I got SCAMMED by bitbox.mx!!!

[extracrunchy]

So, when Dwolla/MtGox stopped working, I started searching for alternatives, and came across this: BitBox.mx

Heres how they scammed me:

- May 28: I created an account and wired them ($499). On the website they promise the money is credited within (2) business days, so I tacked on extra fees from my bank and sent my payment express.
- May 30: BitBox receives the funds.
- May 31: I receive an email from them asking to "verify" my account by sending in my passport/bank statement/etc.
- Jun 3: Still no sign of funds, I refuse to send any other information and demand my money back.
- Jun 5: BitBox refuses to refund my OWN money or credit it against MY account, until I send them more of my personal information
- Jun 5: I ask for their phone number and physical address so I can file appropriate cases.
- Jun 6: I get an email with no mention of any physical address, and the following shady email:

from: Jordan Birnholtz <jordan@bitbox.mx>
Howdy, Richard.

Whenever an MSB moves money, it takes certain precautions based on its risk profile. This process is called due diligence. We are no exception.

In order for me to transmit money to you, I have to perform this task. Because you were unwilling to verify your identity by sending me documents, a requirement explicit in our terms of use, I've sought to contact you by telephone. This was part of the process of due diligence.

You are still welcome to call me. But if you are unwilling to send documentation of your identity, violating the terms of use to which you agreed, and unwilling to speak with me so I can begin that process by other means, violating these sames terms of use, I am not prepared to "refund" your money.

Let me be clear– we have no interest in simply holding on to your money for the sport of it. We're also not trying to bilk or steal from you. We're simply complying with our legally-required policies. So if you are unwilling to comply with the terms of use, it is my recommendation that you reverse the transfer your self.

I also suggest you call me at 248 763 9749. I await your call and apologize for this inconvenience.

Thank you,
Jordan.

So, my attorney has instructed me not to talk to them on the phone, and this Jordan guy flatly refused to REFUND my own money back to my bank account. The scammers clearly know there is no way to "reverse" a bank transfer from my own account.

I'm probably out of $500, but I'll make sure these guys can't scam anyone else. Its such people who bring instability to the bitcoin eco-system.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[greyhawk]

Anyway suggestions?

Yes. Read the ToS you agree to before you agree to it.


https://bitbox.mx/terms-of-use

In order to ensure compliance with any laws that may be applicable or other purposes, BitBox reserves the right to restrict or freeze any Funds at any time by way of delaying any payments, restricting account login access, or any other means it deems to be appropriate. Such situations that may warrant such an action include but are not limited to:

suspicious or irregular account activity
suspicion of an attempt to breach BitBox's computer systems
sending large amounts of Funds to BitBox without first receiving authorization or permission to do so
any other breach of these Terms
In addition to restricting or freezing any Funds, BitBox also reserves the right to request personal identification at any time in the form mandated by BitBox, even if the user was not previously required to do so to conduct normal activities.

[extracrunchy]

Yes. Read the ToS you agree to before you agree to it.

I don't agree with the ToS. They can close my account for that, but they can't keep my money indefinitely (nor for any amount of time - calculating interest rates soon!)

[greyhawk]

I don't agree with the ToS.

You agreed at the moment you sent money to their service. This is how Terms of Service work.

[extracrunchy]

I understand... now, whats the best way to get my money back?

Going through an attorney is going to cost me time/money... but if I do get compensated, it'll be worth it to get these scammers what they deserve!!

[aa]

.

[freewil]

from: Jordan Birnholtz <jordan@bitbox.mx>
Howdy, Richard.

Whenever an MSB moves money, it takes certain precautions based on its risk profile. This process is called due diligence. We are no exception.

In order for me to transmit money to you, I have to perform this task. Because you were unwilling to verify your identity by sending me documents, a requirement explicit in our terms of use, I've sought to contact you by telephone. This was part of the process of due diligence.

You are still welcome to call me. But if you are unwilling to send documentation of your identity, violating the terms of use to which you agreed, and unwilling to speak with me so I can begin that process by other means, violating these sames terms of use, I am not prepared to "refund" your money.

Let me be clear– we have no interest in simply holding on to your money for the sport of it. We're also not trying to bilk or steal from you. We're simply complying with our legally-required policies. So if you are unwilling to comply with the terms of use, it is my recommendation that you reverse the transfer your self.

I also suggest you call me at 248 763 9749. I await your call and apologize for this inconvenience.

Thank you,
Jordan.

As most of the bitcoin community knows by now, FinCEN has been pretty clear in defining the obligations of a virtual currency exchange, which BitBox falls under the definition of. Those obligations are reflected partly in our Terms of Use (which you must agree to in order to create an account). Part of our obligation is to do our own due diligence in preventing fraud, money laundering, and other illicit activity. We also do this in preventing fraud from being committed against ourselves.

We noticed something off about this transaction, which prompted us to take further action to verify your account and that is why we requested you to send in your verification documents, which you have plainly refused to do. We also have received an ACH deposit which we do not normally accept (rather than a wire transfer), which is capable of being reversed.

