Vircurex may 2013 report, is this a joke Kumala ?

[thy]

See the quarterly share holder report on https://vircurex.com/welcome/investors

https://vircurex.com/Reports/2013-05.pdf

Is this some kind of bad joke in the quarterly repprt, Kumala.
""...unfortionately the service provider has then done and posted the credential in there helpdesk ticker, rather than the standard process of sending it to our email adress (witch has 2FA protection), also the security setup of allowing only our IP range to login to the management console was not working. It was an additional security feature the provider offered....."

Then later it's stated
"Consequensces  The loss of funds will be recovered out of the monthly dividends. Dividends will be used to purchase back the missing funds in the coming months. Depending on the trading volume development this is expected to take 9 to 12 months."

Then if one takes a look at the Vircurex contract at Cryptostocks
https://cryptostocks.com/securities/34#info
"Special conditions The security issuer will not be entitled to dividends for a period of 12 months after the listing. "

So from a fault from the hosting provider has done you decide to not demand compensation from the provider ?

Instead you decide it should come out of the dividend from your new investors, that bought 30% of Vircurex stocks at Cryptostocks those that own that 30% should acourding to you for the next 9 months pay for it in the form of no dividend, the same period for witch the majority owner 70% is not entitled to dividend...

Why don't you split the responsibillity according to the ownership , 30% the new shareholders will pay for and 70% the majority owner in case you can't get the funds back some other way and persua a process to get the lost funds back from the hosting company for there mistake and try to trace where the money has been stolen to and who's behind it.

Or at the very least take funds from the building of NAV value and still pay out 70% of the net profit to the shareholders first.

However you look at it,  this moths result if you include the stolen funds as a loss in the result(if you can't get it back) that dosen't mean next moths result will be a loss and therefore if that month is generating profit(witch it should do unless the breach of security will become a monthly event) shareholders should still have there dividend from next month and onwards.

[1714953606]

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[1714953606]

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[1714953606]

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[1714953606]

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[glendall]

^^^ that does seem pretty reasonable to me.

[murfshake]

So, according to them (with no proof whatsoever) a provider they pay for fucked up and just gave away the root password to some random dude, they stole ~$175k worth of your investors bitcoins, and you just say, 'fuck the investors', more or less.

Wow.  For all anyone knows this guy just straight up STOLE $175k.

[Deprived]

So, according to them (with no proof whatsoever) a provider they pay for fucked up and just gave away the root password to some random dude, they stole ~$175k worth of your investors bitcoins, and you just say, 'fuck the investors', more or less.

Wow.  For all anyone knows this guy just straight up STOLE $175k.

Don't think it was $175k of investors' (i.e. shareholders) funds that were stolen.  It was $175k of depositors'/users' (people who use the exchange) funds that were stolen.  That means he's now running with less cash than is in the accounts of the site's users.

Which risks a spiral of death - where some people withdraw (as they don't want to be the ones left with balances when cash run out) which then rapidly hits the point of withdrawals being blocked.  At which point revenue drops and confidence vanishes - meaning no chance to ever make the funds back.

Or he just stole the coins himself.  I'd assume that if he doesn't produce any evidence of it tbh.

EDIT: On reading the report more careful it appears the majority of stolen funds were (at least purportedly) covered by held assets - so they're only short by 100 BTC or so funds necessary to cover all deposits.

[Deprived]

The recovery from investors IS theft however.

"Operation costs / Revenue / Profit The security listings proceedings will cover all operational expenses for the period of 3 years, hence all revenues will be net profit and paid out as dividends during that period."

Profit is defined as revenue in the contract. Charitably it could be considered that this month's revenue (or at least that part before the 'theft') was stolen and so cannot be paid out.  But there's absolutely no basis on which to withhold any dividends in future months (other than the 30% which investors for whatever stupid reason decided to give back in the recent vote).

The contract explicitly says "all revenues will be net profit" - there's nothing at all unclear about that.  But I wouldn't hold out much hope of him actually following his contract given he changed it mid IPO to avoid having to refund all share sales.

[burnside]

Hmmm, more like 210k USD if you count the 20k LTC.

That hurts.  

Edit: it was late.  it's actually quite a bit higher than that. 

[smoothie]

Wasn't it just a few months ago that Vircurex went "public" allowing investors to buy shares in their stock?

They get "hacked" and money goes missing...hmm

Note:
This listing will only become effective if at least 10,000 shares are sold. If the 10,000 shares are not sold by 28th February 2013 then all shares will be purchased back at the face value of 0.25 BTC per share and this contract will be null and void.

Overview
Vircurex is a privately owned trading platform for virtual currencies, it supports buying and selling of Bitcoins and many of its derivatives. The platform offers:
 - trading (buying/selling)
 - underwriting options
 - coupons
 - full trading API

Virtual currencies can be purchased using Euro or USD. Additional currencies are planned.

Objectives of the listing
To facilitate the further development of the platform, ensure ongoing operation as well as constantly enhance the functionality we decided to raise capital by selling 30% of our equity.

