Drug Money and the Rise and Rise of Bitcoin

[tokeweed]

Ok, I know you're probably saying 'WTF man!', but here me out because it could be plausible.

I just saw the movie called 'American Made'.  It's about this pilot named Barry Seal who smuggled drugs for Pablo Escobar, and then guns for the CIA.  The thing is he made a lot of money that...  Like 'he doesn't know where to put them' a lot...  He buries bags full of cash in his backyard ffs, just like how Escobar did it.

Anyway, then I thought, it would be cool if Bitcoin was around during that time because they could easily store all that value in a USB drive.  Lol.

Then it occured to me...  Drug cartels today are bigger and better, what's stopping them from buying all the BTC they can get their hands on?

What do you guys think?

[thejaytiesto]

Ok, I know you're probably saying 'WTF man!', but here me out because it could be plausible.

I just saw the movie called 'American Made'.  It's about this pilot named Barry Seal who smuggled drugs for Pablo Escobar, and then guns for the CIA.  The thing is he made a lot of money that...  Like 'he doesn't know where to put them' a lot...  He buries bags full of cash in his backyard ffs, just like how Escobar did it.

Anyway, then I thought, it would be cool if Bitcoin was around during that time because they could easily store all that value in a USB drive.  Lol.

Then it occured to me...  Drug cartels today are bigger and better, what's stopping them from buying all the BTC they can get their hands on?

What do you guys think?

If you are a criminal you can't simply go to an exchange and buy $millions worth of bitcoin. They would need to find an OTC supplier ready to deal with criminals that has $millions in liquidity, not that easy of a task.

Also these guys are most likely computer illiterates and BTC requires knowledge to attempt to have any decent amount of privacy. They have street smarts and have no fear to shoot anybody, but I don't think they can get their heads around BTC, so they would need to hire someone else to do it which adds risk.

I think they will keep moving the good ol $ cash. But unfortunately it's a matter of time when BTC usage for criminal activity goes up (in fact it probably is going up permanently since the beginning).

[nydiacaskey01]

Ok, I know you're probably saying 'WTF man!', but here me out because it could be plausible.

I just saw the movie called 'American Made'.  It's about this pilot named Barry Seal who smuggled drugs for Pablo Escobar, and then guns for the CIA.  The thing is he made a lot of money that...  Like 'he doesn't know where to put them' a lot...  He buries bags full of cash in his backyard ffs, just like how Escobar did it.

Anyway, then I thought, it would be cool if Bitcoin was around during that time because they could easily store all that value in a USB drive.  Lol.

Then it occured to me...  Drug cartels today are bigger and better, what's stopping them from buying all the BTC they can get their hands on?

What do you guys think?

They can buy all the BTCs available that's for sure but it would be hard for them to buy what they need in real life using Bitcoin since they need to convert to fiat through legit exchanger which may give away their identities because exchanger would suspect the large amounts of cash out that is going to be requested. It is possible that they can go through other way of converting their BTC to Fiat but that will cost them more.

[fulmetal08larz]

in my opinion, bitcoin being used for illegal and criminal activities and money laundering is possibly true because the criminals, terrorists, and illegal doers are now getting wiser and have learnt from their own/others' previous mistake. This is not new in the world of cryptocurrency, in fact, bictoin was part of the black market before in silk road in which they are using it for illegal transactions. I personally think that the syndicate world will never be eliminated in the world we live in, it is part of the cycle and balance of this world.

[hatshepsut93]

If any illegal money played big role in Bitcoin, governments would just ban it quickly. I know a lot of people like to repeat "you can't ban Bitcoin", but you can ban exchanges and prohibit any operations with it, which would hurt it's liquidity and attractiveness as an investment. But the key feature of Bitcoin also makes it ill-suited for large scale illegal activities - publicity. If authorities will be able to deduce BTC address of a criminal (for example by asking an exchange), they would then be able to trace those coins and block any attempts to exchange them for fiat or spend them at places that comply with regulations.

[gentlemand]

They've been laundering billions forever decades before BTC ever came along. They'll have the right people in their pocket. There's no reason for them to bother with BTC. It opens up new avenues for tracing, failure and seizure (not the BTC bit obviously).

They have enough money to buy anyone in the conventional system.

[Coffee135]

Why do people like Pablo Escobar to cut the dollars in the bags? He has a lot of bills not connected with him but legally belonging to him. This is not a problem. We saw how many politicians were hiding their money offshore. So it's only one offshore. If you ever open information in other offshore and many other famous persons. Note this is legal money. Why did he have bitcoin?

[Unplugged]

Ok, I know you're probably saying 'WTF man!', but here me out because it could be plausible.

I just saw the movie called 'American Made'.  It's about this pilot named Barry Seal who smuggled drugs for Pablo Escobar, and then guns for the CIA.  The thing is he made a lot of money that...  Like 'he doesn't know where to put them' a lot...  He buries bags full of cash in his backyard ffs, just like how Escobar did it.

