No Money Exists Without the Majority

[AnonyMint]

> Be careful. Going to 1/50th the value is still hyperinflation, even if he
> does not like to apply that word.   A 98% loss of value of the currency is
> still loss, still hyperinflation, still devaluation, still deadly if you
> hold that.  Armstrong is master of confusion and
> illusion.

1/50th of the value, but you still had to pay your taxes in Rome in 99% gold! A two-tier money system. We have the same thing now.

Your gold investments will go up from $1000 to $3000 - $5000, but they will tax you at 90%. Go look at the tax rates after 1929.

You are missing the point. In empire collapse, you are squeezed between deflation and inflation.

Now the things you must use go up in price, but the things you invest in (houses) go down in price (and even if you invest in gold, they will make sure you lose just as in Rome).

You can't beat the empire. There is no place to run to, except the mountains.

This time the mountains is Bitcoin. But Bitcoin has flaws. I am working on it.

Armstrong is not at all confusing for me.

He has never said that gold won't go up. What he said was that gold would go down first from 2011 to 2013/4/5 (three possibilities for the bottom). Then gold will NOT make a new all-time high until after 2015.75.

And gold will NOT go to $50,000! It will go somewhere in the $3000 - $8000 range, probably $5000.

He has not said that gold isn't money. He has said that a strict gold standard is never sustainable, and he explained why. Society must oscillate between gold and fiat money, because of at least two reasons:

1. Debt isn't possible on a strict gold standard (no fractional reserves)

2. Strict gold standard means savings is 100% more important than production and knowledge formation, because savers (who do nothing but sit on their gold) always get wealthier. You can't pay investors more, because the supply of gold doesn't increase as fast as the increased production value.

Really this is so elemental. Armstrong is just a lot smarter than most people.

[1714708894]

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[1714708894]

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[Lauda]

LaudaM has been placed on ignore and reported to the moderator for trolling (for the comment immediately above this one which has disappeared since I reported it, he said "he is an alien fuck"). He doesn't say anything meaningful and turns my thread into a circus of meaningless noise.

Surely everyone took you as serious and cared about your nonsense. refering @first few posts under you.
Hey let me rewrite my article that i published back in '09 that bitcoin would reach 200+$. It's all legit trust me.

I have actually now have read some of it, and well the conclusion? Wasted 2minutes of my precious time.
Yes I like to be on your ignore list, because trolls@internet too op for you  

Now seriously, this is one of the rare posts that I do not like.

[AnonyMint]

Do you think I care about your call for Bitcoin to go to $200, when I am writing about how you are going to lose it all because you are not anonymous and there will be a wealth tax. I am writing about how empires die. You are writing about speculation.

Get off my lawn child.

[Lauda]

Do you think I care about your call for Bitcoin to go to $200, when I am writing about how you are going to lose it all because you are not anonymous and there will be a wealth tax. I am writing about how empires die. You are writing about speculation.

Get off my lawn child.

It's all legit trust me.

How did you not get this..

I'm not anonymous? *turns online 69 VP's*. Relax nothing againsts you, no offence, but I just don't like it. Entitled to the opinion. If i read it completly ever, there might be a different opinion on this.

[AnonyMint]

I'm not anonymous? *turns online 69 VP's*.

I have no idea what that means.

You can attempt to use Tor or other services to be anonymous while sending a spend transaction for Bitcoin (and other activities on the internet), but:

1. Most users don't figure that out

2. Tor isn't really anonymous (they traded away higher anonymity to get low latency)

3. After 2033, mining stops, so the only way to obtain coins anonymously is meeting someone in physical person (very risky).

[Lauda]

I'm not anonymous? *turns online 69 VP's*.

I have no idea what that means.

You can attempt to use Tor or other services to be anonymous while sending a spend transaction for Bitcoin (and other activities on the internet), but:

1. Most users don't figure that out

2. Tor isn't really anonymous (they traded low latency for higher anonymity)

3. After 2033, mining stops, so the only way to obtain coins anonymously is meeting someone in physical person (very risky).

Well TOR has been proven a problem, and according to the recent incident it's been infected by either FBI or NSA, so that might be a problem.

[AnonyMint]

Well TOR has been proven a problem, and according to the recent incident it's been infected by either FBI or NSA, so that might be a problem.