Some plans - but not limited to - are:
 - incorporation of Vircurex,
 - integrating other payment processors
 - advertisement campaigns
 - infrastructure upgrades

The Listing
A total of 45,000 shares at a face value of 0.25BTC each will be issued. 30% of these will be made publicly available.
If all shares are sold, 3,375 BTC will be divided into
   1,500 BTC onetime payment to license the platform and transfer the ownership of the complete infrastructure from its current owner
        300 BTC for advertisement costs over the next 3 years
   1,575 BTC to cover all operational costs over the next 3 years

Investment / Assets / Licenses
The listed security (and subsequently the legally incorporated entity) will
- own the source code, its customer base as well as wallet balances
- own the domain name

Operation costs / Revenue / Profit
Current monthly revenue from trading activities as well as advertisements is ~11 BTC.
The security listings proceedings will cover all operational expenses for the period of 3 years, hence all revenues will be net profit and paid out as dividends during that period.

Dividend
The monthly net profit will be paid out as dividend, typically in the first week of the month. All issued shares are entitled to the dividend payment.

Currency Exchange Risks
All expenses are paid in USD, thus to limit the possible risk of currency fluctuations, all proceedings from the listing will be converted to USD immediately. The funds will be held in a bank account and will not be used for anything other than paying the operational costs of the platform.

Share Buyback
The security issuer has the right to buy back the shares at 25% above the 30 day average trading price.

Special conditions
The security issuer will not be entitled to dividends for a period of 12 months after the listing.

Forward Looking Statement
Next 12 Months
Assuming a current 11 BTC monthly revenue and a quarter on quarter growth rate of 10% then the security will offer a 4% to 5% dividend yield. We believe a 10% growth quarter on quarter is a conservative number, in addition, most operational costs are fixed costs, hence any further growth will reflect in an over proportional increase of the dividend yield.

After 3 years
The trading platform will have to generate sufficient revenue to for it to continue its operation beyond 3 years. With the average monthly operations costs of 50BTC and the current trading fee of 0.5%, the exchange will require a daily trading volume of ~170BTC to break even.

Communication and Publications
All important announcements will be made on
 - the exchange that Vircurex will be listed on
 - bitcointalk.org

The list is subject to change depending on the development of the various forums.

Risks
You must consider this investment a high risk investment with a high probability that the expected returns will not materialize or even a total loss if the investment. Operating a virtual currency trading platform incurs the risks of:
- double spend attacks on weak virtual currencies
- security breaches (e.g. 0 Day vulnerabilities)
- legal actions by governments against our service offering
- availability of key personnel to operate the platform
- continuation of the virtual currency networks (blockchains)

Each potential investor need to consult with their financial advisor as to whether or not this investment is suitable for their specific risk profile.

Link to the listing on Cryptostocks.com:  https://cryptostocks.com/securities/34

[smoothie]

At today's prices the total losses amount to ~$293,000.00.

Wow just wow.

[Justin00]

will this be the standard 93 page thread were people talk about how unhappy they are, possibly register a domain about the person who stole the money and end up doing squat ?

Can a mod just turn page 2 into 93 to speed up the process ?

=)

[thy]

When one looks a bit closer at the numbers in the may 2013 report some numbers seems a bit strange, under financials for example:

                                         Feb              Mars                April                     May
Number of shares:                   -             28700              28700                 28700
[Free Float Shares                    -              8612                8612                   8612
Revenue:                               -             125.63             252.44                130.65
Paid Dividend:                         -             125.63             252.44                        0
Cost of operations:                 -                520 $            1541 $              730,30 $
Book Value:                    2149.77 BTC     1937,99 BTC      1485,70 BTC             -102.33 BTC
NAV:                                  0,749 BTC      0.0675 BTC         0.0518BTC             -0.0036 BTC


Book value from Feb 2013 is clearly the exact value of (8612*0,25BTC)*0,9985(0,15% fee at cryptostocks)= 2149.7705BTC
Was all 8612 stocks sold before the end of Feb 2013 ?
Why no shares listed in Feb numbers ?

Acording to the contract,
"Currency Exchange Risks All expenses are paid in USD, thus to limit the possible risk of currency fluctuations, all proceedings from the listing will be converted to USD immediately. The funds will be held in a bank account and will not be used for anything other than paying the operational costs of the platform."
 the BTC brought in from the IPO was going to be deposited at a bank account to garante to cover the cost of operations(in case BTC price would go down during the 3 year period i guess), when was this done(28 Feb ?) and what conversion price $/BTC was there when the funds were converted to $ and in the book value for Mars-May what BTC/$ price is used for calculating the Book Value for the funds in the bank account and whats the amount on the bank account for each of those month.
Basically when you mix BTC and $ in your financial repport you have to have the actual amount in $ in the bank account and/or what BTC/$ rate you used for the calculations for it to be clear.

Also NAV value for Feb 2013, no stocks still it seems to be calculated at 2870 stock, a calculation error and a typo at number of shares or Feb 2013 ?