Anyway, then I thought, it would be cool if Bitcoin was around during that time because they could easily store all that value in a USB drive.  Lol.

Then it occured to me...  Drug cartels today are bigger and better, what's stopping them from buying all the BTC they can get their hands on?

What do you guys think?

If you are a criminal you can't simply go to an exchange and buy $millions worth of bitcoin. They would need to find an OTC supplier ready to deal with criminals that has $millions in liquidity, not that easy of a task.

Also these guys are most likely computer illiterates and BTC requires knowledge to attempt to have any decent amount of privacy. They have street smarts and have no fear to shoot anybody, but I don't think they can get their heads around BTC, so they would need to hire someone else to do it which adds risk.

I think they will keep moving the good ol $ cash. But unfortunately it's a matter of time when BTC usage for criminal activity goes up (in fact it probably is going up permanently since the beginning).

Well said. If a criminal would want to be in cryptocurrency to hide his money or simply want to gain more money it will not be that 'plausible. It will be a risk and might expose them easily. Knowledge and a basic grasp of what is it can be a big deal to them. I also agree with OP's statement "But unfortunately it's a matter of time when BTC usage for criminal activity goes up (in fact it probably is going up permanently since the beginning)."

[liuqi]

If any illegal money played big role in Bitcoin, governments would just ban it quickly. I know a lot of people like to repeat "you can't ban Bitcoin", but you can ban exchanges and prohibit any operations with it, which would hurt it's liquidity and attractiveness as an investment. But the key feature of Bitcoin also makes it ill-suited for large scale illegal activities - publicity. If authorities will be able to deduce BTC address of a criminal (for example by asking an exchange), they would then be able to trace those coins and block any attempts to exchange them for fiat or spend them at places that comply with regulations.

Illegal activities can be done by bitcoin or any type of fiat currency as well. So if you worry that someone saying bitcoin is being used in these things you can simply ignore them. Anonymous is the one of the best feature in bitcoin most of the people passing critics about the coins supply compare with drugs. We can trace address and transaction but not the correct person who is using it.

[tokeweed]

I don't think you guys get it.  Drug cartels have become one of the most powerful, most politically connected 'business corporations' in the world.  And the fact that they deal only in cash and have lots of it makes it really hard for them to store it all in banks without raising red flags.

They literally have trucks and trucks of cash.  Where do you think some of it goes?  It's very very plausible that it goes to Bitcoin for storage and for laundering.

[trickyriky]

But why only bitcoin. Actually bitcoin now is not best way to keep drugs money.
There are privacy tokens like Monero or Dash or some others. So not only bitcoin.
Actually just popularization of bitcoin give it price.

[tomahawk9]

There's no reason why a drug cartel would put billions of dollars in btc, it's value is so volatile that a drug cartel can't have the luxury to see their wealth has go down 1% because of some stupid hard fork. Also, they would need an exchange to buy/sell thousands of bitcoins, and that's just asking the DEA to come to your house. Besides, those guys have enough money and power to buy anyone in the society, from a banker to a politician, so they'd rather keep laundering money like they've been doing for years.

[Lucius]

Drug cartels and the rise in bitcoin prices because they use BTC is very unlikely,I also think that they prefer cash especially if it is an old school criminals.It is possible that some new generations of drug criminals will try to take advantage of BTC and some other coins maybe just to hide some of money and profit in future like most users.There is no doubt that BTC is also used in criminal activities,but nothing more or less than fiat.

[hase0278]

Ok, I know you're probably saying 'WTF man!', but here me out because it could be plausible.

I just saw the movie called 'American Made'.  It's about this pilot named Barry Seal who smuggled drugs for Pablo Escobar, and then guns for the CIA.  The thing is he made a lot of money that...  Like 'he doesn't know where to put them' a lot...  He buries bags full of cash in his backyard ffs, just like how Escobar did it.

Anyway, then I thought, it would be cool if Bitcoin was around during that time because they could easily store all that value in a USB drive.  Lol.

Then it occured to me...  Drug cartels today are bigger and better, what's stopping them from buying all the BTC they can get their hands on?

What do you guys think?

They only use bitcoin on drug related transactions as far as I know if the one they are transacting with is far away from them. When they can go meet personally to get the deal done, most of the time drug sellers and buyers meet up since it would be safer for them that way and also it is more guaranteed for them to receive their drug money and bought drugs rather than using online deepweb shops just to buy some. I also don't think that drug money and the rise of bitcoin is not related at all.

[ekoice]

Bitcoin was earlier adopted by dark markets and used for illegal purposes earlier.But since it was pseudo anonymous,they had some issues since all transactions are publicly registered in the ledger.So,government authorities could easily trace any transaction and reach the culprit.

Later,when they found monero providing full anonymity,they just adopted monero and started using it fully.Now,bitcoin is widely used all over the world by even normal people for various purposes like trading,transactions,paying bills,buying products online,etc.

