Worldwar 3 and EMP bombs

[linuxer]

What will happen if worldwar happens and some countries use EMP bombs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

http://www.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb.htm

No internet, No phone, No BITCOIN

[lch]

Somehow, I think thats going to be least of our worries.

[Teka]

Somehow, I think thats going to be least of our worries.

The issue is that most of our infrastructure is computerized. There will no power and most important no communication. 

[lch]

Somehow, I think thats going to be least of our worries.

The issue is that most of our infrastructure is computerized. There will no power and most important no communication. 

You mean you guys haven't made a room size faraday cage and filled it with all kinds of important electronics?

lol 

[Schleicher]

I think a big solar flare is a bigger threat. The effects from that would be global and not restricted to one or two regions.
And it WILL happen sooner or later.

[Elwar]

As long as my debit card still works. Or I can go to an ATM and get my money out of the bank I will be fine.

[Elwar]

Somehow, I think thats going to be least of our worries.

The issue is that most of our infrastructure is computerized. There will no power and most important no communication. 

In one small part of the world.

Bitcoin is global.

[RodeoX]

Since we would all die in a nuclear war it is not really a concern. Cockroaches do not need bitcoin.

[linuxer]

Since we would all die in a nuclear war it is not really a concern. Cockroaches do not need bitcoin.

What if there will be no nuclear attack? only EMP..

[myrkul]

Since we would all die in a nuclear war it is not really a concern. Cockroaches do not need bitcoin.

What if there will be no nuclear attack? only EMP..

It would need to be literally world-wide to affect Bitcoin, and if the internet went down, bitcoin would be the last thing on anyone's mind (at least, in the areas affected).

[Biomech]

Alright, let's play with this a little bit. Just to show how absurd even CARING about currency is in that situation. Bitcoin is small cap. The major fiat exchanges would be momentarily wiped out as well.

But who cares?

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

The most common counter plan is a counterpunch. General launch on the infrastructure, military, and political targets of the launching nation. That means a devastating counterstrike with a large portion of everything the counterstriking country has. Land, air, and submarine based. And RIGHT FUCKING NOW, becuase in the best case scenario they have 14 minutes to respond before riding out the initial strike.

This is the basis of the Mutually Assured Destruction argument, and ALL current nuclear powers subscribe to it, with the possible exception of North Korea.

EMP is a transient effect. Sure, it's damaging, but not for very long. It can be recovered from. It's only real use would be if they were somehow confident that they could achieve a first strike ahead of the pre-programmed counterstrike. In 1956, that was a possibility. Now it's not. The robots would fire the missiles.

The only real variables in nuclear warfare are whether some madman starts it, and whether anyone is sane enough to stop it after the first wave.

Well, actually there is a third. Whether or not any life remains above ground after the exchange.

[linuxer]

Alright, let's play with this a little bit. Just to show how absurd even CARING about currency is in that situation. Bitcoin is small cap. The major fiat exchanges would be momentarily wiped out as well.

But who cares?

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

The most common counter plan is a counterpunch. General launch on the infrastructure, military, and political targets of the launching nation. That means a devastating counterstrike with a large portion of everything the counterstriking country has. Land, air, and submarine based. And RIGHT FUCKING NOW, becuase in the best case scenario they have 14 minutes to respond before riding out the initial strike.

This is the basis of the Mutually Assured Destruction argument, and ALL current nuclear powers subscribe to it, with the possible exception of North Korea.

EMP is a transient effect. Sure, it's damaging, but not for very long. It can be recovered from. It's only real use would be if they were somehow confident that they could achieve a first strike ahead of the pre-programmed counterstrike. In 1956, that was a possibility. Now it's not. The robots would fire the missiles.

The only real variables in nuclear warfare are whether some madman starts it, and whether anyone is sane enough to stop it after the first wave.

Well, actually there is a third. Whether or not any life remains above ground after the exchange.

This, this is the best reply, congrats man you have won a 100$ worth
lolipop, which you will never get from me. 

[MysteryMiner]

EMP will not destroy my local network. Bitcoin will continue to function. I will only need backup generator, maybe when war will break out I could build small hydro station on nearby river without any paperwork.

[b!z]

WWIII would result in the end of humanity for sure.

[ruletheworld]

WWIII would result in the end of humanity for sure.

How do you know it for sure?

[myrkul]

WWIII would result in the end of humanity for sure.

Probably not the end. We're a remarkably resilient species. But it woud definitely set us back a ways.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
   -- Albert Einstein

[bigdude]

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
   -- Albert Einstein

What an awesome quote!!

[Biomech]

WWIII would result in the end of humanity for sure.

Probably not the end. We're a remarkably resilient species. But it woud definitely set us back a ways.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
   -- Albert Einstein

One can never tell the age of forum members, so I'll just flat out state that I grew up believing the world was going to go up in a mushroom cloud before I was 18. I'm just barely old enough to remember those stupid "duck and cover" drills.

