[BitCentury] Metabank 120Gh 65nm Pre-Order Proxy [CLOSED]

[OrphanedGland]

Here is a video of the BitFury ASIC running:
https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action

[jspielberg]

Nice...

Shouldn't your subject line be modified to say 55nm?

[Rora]

When are they opening orders for their products?

[dani]

When are they opening orders for their products?

I think you missed it already. Pre-orders were a few weeks ago, I think they were sold out a few days after.

[digitalmagus]

Nice...Shouldn't your subject line be modified to say 55nm?

Yes and no. I once asked Bitfury the very same question. Here's his paraphrased response:

The technology is a 65nm node, but it is optically scaled down by 10% each side to 55nm. The chip is drawn in GDS as 4.2x4.2 mm, but actual die is 3.78x3.78 mm, that's what causes confusion between 55nm and 65nm.

GDS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDSII

[digitalmagus]

When are they opening orders for their products?

I think you missed it already. Pre-orders were a few weeks ago, I think they were sold out a few days after.

Correct. Sorry we recently stopped accepting wait list requests and changed the thread subject back to what it was originally "Metabank pre-oders ", we should probably change it to something more relevant to where we are at now to minimize confusion. We are not taking any more Metabank pre-orders at this time, as Metabank has not announced any more units for sale.  

As for the status of our previous Metabank orders, as has already been stated, Metabank has said they have not experienced any delays so far, but a more specific target delivery date has not been provided, they are still touting: Aug-Oct 2013.  

To provide a bit more clarity, once asic chips are in hand (and we know they have had them for about a month now at least, certainly before us), it can take several weeks to a couple of months to have a PCB designed from scratch. This depends of course on schematic and layout engineer experience, on complexity of the board, thermals/voltage/performance targets/error rates, amongst many other things. Then after design is finished, ideally access to PCB printing manufacturer is immediately available and depending on how many layers the PCB will have, whether it is double sided or not, what type of alloys are required, size of PCB and especially how many units need to be produced, this impacts PCB manufacturing time, but generally speaking it can be as little as 3-5 days upwards of a couple of weeks. Next comes the assembly process where ASICs and dozens of other components are put on the PCB boards. This is typically a 3-10 day process depending on similar factors - volume of boards needing assembly and inventory availability to all the dozens of components required to be put on the board are critical. If assembly company is missing 1 component it can delay things for a week or two easily. Lastly comes the external metal case design & milling and volume production which itself can also take a few weeks, although in theory it can be done in parallel to other processes, but can only be assembled after a PCB has been fully completed (PCB printing+PCB assembly). All in all, assuming Metabank had test alpha chips in mid June, August would be very ambitious date but not impossible, Sept should be realistic, and October should allow them some extra time in case at least 1 flaw was found and re-design had to take place which means going back to step 1 but only a couple of weeks to fix a design flaw instead of upwards of 2 months of starting from scratch.  In short, it is a relatively complex process, involving many many steps, requiring a wide range of skills sets and nearly always involving several 3rd parties who don't always meet their initial stated timelines - as has been evidenced by just about every single company out there trying to develop and sell ASIC mining gear.

While the above is a general idea of how things progress, actual timelines regarding where Metabank is at are entirely speculative at this point as  Metabank has not been very forward with where exactly they are.

On the news front, we are working on some really exciting stuff in the background that we will hopefully be able to announce in a few short weeks, but we can't really disclose any specifics right now (don't you just love cliff hangers?).

Cheers!
Luis

[Kushedout]

I call dibs if its a miner based on bitfury chips at reasonable price. 

[Foofighter]

thanks for the news, really looking forward to you announcement!

[digitalmagus]

Hello everyone,

We called Metabank again today, and had a long list of questions but didn't have much luck with the person answering the phone as they couldn't answer the vast majority of them, but we did manage to get *some* useful information.

Q1: At which stage of development is the Metabank mining equipment? Has the PCB design been completed? Are you testing final PCB yet? What can you share?

A1: I believe the PCB design is finished and sent off to various (PCB) factories, but not sure if agreement with one of them is finalized.

NOTE: If we look at Bitfury's recent post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=254996.msg2717867#msg2717867, we see a brand new design for a Bitfury PCB. I have confirmation from a 3rd source that this is indeed MetaBank's PCB. I was told it is 8 layers. Below is a picture of it.  Given Metabank sold 120GH units, we can assume they will hopefully be targeting 2.5GH/chip as there are 48 chips on the board (2.5x48=120). We believe 2.5GH should be do-able so long as proper cooling is provided. Also, another guy in a forum post elsewhere here managed to achieve 3.4GH/s, but only with a huge heat sink connected to the chip.