So now,bitcoin rise has no relationship with drug usage.Bitcoin has already traveled beyond such borders.

[alyssa85]

Bitcoin was earlier adopted by dark markets and used for illegal purposes earlier.But since it was pseudo anonymous,they had some issues since all transactions are publicly registered in the ledger.So,government authorities could easily trace any transaction and reach the culprit.

Later,when they found monero providing full anonymity,they just adopted monero and started using it fully.Now,bitcoin is widely used all over the world by even normal people for various purposes like trading,transactions,paying bills,buying products online,etc.

So now,bitcoin rise has no relationship with drug usage.Bitcoin has already traveled beyond such borders.

Yup. The FBI testified to Congress that the public ledger made their job easier, because once they had tied an address to a person, they knew everything.

Most criminals prefer to use cash because it is genuinely anonymous, especially used bills that have been issued decades ago.

[tokeweed]

Bitcoin was earlier adopted by dark markets and used for illegal purposes earlier.But since it was pseudo anonymous,they had some issues since all transactions are publicly registered in the ledger.So,government authorities could easily trace any transaction and reach the culprit.

Later,when they found monero providing full anonymity,they just adopted monero and started using it fully.Now,bitcoin is widely used all over the world by even normal people for various purposes like trading,transactions,paying bills,buying products online,etc.

So now,bitcoin rise has no relationship with drug usage.Bitcoin has already traveled beyond such borders.

Yup. The FBI testified to Congress that the public ledger made their job easier, because once they had tied an address to a person, they knew everything.

Most criminals prefer to use cash because it is genuinely anonymous, especially used bills that have been issued decades ago.

That's why it's called money laundering.  They get someone else to buy the Bitcoins for them, to hold or to convert some back to fiat.

Haven't you guys learned anything about BTC-e and Alexander Vinnick?

And that's just part of the whole story.

[buwaytress]

Hey tokeweed, I'm hearing you out! Here's my take on it, after seeing several discussions and thinking about it myself.

1. To launder that much money, you'd have to be moving a LOT of bitcoins. Regularly. If the total market cap of crypto is only 165 billion, and of that only 94 billion, we're talking about very noticeable amounts being laundered. Even taking into account a $5000 Bitcoin value, to move 1 million dollars requires 200 Bitcoins. And we know the industry is moving hundreds of millions a month. Those Bitcoin volumes moving into USB wallets are going to be very easy to detect. Getting someone to SELL you those Bitcoins is going to be hard to find. Exchanges as we know them are going to be very difficult as well.

See, if you're moving millions of fiat in a global market of 100s of trillions, it's a speck. Perhaps when Bitcoin is valued at 100,000, it may become more viable.

2. It didn't take long for the FBI to track down dark markets who went through the trouble of mixing, remixing and anonymising their transactions... on a volume far smaller than drug cartels. What this tells us is that the tracking software has become very sophisticated.

I believe the technical knowledge required to hide and launder Bitcoin, being a non-anonymous public ledger and all that, is a deterrent to major organised crime to using crypto. They've got great accountants schooled in conventional finance, but not yet the skilled programmers who would help them use crypto to their needs.

However, due to ETH's architectural difference (and Monero's), illegal activities are moving towards them and it may well be that they could be used chiefly for these. Research already shows Bitcoin illegal use dropping sharply, and is predicted to be less than 5% of volume end of this year.

3. Most likely, they haven't heard about Bitcoin yet or don't know yet how to use it. Somewhat related to (2)... but you know, these guys are probably unimaginably removed from our world of computers and digital tech. Call it a deeply-ingrained culture of paranoia!

[Red-Apple]

why would they even want this?
as a criminal or a drug cartel you would want to do your best to keep your money as private as possible. so you go through methods that leave a trace behind and even if they do, you clean that trace.

everyone knows well enough that bitcoin leaves the most amount of trace behind since every single transaction ever made is public.

in my opinion if any drug cartel ever wants to put their money in cryptocurrencies, they will choose something like Monero so that they can be sure it is not traceable

[alyssa85]

1. To launder that much money, you'd have to be moving a LOT of bitcoins. Regularly. If the total market cap of crypto is only 165 billion, and of that only 94 billion, we're talking about very noticeable amounts being laundered. Even taking into account a $5000 Bitcoin value, to move 1 million dollars requires 200 Bitcoins. And we know the industry is moving hundreds of millions a month. Those Bitcoin volumes moving into USB wallets are going to be very easy to detect. Getting someone to SELL you those Bitcoins is going to be hard to find. Exchanges as we know them are going to be very difficult as well.

See, if you're moving millions of fiat in a global market of 100s of trillions, it's a speck. Perhaps when Bitcoin is valued at 100,000, it may become more viable.

This. It's easier to launder money through a legit business, or use cash, than bitcoin. Bitcoin is too small, and the public ledger means that if your address is tied to a persona, you are toast.