Tor was designed to be compromised. We can do better:

http://blog.jim.com/economics/bitcoin-as-a-speculative-bet.html/comment-page-1#comment-342148

[AnonyMint]

Click this first link below to read the following text in the context of a longer discussion between myself and James A. Donald (the first person who interacted with Satoshi at the cryptography forum where Satoshi announced Bitcoin).

http://blog.jim.com/culture/radish-explains-what-racism-means.html/comment-page-1#comment-345588

Apologies for this long comment, but I wanted to make it very clear that when empires fall, it is very dangerous for the citizens of the empire.

Rome during and after Diocletian attempted to tax above the Laffer limit. ... Economy collapsed and population declined. It was extremely unpleasant, and the collapse of empire did not make things better.

Indeed, when empires collapse, there isn't hyperinflation, rather the empire state exerts its power until it has destroyed itself (and the citizens) from within. Armstrong wrote more about that today quoted as follows.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/nsa-collects-word-for-word-according-to-pbs/

...

This is all about the financial crisis and this is how ALL governments have collapsed – sheer economic implosion as they turn against their own people. As I have said before. You will pray for the hyperinflation where government simply prints and does not try to confiscate assets. That has just never been the case in developed nations where assets exist. Hyperinflation is associated with governments that are typically new and revolutionary where hard assets are hoarded and not present in banks and there is not debt market for nobody will lend to them. We are not at that stage at this time. We first have to see confidence collapse and the bond market implode with nobody buying. But where does ca[ital then go since there is no alternative? The future is just not going to be such a easy way out.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/how-empires-collapse-a-orderly-path-to-conclusion/

A number of people have asked what does the future really hold with the civil unrest/war cycle turning up next year. Government NEVER collapse because of revolution. Let’s get this one very straight. Any government as long as it is strong will crush into dust any resistance. The key to the collapse of empires is the die from inside normally by their own hand. Communism fell of its own accord. We did not do a damn thing. Communism was economically unsustainable. As that worked its way through the veins of power, their economies simply imploded.

This is why I am warning that socialism is collapsing. Government is hunting down every penny it can find. It will destroy the economy in the process and that is the ultimate irony. Western government are simply unsustainable. We cannot constantly confiscate assets and pour them into interest and pension to sustain government. The economy grows weaker and the revenues decline as they become more and more aggressive.

The Barbarians were at the gates of Rome for more than a century. They could not make any headway until the 3rd century when the financial of Rome were imploding. Undermine the economy, you weaken the government, and then it falls. The rise of people in arms is NEVER the actual event the changes the cycle. It is the final act that completes the cycle. The cycle is already declining and then when the people cannot take it any more, they will rise up. They get the credit, but in fact, the government is declining just as we saw in China. When the man stood before the tanks, it did not take long for the government to really fail.

Revolution is the final act, never the first. Here is a famous Maryland Propaganda Note intended to justify war because of the injustice of the King. The king of England played a game with the American colonies. Anything they bought from England had to be paid in silver or gold. However, whatever they sold to England was paid in copper. Hence, he was extorting the American Colonies and bleeding them dry. First comes the economic decline – then comes the Revolution. So what must take place FIRST is the economic collapse and that will then lead to discontent. Why do you think they are passing all these [dracronian] laws one step at a time that follows a planned path only an idiot cannot see because they do not wish to.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/obama-trying-to-cover-up-another-investigative-program/

Bloomberg News has reported that Federal courts now allow the IRS to issue summonses to US banks at the request of the Norwegian government, to hunt down their citizens with assets in the USA.  All of these government are hunting money – not terrorists. This is the collapse of fiscal mismanagement. Forget the hyperinflation. These people will not go quietly into the night or light. They are kicking and screaming and will die like an insane madman in a violent oppression of the people.

You wrote more about that here:

Indeed, probably due to plagues of various kinds

Pinker attributes the entire population decline to the fall of Rome, even though it set in before the fall or Rome.

In fact, what happened was that Rome was in financial trouble because, like much of Europe, it was taxing well above the Laffer limit. Well, thought Diocletian, if overtaxed people will not work, make them work. So he in large part instituted a command economy, which probably caused rises in the death rates for the usual reasons that we observe command economies killing people today and during the twentieth century. Basically, in a command economy, you have to murder people to get stuff done.

