Worldwar 3 and EMP bombs

[RodeoX]

Since we would all die in a nuclear war it is not really a concern. Cockroaches do not need bitcoin.

What if there will be no nuclear attack? only EMP..

the emp bombs are used primarily before a nuke attack to disable all the nuke alert / defense systems

Yeah, that. EMP is a "total war" measure.

[TomUnderSea]

I must point out that in the case of a launch of an EMP weapon from a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, there would be no immediate traceback to the perp

So, they can track missile launches on the other side of the planet, but not in their own back yard?

The key word here is boat. If a missile is launched from mainland North Korea, it'd be pretty obvious that the missile belongs to North Korea. But a boat in the Gulf of Mexico could belong to anyone. It could be North Korea. Or maybe China, or Russia, or literally any other country that owns both boats and missiles. That's why submarines are such a critical part of nuclear strategy: they can go almost anywhere in the world without being detected and then fire their missiles without anyone knowing which country was responsible.

Actually I would not be so quick to believe that a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, large enough to launch an EMP device able to have a significant effect would not be tracked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar



There is a reason why the drug smugglers are using these now:

[Cranky4u]

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

Not quiet right as an EMP bomb can be as small as a brief case for localised jobs or vehicle mounted for capital city deployments.

Sources - don't ask   

[TomUnderSea]

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

Not quiet right as an EMP bomb can be as small as a brief case for localised jobs or vehicle mounted for capital city deployments.

Sources - don't ask   

But those don't take down the internets.

[Cranky4u]

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

Not quiet right as an EMP bomb can be as small as a brief case for localised jobs or vehicle mounted for capital city deployments.

Sources - don't ask   

But those don't take down the internets.

However they do take down major exchanges and ISP server locations 

Deploy them along key data structure eschange points, such as major communication fibre optic or UL/DL trunk line interchanges and you smash 90%. The remaining 10% will struggle to achieve anything resembling the whole internet structure that stood previously...

[Spendulus]

I must point out that in the case of a launch of an EMP weapon from a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, there would be no immediate traceback to the perp

So, they can track missile launches on the other side of the planet, but not in their own back yard?

The key word here is boat. If a missile is launched from mainland North Korea, it'd be pretty obvious that the missile belongs to North Korea. But a boat in the Gulf of Mexico could belong to anyone. It could be North Korea. Or maybe China, or Russia, or literally any other country that owns both boats and missiles. That's why submarines are such a critical part of nuclear strategy: they can go almost anywhere in the world without being detected and then fire their missiles without anyone knowing which country was responsible.

Actually I would not be so quick to believe that a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, large enough to launch an EMP device able to have a significant effect would not be tracked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar



There is a reason why the drug smugglers are using these now:

I think you've made a plausible case there.

[b!z]

I must point out that in the case of a launch of an EMP weapon from a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, there would be no immediate traceback to the perp

So, they can track missile launches on the other side of the planet, but not in their own back yard?

The key word here is boat. If a missile is launched from mainland North Korea, it'd be pretty obvious that the missile belongs to North Korea. But a boat in the Gulf of Mexico could belong to anyone. It could be North Korea. Or maybe China, or Russia, or literally any other country that owns both boats and missiles. That's why submarines are such a critical part of nuclear strategy: they can go almost anywhere in the world without being detected and then fire their missiles without anyone knowing which country was responsible.

Actually I would not be so quick to believe that a boat in the Gulf of Mexico, large enough to launch an EMP device able to have a significant effect would not be tracked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-horizon_radar



There is a reason why the drug smugglers are using these now:

This is very true, I agree.

[Biomech]

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

Not quiet right as an EMP bomb can be as small as a brief case for localised jobs or vehicle mounted for capital city deployments.

Sources - don't ask   

true. However, this would only have a limited, local effect. The scope of the OP was, imao,much larger in scale as to have more than a momentary effect on bit coin or the internet.

[Cranky4u]

For these devices to work without widespread radiation poisoning and a humongous shockwave, they have to be airburst at rather extreme altitude. This will require a spread of either FOBS or ICBM missles. Since early warning satellites and radars cannot tell that the missile showing the profile of a nuclear launch is an EMP device (since it would be riding exactly the same vehicle as a MIRV capable ICBM or FOBS) The monitoring systems would go to DEFCON 1 or it's equivalent. That means nuclear war IS ON.

Not quiet right as an EMP bomb can be as small as a brief case for localised jobs or vehicle mounted for capital city deployments.

Sources - don't ask   

true. However, this would only have a limited, local effect. The scope of the OP was, imao,much larger in scale as to have more than a momentary effect on bit coin or the internet.

fair call

[TheGovernedSelf]

EMP uses an ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PULSE.

If you are familiar with magnetic fields, you'll know that they don't have the greatest range.
Making an EMP with a range of >10 miles is impossible using existing science and technology. Even a powerful home-made EMP would likely have a range of 100 yards or less.

