[CLOSED] 100 KnC Jupiter 1-500

[2weiX]

vote: don't make it all/nothing.

would be nice if you could just buy these the ones that get bought and drop the rest.
i already have two of the smaller machines ordered, would get a refund for those then and pay you.

[1714184963]

1714184963

[1714184963]

1714184963

[Mabsark]

Since you'll be offering the hosting option, and you don't believe you'll sell all the units available, you should consider selling shares of the units. There's a lot of people who simply can't participate in these group buys due to not having the funds.

For example, you want 71 BTC for each device, so 1/100 shares would cost 0.71 for BTC for 1.2 Gh/s, which a lot more people could afford. If you really want to reach the masses, you could sell 1/1000 shares for 0.071 BTC for 120 Mh/s.

Personally, I'd go with something like shares representing 1/1200 costing 0.071 BTC for 100 Mh/s with you keeping 200 shares as a management fee.

I think you'd sell a few more machines with such an offer on the table.

[zefir]

vote: don't make it all/nothing.

would be nice if you could just buy these the ones that get bought and drop the rest.
i already have two of the smaller machines ordered, would get a refund for those then and pay you.

This is something I will need to think about when I know the final numbers. The whole idea of making it all-or-nothing is to get my effort compensated from KnC and not from the community. I openly dislike the trades of pre-orders people got basically for free and am not going to seek profit from this.

Therefore one potential outcome of this group buy (in the case of insufficient funding) might be to give the pre-order-position for free to those who committed support. Essentially it means, if you have sent coins to register, you will get your 1-500 Jupiter anyway: either through this group buy or via a free position in the pre-order queue.
(Should have titled this thread 'KnC Jupiter pre-orders for free', maybe )

[zefir]

Since you'll be offering the hosting option, and you don't believe you'll sell all the units available, you should consider selling shares of the units. There's a lot of people who simply can't participate in these group buys due to not having the funds.

For example, you want 71 BTC for each device, so 1/100 shares would cost 0.71 for BTC for 1.2 Gh/s, which a lot more people could afford. If you really want to reach the masses, you could sell 1/1000 shares for 0.071 BTC for 120 Mh/s.

Personally, I'd go with something like shares representing 1/1200 costing 0.071 BTC for 100 Mh/s with you keeping 200 shares as a management fee.

I think you'd sell a few more machines with such an offer on the table.

There are some folks going this approach and people who do not want to risk that much have already enough choices.

From operating a publicly traded mining bond in the past I know that this is a full-time-job that is a perfect challenge to learn a lot about Bitcoin if you don't have a day job. I do have one, and this is nothing I could do well enough in my limited spare time.

Sadly time is short, otherwise I would not mind if someone else organized such contracts with units bought from this group buy.

[Franktank]

Since you'll be offering the hosting option, and you don't believe you'll sell all the units available, you should consider selling shares of the units. There's a lot of people who simply can't participate in these group buys due to not having the funds.

For example, you want 71 BTC for each device, so 1/100 shares would cost 0.71 for BTC for 1.2 Gh/s, which a lot more people could afford. If you really want to reach the masses, you could sell 1/1000 shares for 0.071 BTC for 120 Mh/s.

Personally, I'd go with something like shares representing 1/1200 costing 0.071 BTC for 100 Mh/s with you keeping 200 shares as a management fee.

I think you'd sell a few more machines with such an offer on the table.

There are some folks going this approach and people who do not want to risk that much have already enough choices.

From operating a publicly traded mining bond in the past I know that this is a full-time-job that is a perfect challenge to learn a lot about Bitcoin if you don't have a day job. I do have one, and this is nothing I could do well enough in my limited spare time.

Sadly time is short, otherwise I would not mind if someone else organized such contracts with units bought from this group buy.

Did that here

[DPoS]

so I guess the big discount you will pocket is worth all the trouble of shipping out 80 jupiters? (or not, and just let KnC host)

if you get 20% off that means you get 20 free jupiters

nice angle if you can pull it off, not much time though

[jc328]

Intrigued.  Pm'ed, and would be in for 1 or 2 depending on when full payment for the devices would be required after your deadline.  Thank you.

-JC

[zefir]

so I guess the big discount you will pocket is worth all the trouble of shipping out 80 jupiters? (or not, and just let KnC host)

if you get 20% off that means you get 20 free jupiters

nice angle if you can pull it off, not much time though

We are talking more about 5% here than about 20 - which still is enough to cover re-shipping costs and leave one fee Jupiter for me.