We are eager to help you resolve this problem, so please give us a call.

[extracrunchy]

Dear Sean,

Please explain the following email then:

from: Jordan Birnholtz <jordan@bitbox.mx>
Howdy, Richard.

My name's Jordan and I'm here to help you settle this matter.

Part of our responsibility as a money service business is to verify the identities of our users on a risk-oriented basis. This is why we request documentation when we do. We do note this in our terms of service, and again on our account verification page.

We will proceed tomorrow with the restitution process. Thanks for your patience. If you'd like to contact me by phone, write back– I'll send you a phone number in the morning.

Best,
Jordan.

You guys clearly saw the chance of scamming $500 and you went for it. As I said, I will make sure I get my money back from you or at least make sure the whole community knows how you guys do business.

On a side note, you ToS states that BitBox can at any time cease to "exist". This seems like a very standard fraud scheme. Once you determine you guys have enough of peoples funds, you can simply disappear. According to your ToS that would be legal, but I'm sure the US legal system will disagree....

[Kinnardian]

1) We found the transaction to be suspicious through our own internal due diligence
2) We reached out to you to give you a chance to verify your identity via email or talk to us on the phone
3) You refused to verify your identity or even talk to us on the phone about the situation
5) You subsequently vandalized our AngelList page.

You are fully capable of requesting that your bank reverse the ACH transaction(http://banking.about.com/od/howtobank/a/ach-payment-fixes.htm). We will not initiate a new transaction because that puts us, and thereby all of our users, at risk of being scammed.
To be specific if we initiate an ACH transfer to you to refund the money you deposited, you can subsequently reverse the transaction that you initiated.

I would like to see you get your money back. I would be more than happy to walk you through the ACH reversal process over the phone. You know how to reach us.

[extracrunchy]

I would like to see you get your money back. I would be more than happy to walk you through the ACH reversal process over the phone. You know how to reach us.

No, thank you. All you guys have been doing is making false promises and holding onto my money. Even PayPal has more self respect. I'll be talking to my bank directly.

I understand the Angelist post got your attention. I'll keep putting the word out about how you guys operate.

[Bitcoin Scammer]

These newbs are on bitcoinscammers.com also!! Hopefully people will wake up and stop getting scammed!

[extracrunchy]

These newbs are on bitcoinscammers.com also!! Hopefully people will wake up and stop getting scammed!

I'm also not sure why they're so secretive about their actual physical mailing address.. they just wont provide that to me!

In any case, part of BitBox maybe based out of the University of Michigan. I'll be contacting the University on Monday, and sending out emails in the meantime. I'm sure the University of Michigan wouldn't want to get dragged into this mess by these scammers!!

[bigdude]

People make things so complicated and cause a shit stir over nothing.

Send them the details they requested, and you get your $$ back.

Dont give them the info, and you lose the $$

It is 100% in your hands.

Seriously!!  

[extracrunchy]

Why would i send my passport/bank statement/tax returns to complete newbies?? Its not like they're mtgox or paypal... they're just an anonymous company who would probably sell my personal info to someone in romania!! For crying out loud, their own ToS says they can "disappear" at any time they feel like it and won't be liable to return any money!!!

[extracrunchy]

so i talked to an attorney friend, and he says that they can't keep my money with this BS reason. If theyre so worried about money laundering, they are required by law to either hand-deliver or mail a check back to me, but they can't just hold on to the money indefinitely....

[ruggedman_dan]

Never heard of Bitbox until now- in the Scam Forum of all places.

I think I will check them out.

Looks like any publicity really is good publicity, huh?

[extracrunchy]

sure, just don't send them an amount you can't afford to lose. try them out for yourself and let us know

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Why not give them a call?  If you really don't want to give them that info, they have given you the option of calling them and they will help you reverse your ACH.  (And yes, ACH's are reversible, I have done that myself).

You are being very stubborn here and it seems that they have given you a few options to get your money back, but it is on YOU who is refusing to do anything to get your money back.  Sorry, but the real world doesn't work that way.  You can't just snap your fingers and expect things to happen.  Call your bank to initiate an ACH reversal.  Or call them to have them help you with it (it will probably go faster this way).  But in any case, sitting on your butt isn't going to get you your money back.

[extracrunchy]

Called my bank, and you are right! ACH reversals can be made!

But I'll have to go to the branch in person, fill out a couple of forms, and wait ~10 business days to get my deposit back....

I still blame BitBox for all the wastage of time, and holding up of my money!!!

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Called my bank, and you are right! ACH reversals can be made!

But I'll have to go to the branch in person, fill out a couple of forms, and wait ~10 business days to get my deposit back....

I still blame BitBox for all the wastage of time, and holding up of my money!!!

I guess it depends on the bank.  Mine lets me do it with a phone call, but I have to talk to someone at the branch and not just someone in the corporate office (like I have to call the local branch).

But in the end, to be fair, it was your fault for the hold up.  It was you who refused to give them a call and who refused to provide them the info they requested.  I still don't know why you didn't just give them a call to sort it all out?