Before I was banned, I also rebutted Winter's theories on the decline of Rome here:

@Winter:
You attempt to remove blame from the effects of top-down governance. Agriculture in Western Europe declined for numerous reasons all of which can be attributed to mismanagement due to top-down control and the funding of such misallocation. Socialized debt is a future tax. The agricultural sector was suffering under increasing taxes after the hyperinflation of the 3rd century had adversely impacted funding for the military while there were increasing military threats to the east. Pottery records indicate production increased through the 4th, as the rural sector was squeezed for every drop by Rome. As with all debt funding, growth was too rapid, and irrigation was polluted by clearing for too many new settlements. The resultant malnutrition, declining production, localized warlords, and thus disease coincided with the collapse of Western Europe due to the bankruptcy of its top-down militarized, servitude model.

We will likely find the same top-down cause applies to of all Dark Ages– even the famines in Africa.

And here:

The population of Rome plummeted -97% from 1.4 million in 450AD to 40,000 over the next 1000+ years.[1]

Dark Ages where the population abandons cities occurred in Greece from 1600 – 1200BC (with coinage only re-appearing in 7th century BC), after the collapse of Rome that lasted 600 years, and in Japan for 600 years during which no coinage was created.[2]

[1] Sovereign Debt Crisis Conference, Armstrong
[2] Are we Headed into a Mad Max Scenario?, Armstrong

[digitalindustry]

Anony , you of course do know that Martin Armstrong worked for the federal government don't you ?

In fact if you research carefully you can see the very strong connections between Martin Armstrong , and the many many webs that make up the broard federal communication systems  intelligence network .

They might not seem obvious to you straight away , but if you do actually research you will see the connections .

Furthermore , with regards to the NSA designing and releasing Bitcoin , well ,  I think you can look at Martin Armstrong's well connected history in this regard also.

Now do not misunderstand my response to you , as going in a somewhat tralfamadorian direction , but I have to ask you Anony , how well do you know Martin Armstrong ?

Just how well ....

[AnonyMint]

So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial? 

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

[AnonyMint]

Discussion between myself and James A. Donald (the first person who interacted with Satoshi at the cryptography forum where Satoshi announced Bitcoin):

http://blog.jim.com/culture/radish-explains-what-racism-means.html/comment-page-1#comment-345629

If bitcoin is fixed – made scalable so as to remain truly peer to peer all the way to volumes comparable to Visa, that would be a huge win. Also, being in on that at the start would get one rich.

I hope you saw my proposed solution.

I also feel strong anonymity is very important, because I think the government may become oppressive as end-stage Rome. The only way I can see to obtain digital coin anonymously is through mining (not an exchange) using a mix-net or dc-net that is more anonymous than Tor, i.e. tradeoff high latency for better anonymity (become impervious to timing attacks). Mining in Bitcon is falling fast (as a % of existing coin supply) to be at 0 in 2033.

[digitalindustry]

So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial? 

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

I don't know,  possibly ?

[Lauda]

So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial? 

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

I don't know,  possibly ?

Maybe you're from a paralel dimension Earth?

[digitalindustry]

So that is why the USA tortured him in maximum security prison for 7 years while being held on a bogus contempt of court charge without a proper trial? 

Are you sure you live on planet earth?

I don't know,  possibly ?

Maybe you're from a paralel dimension Earth?

more likely something closer to a chronosynclastic infundibulated version of that . , if that were true.

[AnonyMint]

Hey you two (or three) trolling twerps who are cluttering this thread with nonsense and noise.

Ego is for little people and demonstrated by those who can't build, talk.  

I have put you two (actually three yet he stopped recently) both on ignore, thus the thread reads much more sanely and clearly (for those who put you two or three on ignore).

Frankly, if you two (or three) put yourselves on ignore, your sanity might return because you would be forced to actually comprehend the useful information, and develop some robust thinking skills.

[Lauda]

Maybe you're from a paralel dimension Earth?

more likely something closer to a chronosynclastic infundibulated version of that . , if that were true.

Well he seems to think he's smart and important 
I guess we have been striked with his ignore list.

[AnonyMint]

Martin Armstrong has not said that gold isn't money. He has said that a strict gold standard is never sustainable, and he explained why. Society must oscillate between gold and fiat money, because of at least two reasons:

1. Debt isn't possible on a strict gold standard (no fractional reserves)

2. Strict gold standard means savings is 100% more important than production and knowledge formation, because savers (who do nothing but sit on their gold) always get wealthier. You can't pay investors more, because the supply of gold doesn't increase as fast as the increased production value.