But you're right, time is short and demand dried up, so most probably those registered will get a free 1-500 slot from me and order themselves.

[zefir]

Update: Price Adaptation

With the recent exchange rate drop of BTC of over 20% over the past 2 days and the price for Jupiter denominated in fiat, the supposed equivalent of 70 BTC per unit will not suffice, it will more likely be around 80.

Those who already joined or consider doing so, please ensure you have the additional coins liquid when they are due (which is tomorrow Monday, exact deadline needs to be provided by KnC).

[yxt]

vote: don't make it all/nothing.

would be nice if you could just buy these the ones that get bought and drop the rest.

+1

[DPoS]

This seems like a good 'learning moment' in many regards.
I know you are steamed right now, but overall many need to open their eyes here


When you were chasing ~5% gain on an all or nothing bet (if you hedged, you would of already bought your 20 jupiters, and then placed the rest IF you could swing the 100 from others)

Now btc price tanks and you lose way more on this than gaining 5%.


'How could we have known' ?


You made public an OBSCENE transaction that by definition will have to liquidate btc very soon (kncminer HAS to convert once they get from you shortly - there is a reason for darkpools in stock exhanges)

Anyone sitting on a pile of btc that saw your post would NEED to sell before kncminer tries to.. and then there was also more notice of Avalon BTC funds still sitting and not exchanged into chips either...

so this quickly switched the market from fun casino to a run before the bust..

there are just too many big piles of btc doubling down into next wave of miners that HAVE to exchange to real world chip facilities.  A ponzi we will mimic

I feel people in your stature need to position yourself into wealth protection which means cementing an ecology for btc.  Not easy at all but without it all your wealth will turn to dust.

I'm a small player that only keeps 10 btc on hand and trade with anything over that.  So I was sitting on 10 the last few days and when I saw your post and Yufi's I knew that I needed to keep some powder dry soon..  and here we are.

[AvenG]

due to current exchange rate drop, any chance of accepting fiat currency (Paypal & Wire Transfer) instead of BTC?

[bitdaniel]

+1 for me

[zefir]

This seems like a good 'learning moment' in many regards.
I know you are steamed right now, but overall many need to open their eyes here


When you were chasing ~5% gain on an all or nothing bet (if you hedged, you would of already bought your 20 jupiters, and then placed the rest IF you could swing the 100 from others)

Now btc price tanks and you lose way more on this than gaining 5%.


'How could we have known' ?


You made public an OBSCENE transaction that by definition will have to liquidate btc very soon (kncminer HAS to convert once they get from you shortly - there is a reason for darkpools in stock exhanges)

Anyone sitting on a pile of btc that saw your post would NEED to sell before kncminer tries to.. and then there was also more notice of Avalon BTC funds still sitting and not exchanged into chips either...

so this quickly switched the market from fun casino to a run before the bust..

there are just too many big piles of btc doubling down into next wave of miners that HAVE to exchange to real world chip facilities.  A ponzi we will mimic

I feel people in your stature need to position yourself into wealth protection which means cementing an ecology for btc.  Not easy at all but without it all your wealth will turn to dust.

I'm a small player that only keeps 10 btc on hand and trade with anything over that.  So I was sitting on 10 the last few days and when I saw your post and Yufi's I knew that I needed to keep some powder dry soon..  and here we are.

I fail to get your point.

If you argue that this group buy had any impact on the current exchange rate collapse, then you clearly overestimate it. So far, there is interest for only 7 devices, one buyer already stepped back. That's what, 500 BTC? You seriously think that this has some relevance? By your logic, Avalon was responsible for some recent crashes after announcing their sales and with that indicated some coin movements. You won't get much support for your claim to not use BTC as what it is meant for - namely as currency.

As for the remainder of your post, what exactly is your critique?

[DPoS]

This seems like a good 'learning moment' in many regards.
I know you are steamed right now, but overall many need to open their eyes here


When you were chasing ~5% gain on an all or nothing bet (if you hedged, you would of already bought your 20 jupiters, and then placed the rest IF you could swing the 100 from others)

Now btc price tanks and you lose way more on this than gaining 5%.


'How could we have known' ?