But strangely enough, both the Soviet Union and the United States managed to relax their Nuclear trigger fingers, and even stranger Israel managed to restrain themselves. By 1986, the world had cooled down quite a bit. Probably because my generation and the one just previous to it had studied this shit to death, and found that there is NO EXCUSE for a nuclear exchange. Only madmen build these weapons, and only madmen would pull the trigger. Initially they didn't understand the long term dangers. They don't have that excuse anymore. Unfortunately you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

EMP bombs are a proposal by the madmen. There is NO SUCH THING as a limited nuclear war. As I noted in my previous post, and as Myrkul has noted above via Einstein.

Reread my first response here. It's a pretty accurate overview of SAC/NORAD's STANDARD response to a nuclear first strike. And again, please note that the delivery system for a "pure" EMP bomb is a Fractional Orbit Bombarment System missile carrying several Multiple Entry Reentry Vehicles, each carrying a ten to fifteen kiloton nuclear bomb fused to explode just above the breatheable atmosphere. The EMP burst is a SIDE EFFECT of a nuclear chain reaction. Ya can't have the one without the other. The difference between an ELINT blackout attack and the destruction of a city is a few thousand feet, not the type of bomb.
Yes, I know they have refined them somewhat, but not that much.

The biggest point here remains that the early warning systems, on all nuclear armed sides, CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between an EMP attack and a full on first strike. Again, madmen's choices. If you don't strike back you commit suicide. If you do strike back, you commit suicide. Even the deep shelters and long term planning of civil defense agencies and individual preppers are no guaranty. Nuclear war offers only ghastly uncertainties and the prospect of a world devastated beyond repair.

One final point is that only nation states ever come up with such ghastly weapons. They are not content to eat your flesh and drink your blood, they want the ability to destroy all life.

Some day, some mad fuck is going to push the button. We NEED to get off planet colonies if the species is to both survive AND keep it's accumulated knowledge and wisdom. Frankly, after a nuclear exchange, in the unlikely event that you survive, clean water, food, and lead for rad shielding will probably be the main currencies of exchange for the two or three percent that survive.

[Spendulus]

WWIII would result in the end of humanity for sure.

Probably not the end. We're a remarkably resilient species. But it woud definitely set us back a ways.

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
   -- Albert Einstein

One can never tell the age of forum members, so I'll just flat out state that I grew up believing the world was going to go up in a mushroom cloud before I was 18. I'm just barely old enough to remember those stupid "duck and cover" drills.

But strangely enough, both the Soviet Union and the United States managed to relax their Nuclear trigger fingers, and even stranger Israel managed to restrain themselves. By 1986, the world had cooled down quite a bit. Probably because my generation and the one just previous to it had studied this shit to death, and found that there is NO EXCUSE for a nuclear exchange. Only madmen build these weapons, and only madmen would pull the trigger. Initially they didn't understand the long term dangers. They don't have that excuse anymore. Unfortunately you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

EMP bombs are a proposal by the madmen. There is NO SUCH THING as a limited nuclear war. As I noted in my previous post, and as Myrkul has noted above via Einstein.

Reread my first response here. It's a pretty accurate overview of SAC/NORAD's STANDARD response to a nuclear first strike. And again, please note that the delivery system for a "pure" EMP bomb is a Fractional Orbit Bombarment System missile carrying several Multiple Entry Reentry Vehicles, each carrying a ten to fifteen kiloton nuclear bomb fused to explode just above the breatheable atmosphere. The EMP burst is a SIDE EFFECT of a nuclear chain reaction. Ya can't have the one without the other. The difference between an ELINT blackout attack and the destruction of a city is a few thousand feet, not the type of bomb.
Yes, I know they have refined them somewhat, but not that much.

The biggest point here remains that the early warning systems, on all nuclear armed sides, CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE between an EMP attack and a full on first strike. Again, madmen's choices. If you don't strike back you commit suicide. If you do strike back, you commit suicide. Even the deep shelters and long term planning of civil defense agencies and individual preppers are no guaranty. Nuclear war offers only ghastly uncertainties and the prospect of a world devastated beyond repair.

One final point is that only nation states ever come up with such ghastly weapons. They are not content to eat your flesh and drink your blood, they want the ability to destroy all life.

Some day, some mad fuck is going to push the button. We NEED to get off planet colonies if the species is to both survive AND keep it's accumulated knowledge and wisdom. Frankly, after a nuclear exchange, in the unlikely event that you survive, clean water, food, and lead for rad shielding will probably be the main currencies of exchange for the two or three percent that survive.

Unfortunately, the type of launch system for an EMP is different than an ICBM.  An EMP can be placed at the right altitude say from a boat in the Gulf of Mexico using SCUD level rocket technology and NO other guidance system.

that puts a pretty big footprint on the ground out of commission as far as electronics and power is concerned, say 500 mile diameter.

I agree though that the Carrington event, the solar flare, is far more serious because it could affect the whole planet or a big part of it.

[myrkul]

It actually is possible to generate an EMP without a nuclear blast. As you point out, though, the delivery systems would be pretty similar, and a nuclear blast is, I think (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), the strongest way of generating an EMP currently available. Certainly the effect would be identical, to anyone not in direct line-of-sight of the event: A missile launch, and then a few seconds later, they lose contact with a large swathe of countryside.

Thus, if one is worrying about world-wide EMP, one is also probably worrying about world-wide nuclear war, and at that point, the inability to access your bitcoin wallets is the least of your problems.