gap limit" issue. HD wallets will generally only look along the chain of addresses until it detects 20 or so "unused", then it stops assuming that there aren't likely to be addresses further down that chain that have been used. The exact number that it stops after is called the "Gap Limit". The tool simply generates as many addresses as you require, so you can manually look for addresses/coins.

However, at this point, I think we've established that you simply have the "wrong" seed mnemonic, so the tool is of no real use to you.

Also, if you'll bear with me, I asked another question that no one ever answered, but if you have a one sentence answer I would be grateful.  I put some money in an ICO which ended on 9/28/17.  How long before before that goes public and the coins are on an exchange? That is, can they wait indefinitely or is there a standard length of time?  It's SMNX if you want to know. Yeah, it's shit.    Thanks HCP!              

Short answer: How long is a piece of string?

Long answer: you'd need to ask the admins of the ICO... theoretically, it could all be a giant scam and they just run off with everyone's money... they appear to have a "beta" exchange up and running... although as far as I can tell, it has 0 volume. Their twitter/facebook was active 4 days ago... Facebook claims exchange listing in Jan 2018 (https://www.facebook.com/SolomonExICO/) getting listed on an exchange is purely up to the exchange in question, there is never any guarantee that any given exchange will accept any given coin (unless it's one of those pay 1 BTC to get listed type deals )

[93Vette]

Previously, and I apologize because there is another thread that you kindly replied to, put you passed along information about a form - BIP 39 Mnemonic.
When I plugged in my backup phrase it generated over 1000 lines...I stopped looking at that point.  Could there potentially be thousands of lines and what again should I be doing with all of this?

There are effectively an "infinite" number of addresses/keys associated with a seed mnemonic... the point of using that tool was just to check that it wasn't a "gap limit" issue. HD wallets will generally only look along the chain of addresses until it detects 20 or so "unused", then it stops assuming that there aren't likely to be addresses further down that chain that have been used. The exact number that it stops after is called the "Gap Limit". The tool simply generates as many addresses as you require, so you can manually look for addresses/coins.

However, at this point, I think we've established that you simply have the "wrong" seed mnemonic, so the tool is of no real use to you.

Also, if you'll bear with me, I asked another question that no one ever answered, but if you have a one sentence answer I would be grateful.  I put some money in an ICO which ended on 9/28/17.  How long before before that goes public and the coins are on an exchange? That is, can they wait indefinitely or is there a standard length of time?  It's SMNX if you want to know. Yeah, it's shit.    Thanks HCP!              

Short answer: How long is a piece of string?

Long answer: you'd need to ask the admins of the ICO... theoretically, it could all be a giant scam and they just run off with everyone's money... they appear to have a "beta" exchange up and running... although as far as I can tell, it has 0 volume. Their twitter/facebook was active 4 days ago... Facebook claims exchange listing in Jan 2018 (https://www.facebook.com/SolomonExICO/) getting listed on an exchange is purely up to the exchange in question, there is never any guarantee that any given exchange will accept any given coin (unless it's one of those pay 1 BTC to get listed type deals )

Great information!  Thank you very much HCP!  "Grasshopper" is learning!