Their most effective use would probably be disabling these from a range of 5-25 feet:

[Biomech]

EMP uses an ELECTRO-MAGNETIC PULSE.

If you are familiar with magnetic fields, you'll know that they don't have the greatest range.
Making an EMP with a range of >10 miles is impossible using existing science and technology. Even a powerful home-made EMP would likely have a range of 100 yards or less.

Their most effective use would probably be disabling these from a range of 5-25 feet:

uh...

If you are talking about using large power drain electromagnets, you are quite correct. But the EMP from a nuclear explsion at or above 5000 feet AGL covers hundreds of miles and is capable of destroying MOST active and unshielded electronics. Also can damage or destroy a great many inactive and unpowered devices. This is NOT new information. I was aware of this in the late seventies, and I am not in any way associated with the military.

Devices called "neutron bombs" do this and put out a great deal of lethal but short lived radiation, leaving buildings and non electronic infrastructure intact. These devices are known to exist, at least in three national nuclear inventories, and probably more than that. This is not a trivial weapon by any means.

[Foxpup]

Devices called "neutron bombs" do this and put out a great deal of lethal but short lived radiation, leaving buildings and non electronic infrastructure intact. These devices are known to exist, at least in three national nuclear inventories, and probably more than that. This is not a trivial weapon by any means.

You are misinformed about neutron bombs. Neutron bombs, as the name suggests, are designed to release most of their energy in the form of neutrons instead of gamma rays. Since it is the gamma rays that are responsible for the EMP, a neutron bomb produces a far less powerful EMP than a conventional thermonuclear weapon. Neutron bombs also do not leave buildings intact: all buildings within the lethal radiation range are likely to be completely destroyed or severely damaged by the blast anyway. The real purpose of neutron bombs is to kill those in armoured vehicles and hardened structures, who would otherwise survive the blast (assuming they're far enough away from ground zero to not be instantly vaporised, obviously).

[flagel8]

Somehow, I think thats going to be least of our worries.

I remember reading somewhere on a site for mechanical watch enthusiasts about how great it would be that THEIR watches would still be working after a nuclear blast! As opposed to those who were relying on their inferior Quartz watches. I'd laugh, but, well, you know...

[ktttn]

Since we would all die in a nuclear war it is not really a concern. Cockroaches do not need bitcoin.

Cockroaches will in fact need bitcoin once the're the dominant species on this planet. If they intend on facilitating trade between regions of roach-earth, that is.

On the real though- Everything that has ever been built was once built from scratch, and can be rebuilt, physically and programmatically better. Precautions have been taken. Inevitably, there exists hard drives within Faraday cages belonging to proponents of mutual aid. The next level of postnuclear humans (or cockroaches if that's your flavor) will always stand on the (albeit perhaps crumbled) shoulders of giants.
EDIT:From what I understand, the main purpose of ARPANET- the internet's great uncle- was to allow communications in the event of a nuclear disaster.

[elektibi75]

After reading this I feel like the SF catastrophe movies are not far from fiction

[Biomech]

After reading this I feel like the SF catastrophe movies are not far from fiction

That has always been the beauty and horror of sci-fi. Some of it is pure fantasy, but the really good stuff is rooted in science and the extrapolation thereof.

While I like Space Opera, my favorite authors have always been the "hard" writers like Robert Anson Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, Ben Bova, G. Harry Stein, C.M. Kornbluth, and others of that ilk.

Growing up in the seventies and eighties, I (and a great many of my generation) expected the world to end in a nuclear fireball long ago. By some miracle, it hasn't happened.

That being said, the actions taken by the sons of bitches who rule my nation are doing their damnedest to make it happen. Our only saving grace is that their power greed is matched in at least equal part by their stupidity. About the only good thing about a democratic republic is that the elected are mostly idiots. Powerful idiots, but idiots nonetheless.

What I fear above all is that at some point a SMART politician who is mad as a hatter gets the nuclear control codes. The modern Pol is a power hungry sob, but not too bright. They don't seem to understand that deliberately sowing hatred and provocation of every potential enemy has drastic and long lasting consequences. One who did, and could unite enough of the haters, would be the most dangerous thing that earth could face.

This, aside from all my romantic notions, is why I think that we, as a species, need to develop starships. Our survival as a race, Imao, depends on us getting a viable population far enough offworld that one madman with access to nuclear weapons can't pull the plug on us.

The technology is in our grasp. We've had the technical ability to build starships since I was born, other than the necessary computer power for long range navigation. That now exists on most everyone's desktop. At this point, all we lack is the will to do it. Nations are not going to, as it's not in their interest to have free colonies offworld. They might get notions of independence, after all.

But the corporations, whatever you think of them, do have the power if they had the will. I suspect that men such as Sir Richard Branson might have the will, and they certainly have the power.