Given each chip is 7mm x 7mm, if you slap a ruler to your computer monitor (as I did ), then you can see this image appears to be to scale. With this, we can easily measure the board dimensions being aprox: (23cm tall x 32.5 cm wide) or ( 9.1" x 12.8" )




So, assuming the design is finished, and assuming there are no design flaws, and assuming the PCB manufacturing process as well as the assembly process proceeds without flaws, and they have already picked out their external box CNC milling etc, etc. Also typically, you first print & assemble a prototype board, then test it extensively, if all goes well, you give the order to mass produce. So it does seem indeed that an end of August delivery date *may* be possible under best case scenario; however, when there are complex boards involved, it is not uncommon to experience delays for one reason or another, so I don't want to get everyone's hopes up, but it does appear at least to be within the realm of possibility. When we asked them directly, this is what we got:


Q2: Can you give us any more precise date on when the boards will be ready for customers?

A2: It is still too early to say the exact date, as there are many steps left, so we can still only say Aug-Oct; however, maybe if you call towards end of this month we might have a better idea.


That's about all we got out of them, all our other questions they couldn't answer, but suggested we write them via email. We are going to do that in Russian (real Russian, not google's comedic transliterate). As soon as we get a reply, I will post answers - that said, we have written them a few times before, and maybe 1/3 times we get a response.  Questions are mostly of technical nature, so you guys can prepare and know what to expect. Here's some of the questions we had prepared:

1.Will there be a power supply capable of 110/220v?
2. Will there be an external case?
3. What is the targeted Watt power draw of the entire unit?
4. Can you guys start providing status updates on your website so everyone doesnt have to call you?
5. Will there be a box provided for the product that can be shipped internationally?
6. Will your device be CE, UL and RoHS certified?
7. Which software will come with your board? (i.e. cgminer?), if not, will it have an English interface?
8. Which communication method(s) will the board have:  Wifi, USB or Ethernet ?

Lastly, if you guys have any other specific questions you want to ask, maybe list them here, and we can try to ask them for the next time we call them / email them.

Cheers!
Luis

[fpgaminer]

Thank you for the update, digitalmagus!

I'm holding out hope that they ship two of those boards per unit and underclock them to 1.25GH/chip, like the cscape design, for future overclocking

[Foofighter]

n1 update, thank you luis.

Hope that they answer the other questions too.

regards

[digitalmagus]

Ladies and gentlemen,

We've just launched pre-orders for our brand new product... the LittleFury! The world's fastest usb powered bitcoin miner :-)

I'd like to keep this thread reserved for Metabank related orders, so for more details, please visit:
1) Our website: https://bitcentury.io  (watch the latest video in the blog and also visit the store)
2) Our bitcointalk thread related to the LittleFury: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258926.0

I'll also be sending out emails shortly to everyone with a brief update related to this
Cheers,
Luis

[bearsworth]

Ladies and gentlemen,

We've just launched pre-orders for our brand new product... the LittleFury! The world's fastest usb powered bitcoin miner :-)

I'd like to keep this thread reserved for Metabank related orders, so for more details, please visit:
1) Our website: https://bitcentury.io  (watch the latest video in the blog and also visit the store)
2) Our bitcointalk thread related to the LittleFury: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258926.0

I'll also be sending out emails shortly to everyone with a brief update related to this
Cheers,
Luis

Not to be a spoil sport, but the pricing is high if you plan to deliver in october. this is a rough estimate and likely a bit undershooting even, but you still won't even profit if you use this tool http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

[dwdoc]

100TH now mining with bitfury device.  Shouldn't Metabank be on the same schedule?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2811496#msg2811496

[TheSwede75]

100TH now mining with bitfury device.  Shouldn't Metabank be on the same schedule?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2811496#msg2811496

100TH is the 1st priority customer that actually was involved in developing the reference design. Metabank could still take a little longer.

[stripykitteh]

100TH now mining with bitfury device.  Shouldn't Metabank be on the same schedule?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2811496#msg2811496

100TH is the 1st priority customer that actually was involved in developing the reference design. Metabank could still take a little longer.

Yeah, my impression was that Metabank is the first truly 'external' customer to Bitfury/Tytus, though they do seem to be close (hard to judge if you don't speak Russian ).

It does seem encouraging that 100TH have got some kit online, only a little behind schedule (weeks, not months).