Point #2 above hasn't been explained clearly enough for most people to understand.

Martin explained this very abstractly by saying the supply of gold can't expand with the expansion of the economy. Goldbugs ignore this explanation, because they say the value of gold can increase accordingly.

What is missing is that when investors invest in a productive business, they expect to get a ROI which is greater than just sitting on their gold. So if via such investments, the economy grows at X% where X is greater than the expansion of the physical gold supply, then some of the investors can't be paid, i.e. the savers in gold take the gains from the investors in the form of price deflation.

Why can't otherwise smart people see that? I dunno. Cognitive dissonance? I mean I know one guy who claims he scored higher than me on the SAT (but not on the Math) and is a famous silver promoter, and for some reason he just can't seem to understand that (or at least hasn't indicated to me he got the point).

Some people point to the Byzantine empire (Eastern Rome) as an example of a sustainable gold standard. In every case where there was a gold standard, either it wasn't the only money (i.e. banks were creating gold receipts which were backed only by fractional reserves) and/or gold was being imported into the economy thus expanding the supply of gold faster than the 2% per annum expansion of global supply due to mining.

How can anyone make this any more clear? Whoever can't get this, should shut up, they don't have sufficient IQ to be commenting on the matter then.

P.S. Bitcoin is worse than gold, as the increase in supply stops entirely in 2033. Clearly a flawed design, for the reasons above, and also because mining of new coins is the only SURE way to anonymously obtain bit coins.

[AnonyMint]

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/08/05/confiscation-of-gold-possible-or-not/

About the above "Confiscation of gold", the key points to remember are:

1. They can't confiscate what you physically hide, but other than coins for barter (no need to assay, trusted), you won't be able to invest that wealth (easily and efficiently in large size) without paying the confiscation or taxes, because the powers that be control the avenues for investment. So all this BS from goldbugs about they can't confiscate what you bury in a hole, is only valid for the Madmax scenario, not for the scenario where they make a new money system after the crisis and you can't enter it without paying the confiscation or taxes. I warned of this years ago:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article20327.html (End Game - Gold Investors Destroyed)
http://www.financialsensearchive.com/fsu/editorials/moore/2010/0615.html (copy)
http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/no-money-exists-without-majority (No Money Exists Without The Majority)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=226033 (discussion)

2. They won't bother confiscating gold if there isn't that much wealth to attack (if the payoff is less than the effort and cost). So bear in mind, that a more anonymous Bitcoin alternative (coming soon), which they can not confiscate, will pull wealth away from gold. A possible reason the Bible speaks of a 666 mark on the forehead and hand (governments will need to physically track you to re-enable their power to tax you after I am done destroying that power), is because the governments are going to be destroyed by a truly anonymous Bitcoin alternative which they can not confiscate. Most people don't realize this is actually possible:

http://blog.jim.com/economics/bitcoin-as-a-speculative-bet.html/comment-page-1#comment-342148
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160612.msg2847982#msg2847982


3. Physical gold can't create a new economy. We can't go back to physical barter and have any where near the maximum divison-of-labor we have now (thus quality of life would plummet). Forget it. An alternative to Bitcoin which is is truly anonymous and thus can't be confiscated, could potentially render the USA empire fiscally impotent sending it away powerless with its tail between its legs.

[digitalindustry]

Ok Anony sorry for interrupting your well put together  depressed and semi schizophrenic predictions of our certain doom and gloom .

Just a leaving note old friend .

Take yourself less seriously .

Try to focus a little more on the self , and you may see opportunity out of adversity, such is the way us  humans work .

Oh also it's 2013 , I'm pretty certain everyone knows the score by now.

[AnonyMint]

you may see opportunity out of adversity, such is the way us  humans work .

Can't you read? I already did.

An alternative to Bitcoin which is is truly anonymous and thus can't be confiscated, could potentially render the USA empire fiscally impotent sending it away powerless with its tail between its legs.

Also:

http://blog.jim.com/culture/radish-explains-what-racism-means.html/comment-page-1#comment-346422

See also my article, No Money Exists Without the Majority. Since writing that, I have become more convinced that we can temporary defeat the majority with better anonymity and with a higher debasement rate for the digital coin, so that mining is more profitable. In the end though, society can require us to be 666 chipped (no religiosity is attached to this statement). So my article will remain correct in the longer-term.