My father's generation was the first to see a time when humanity had the power to destroy itself, and most life on the planet. That is the legacy we have, and which we must undo. Obviously, we can't put the genie back in the bottle. But we can go forward and find a way to live where these terrible weapons are no longer a threat to absolutely everything.

There is a term in sci-fi and some philosophy that applies. The Nuclear Decision Threshold. The point at which a species that has developed nuclear weapons finds a way past their awful power, or perishes. We have been on that threshold for 63 years. Not a long time, but the threat looms large. And while it is not on everyone's minds and lips as it was just two decades ago, the threat has not diminished. If anything, it has increased because America thinks they can win a nuclear exchange, and there are several new players.

Conventional wars are horrible, but they are nothing compared to a full scale nuclear exchange. Because of the time frames involved, the idea of a limited nuclear exchange is pure madness. If one country launches, the others will too. They have no choice as the system sits. "riding it out" is simply not an option. It's launch on detection, or lose. But there are no possible winners, so it's lose period. Mutually Assured Destruction. When the USSR and the USA were playing their games of brinkmanship, that was always on the minds of the leaders and the proles. Now, it's not so much, especially in the public eye. That, in my opinion, is a more dangerous state of affairs than the two "superpowers" eyeballing each other over gunsights.

[Spendulus]

.....
This, aside from all my romantic notions, is why I think that we, as a species, need to develop starships....

I'd more or less disagree, because it's somewhat likely we could colonize Mars.  Zubrin has developed this concept, see "Mars Direct" for the concepts.

Starships might come with advances in physics and energy production, but if we knew how to live in a can in space for a couple decades, there would be many options available here in this solar system.  But we don't know how to live in a can...

As for nuclear exchanges, the highest risk of those is terrorism and small countries, not the old concept of MADD.  That may actually be impossible today.

NOW TO THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

What, exactly, is your problem with decisions about nuclear war being made by the highly skilled and trained leaders of our country?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mUCLHzWiJo

[Biomech]

.....
This, aside from all my romantic notions, is why I think that we, as a species, need to develop starships....

I'd more or less disagree, because it's somewhat likely we could colonize Mars.  Zubrin has developed this concept, see "Mars Direct" for the concepts.

Starships might come with advances in physics and energy production, but if we knew how to live in a can in space for a couple decades, there would be many options available here in this solar system.  But we don't know how to live in a can...

As for nuclear exchanges, the highest risk of those is terrorism and small countries, not the old concept of MADD.  That may actually be impossible today.

NOW TO THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

What, exactly, is your problem with decisions about nuclear war being made by the highly skilled and trained leaders of our country?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mUCLHzWiJo

Yes, I'm quite familiar with Zubrin. I have The Case for Mars on my desk I think it's a good start. By starships,I don't mean FTL, though I don't believe it impossible. Something that would push at about .9 C would get us to the nearest stars, even though "on ship" culture would probably vary radically from the land bound due to time dilation.

I don't agree on terroirsm being the biggest risk. Well, not small scale terrorism anyway. Nukes are a terror weapon. But the big nuclear arsenals still exist, and they are still targeted on the various perceived enemies of each country that has them. The plans remain in place to destroy everything. I actually think the focus on guerilla warfare (what the modern state terms terrorism) detracts from that awareness, which in some ways heightens the danger.

I'm not on my own computer right now, so I can't watch the video till later. I'll get back to ya on that

[Anon136]

.....
This, aside from all my romantic notions, is why I think that we, as a species, need to develop starships....

I'd more or less disagree, because it's somewhat likely we could colonize Mars.  Zubrin has developed this concept, see "Mars Direct" for the concepts.

Starships might come with advances in physics and energy production, but if we knew how to live in a can in space for a couple decades, there would be many options available here in this solar system.  But we don't know how to live in a can...

As for nuclear exchanges, the highest risk of those is terrorism and small countries, not the old concept of MADD.  That may actually be impossible today.

NOW TO THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

What, exactly, is your problem with decisions about nuclear war being made by the highly skilled and trained leaders of our country?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mUCLHzWiJo

Yes, I'm quite familiar with Zubrin. I have The Case for Mars on my desk I think it's a good start. By starships,I don't mean FTL, though I don't believe it impossible. Something that would push at about .9 C would get us to the nearest stars, even though "on ship" culture would probably vary radically from the land bound due to time dilation.

I don't agree on terroirsm being the biggest risk. Well, not small scale terrorism anyway. Nukes are a terror weapon. But the big nuclear arsenals still exist, and they are still targeted on the various perceived enemies of each country that has them. The plans remain in place to destroy everything. I actually think the focus on guerilla warfare (what the modern state terms terrorism) detracts from that awareness, which in some ways heightens the danger.

I'm not on my own computer right now, so I can't watch the video till later. I'll get back to ya on that

faster than light is probably imposable but that doesn't rule out the potability of taking a shortcut

[jambola2]

" I do not know with what weapons World War Three will be fought with , but I know World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones"
[ Someone famous said this but I do not remember who ]