[dwdoc]

From Metabank:

Original e-mail:
Здpaвcтвyйтe,
B пoнeдeльник 29 июля мы дoлжны пoлyчить чипы в Mocквe, пocлe чeгo зaпycкaeм cpoчнoe пpoизвoдcтвo.
Ceйчac вaм нyжнo пpинять peшeниe, coглacны ли вы иcпoльзoвaть вaши биткoины для pacчeтoв c пocтaвщикaми. Пocлe этoгo  вoзвpaт бyдeт yжe нeвoзмoжeн.
Пo пpeдвapитeльнoй инфopмaции cyммapнaя мoщнocть ceти oceнью мoжeт дocтичь cвышe 1 пeтaxэшa.
Ha дaнный мoмeнт мы имeeм 4 вapиaнтa плaты и cпиcки кoмплeктyющиx, нeкoтopыe из кoтopыx дocтyпны тoлькo пoд зaкaз в нeoбxoдимыx нaм кoличecтвax.
Плaн пpoизвoдcтвa  ~ 2 нeдeли c мoмeнтa пocтaвки кoмплeктyющиx.
Ecли вы гoтoвы зaбpaть чипы, этo мoжнo cдeлaть нaчинaя co втopникa.
Ecли вы нe coглacны c этим ycлoвиями, вы мoжeтe cдeлaть вoзвpaт пpямo ceйчac бeз зaдepжeк.
Пocтaвкa нe cpoчным мeтoдoм вoзмoжнa нe paнee oктябpя.

Пpocьбa дaть oтвeт в тeчeниe 4-x днeй.

Translation:
Hello
On Monday, July 29, we have to get the chips in Moscow, and then run the urgent production.
Now you need to decide if you agree to use your Bitcoins for payment to suppliers. After that refund will be no longer possible.
According to preliminary information, the total power of the network in the autumn could reach over 1 petahash.
At the moment we have 4 different boards and lists of components, some of which are only available to order in the quantities we need.
The production plan ~ 2 weeks from the date of delivery of components.
If you are ready to pick up the chips, you can do starting Tuesday.
If you do not agree with these terms, you can now make a return without delay.
Delivery is not urgent method is possible not earlier than October.
Please give a reply within 4 days.

[jspielberg]

From Metabank:
....
Delivery is not urgent method is possible not earlier than October.
....

So, I know it is a bad translation... but does this mean that October is out.

[stripykitteh]

From Metabank:

Original e-mail:
Здpaвcтвyйтe,
B пoнeдeльник 29 июля мы дoлжны пoлyчить чипы в Mocквe, пocлe чeгo зaпycкaeм cpoчнoe пpoизвoдcтвo.
Ceйчac вaм нyжнo пpинять peшeниe, coглacны ли вы иcпoльзoвaть вaши биткoины для pacчeтoв c пocтaвщикaми. Пocлe этoгo  вoзвpaт бyдeт yжe нeвoзмoжeн.
Пo пpeдвapитeльнoй инфopмaции cyммapнaя мoщнocть ceти oceнью мoжeт дocтичь cвышe 1 пeтaxэшa.
Ha дaнный мoмeнт мы имeeм 4 вapиaнтa плaты и cпиcки кoмплeктyющиx, нeкoтopыe из кoтopыx дocтyпны тoлькo пoд зaкaз в нeoбxoдимыx нaм кoличecтвax.
Плaн пpoизвoдcтвa  ~ 2 нeдeли c мoмeнтa пocтaвки кoмплeктyющиx.
Ecли вы гoтoвы зaбpaть чипы, этo мoжнo cдeлaть нaчинaя co втopникa.
Ecли вы нe coглacны c этим ycлoвиями, вы мoжeтe cдeлaть вoзвpaт пpямo ceйчac бeз зaдepжeк.
Пocтaвкa нe cpoчным мeтoдoм вoзмoжнa нe paнee oктябpя.

Пpocьбa дaть oтвeт в тeчeниe 4-x днeй.

Translation:
Hello
On Monday, July 29, we have to get the chips in Moscow, and then run the urgent production.
Now you need to decide if you agree to use your Bitcoins for payment to suppliers. After that refund will be no longer possible.
According to preliminary information, the total power of the network in the autumn could reach over 1 petahash.
At the moment we have 4 different boards and lists of components, some of which are only available to order in the quantities we need.
The production plan ~ 2 weeks from the date of delivery of components.
If you are ready to pick up the chips, you can do starting Tuesday.
If you do not agree with these terms, you can now make a return without delay.
Delivery is not urgent method is possible not earlier than October.
Please give a reply within 4 days.

It seems a little contradictory (I'm sure it isn't, just Google translate is not perfect).

It may in fact be talking about 2 different things. Can someone who speaks Russian provide a better translation or even better, more context?

[digitalmagus]

Hi guys,
Glad to see you are all on the ball. Yes that google translate is pretty confusing. I specifically got one of my Russian contacts to translate that second to last line, as I was confused myself.

Google's version: "Delivery is not urgent method is possible not earlier than October."
The real human translation: "Non-urgent delivery methods (i.e. ground courier) will not be possible before October"

So, aside from onsite pickup, which is likely what we'll be doing, it sounds like they will be offering direct non-priority courier services, but not until October - and if anything they've said in the past is any indication, it probably would be only within Russia. It's now approaching the end of the month, and we're looking to make another call to clarify this as well as any other details. As soon as we complete the call and get more info, we'll be sure to post it here. At the top of the list of course is estimated delivery, which their post wasn't that clear about.

Cheers,
Luis