If BTC was converted to USD at the 28 Feb 2013 at the avg price that day 32,69$, then how on earth can the book values for Mars(31/3 92,7$/BTC) April(30/4 139,84$/BTC) and maj(31/5 128,15$/BTC) be correct then ?

It looks to me that the book values for mars should be more like 752,49 BTC for Mars, 487,81BTC for April and 526,61BTC for May

Mars
2149.77*32,69=70275,98   70275,98-520=69755,98   69755,98/92,7=752,49BTC
April
69755,98-1541=68214,98  68214,98/139,84=487,81BTC
May
68214,98-730,30=67484,68  67484,68/128,15=526,61BTC

if the funds was converted to USD directly as stated in the contract.
and the may value of 526,61BTC is ofc without the loss of 1454BTC
So if you include the btc that you are missing from the loss it's more like -927,39 BTC !!! (that should be reported in the book value for may) with only the $(in bank account) and BTC(loss in security breach) part taken into account, it should be even worse if you add the fact that you stated about 23 400 LTC and 225 263 TRC was lost to that is mentioned in the report to.

Should we interpret this fact as that the funds from the IPO was never converted to USD as said in the contract or as that Vircurex is lying in there May 2013 report about how bad the situation is ?

So Vircurex/Kumala, would you care to tell us if Vircurex in reallity is missing way more than the 102,33 btc(that is stated in the book value) and rather the equivalent of way over 1000 btc instead ?

[radiumsoup]

I think your table just blue itself.

[thy]

There is some bug in your voting system at cyrptostocks Kumala, JDBIF has a vote that closed on 31 may and the result is not shown yet.

[thy]

Now the 2 votings in Vircurex is closed to but there is no result from that vote either when will you fix the bugs in the voting system on your cryptostock site ?

[EskimoBob]

What do they mean by "Book Value" and how is it calculated?

[MPOE-PR]

Wasn't it just a few months ago that Vircurex went "public" allowing investors to buy shares in their stock?

Yes, it was. And at the same time somebody said a few things about how nonsensical that all was.

Those who heeded said somebody's warning are okay. Those who thought themselves smarter have been duly fined.

[thy]

In the february value they have calculated "Book Value" as (8612*0,25BTC(introduction price of the stocks))*0,9985(0,15% fee at cryptostocks)= 2149.7705BTC. so it looks like it's only the assets (the BTC they got in from listing the company that should have been converted to fiat immediately acourding to the contract) on the bank account that is included in it. Surely they have to include the value of the coins they are missing in the value from may and onwards to.
If the site woulden't have lost those coins, what they would build up in reserves from the 30% they would not pay out in dividend ("to raise NAV value") would be included there i guess.
There's really no explanation from Vircurex to how they calculate the "book value" or the NAV so people can only guess there.

What happened to the monthly report they said before that they would publish on there Vircurex site, i could not find any on there site for Mars and April, diden't they publish any for those months or did they remove them ?
Now they changed it to quarterly ones instead, so i guess it means no info to the shareholders for 3 months, there gonna keep them in the dark on how it goes, that's real bad of Vircurex.

[EskimoBob]

By definition of book value, if Vircurex was shut down at the end of May, and everything got liquidated, shareholders will be left with -102.33 BTC.
Is it possible, they have no idea how book value is actually calculated and have pulled some arbitrary numbers out of their arse?
Not surprised because this looks like a common practice in the funny land of btc finances. One delusional dipshit likes to call it "the standard", btw.

[DeathAndTaxes]

It seems strange that Bitcoin service operators are STILL using VPS.  We have been running bare metal, with a "known good copy" of OS installed remotely using IPMI remote media capabilities.  Nobody at our hosting provider either knows any login credentials or has the ability to reset them.  Whole disk encryption ensures that even physical theft of disk would not lead to data loss.   The funny thing is that even with that I was too paranoid to use a hot wallet for refunds so they required manual processing.

[Peter Lambert]

It seems strange that Bitcoin service operators are STILL using VPS.  We have been running bare metal, with a "known good copy" of OS installed remotely using IPMI remote media capabilities.  Nobody at our hosting provider either knows any login credentials or has the ability to reset them.  Whole disk encryption ensures that even physical theft of disk would not lead to data loss.   The funny thing is that even with that I was too paranoid to use a hot wallet for refunds so they required manual processing.

Sounds like you know what you are doing, unlike so many in the bitcoin world.

[Sukrim]

Yes, also it is strange that people use hot wallets on servers - using BIP32 addresses it is easy to run a hot wallet at home on a mobile internet line for example. Good luck in finding that IP even. Also you could just run TOR at home too to hide your hot wallet IP even further.

Anyways - it's sad to see that people prototype stuff quickly, gain traction and then suddenly realize not by their own but by getting hacked that they screwed up. Then, because others put their trust in them, they just can walk away unharmed and disappear. People who warn about that do either so in a way that is usually insultive or at least perceived as a "typical naysayer" that just weakens the entrepreneurial spirit... This is still the internet and you have to expect that there are hundreds or thousands of people out there that are smarter and better than you in any and every aspect - tread carefully!