You made public an OBSCENE transaction that by definition will have to liquidate btc very soon (kncminer HAS to convert once they get from you shortly - there is a reason for darkpools in stock exhanges)

Anyone sitting on a pile of btc that saw your post would NEED to sell before kncminer tries to.. and then there was also more notice of Avalon BTC funds still sitting and not exchanged into chips either...

so this quickly switched the market from fun casino to a run before the bust..

there are just too many big piles of btc doubling down into next wave of miners that HAVE to exchange to real world chip facilities.  A ponzi we will mimic

I feel people in your stature need to position yourself into wealth protection which means cementing an ecology for btc.  Not easy at all but without it all your wealth will turn to dust.

I'm a small player that only keeps 10 btc on hand and trade with anything over that.  So I was sitting on 10 the last few days and when I saw your post and Yufi's I knew that I needed to keep some powder dry soon..  and here we are.

I fail to get your point.

If you argue that this group buy had any impact on the current exchange rate collapse, then you clearly overestimate it. So far, there is interest for only 7 devices, one buyer already stepped back. That's what, 500 BTC? You seriously think that this has some relevance? By your logic, Avalon was responsible for some recent crashes after announcing their sales and with that indicated some coin movements. You won't get much support for your claim to not use BTC as what it is meant for - namely as currency.

As for the remainder of your post, what exactly is your critique?

I spent most of the past 5 years on financial blogs and you find out that what people may do is more of an activator to others than what they eventually do.

Frontrunning means cashing out some chips before the next guy in basically a prisoner's dilemma situation.  If trader A knows that trader B and C all can get the same info they just got, panic sets in and even though it would be better for all three traders to work together and not panic, there is no trust or guarantee so one usually does what's best for themselves immediately

It might not be tomorrow or next week but the clock is ticking for kncminer & whoever is controlling avalon's chip funds to move that btc into production.
I was just pointing out your move since it was even more public than most when people see those types of numbers and a short deadline.

Fear, animal spirits, fight or flight, you name it..  and this is mostly a oneway market which is why I brought up the marketplace.   It may be best for someone like you to raise the value of what you already got instead of doubling down to just chase more coins with no real stability in its price.

[clicksmoney]

This smells like fail - for somebody NOT ME. GL with it!

[zefir]

I spent most of the past 5 years on financial blogs and you find out that what people may do is more of an activator to others than what they eventually do.

Frontrunning means cashing out some chips before the next guy in basically a prisoner's dilemma situation.  If trader A knows that trader B and C all can get the same info they just got, panic sets in and even though it would be better for all three traders to work together and not panic, there is no trust or guarantee so one usually does what's best for themselves immediately

It might not be tomorrow or next week but the clock is ticking for kncminer & whoever is controlling avalon's chip funds to move that btc into production.
I was just pointing out your move since it was even more public than most when people see those types of numbers and a short deadline.

Fear, animal spirits, fight or flight, you name it..  and this is mostly a oneway market which is why I brought up the marketplace.   It may be best for someone like you to raise the value of what you already got instead of doubling down to just chase more coins with no real stability in its price.

Ok, with your experience you then are playing in a different league than I do. I am not a trader and just enjoy using BTC as currency for its superior properties. If you are saying money transfer into and out of BTC in the volumes we are discussing here should be hidden from public, I fear there is something seriously conceptually wrong and I should start selling all my coins.

[yxt]

Status update?

[zefir]

Update: Phase one closed, Group Buy failed
As already expected before, the first time window closed and this group buy failed. Please do not send any more coins to 1EqJmgTZkiA5u7FaJmbiK9otznpx3G5Qha

With interest for only 7 devices, the demand was lower than expected.

What now?
I got a response from KnC clarifying the following topics

• Pre-order closing time is 2013-06-10T22:00Z (or tomorrow Monday, midnight CET)
• ordering initially for hosting and then shipping devices to different addresses is ok

Two potential approaches to finalize the deal for those who are still interested to buy their Jupiter:

• we proceed with the process as planned, i.e. you send 80 BTC per device to order to 1EW13ao9f6nFh51NrdKjLH1DTCgBbcFKH9 within the next 24h; I'll order tomorrow with devices designated for hosting and whoever wants his device shipped to him directly will have to pay shipping + VAT; after payment I will return the overpaid coins (80 - final price) to sender
• you just get the position in pre-order queue from me and organize everything by yourself (I'd need to understand the process that is accepted by KnC for this transfer, if you know more, please let me know)

All who sent coins to 1EqJmgTZkiA5u7FaJmbiK9otznpx3G5Qha, please PM me and tell me what you prefer. I will send the coins in this address back to sender when this deal is finalized.


Thanks.

[DPoS]

I spent most of the past 5 years on financial blogs and you find out that what people may do is more of an activator to others than what they eventually do.

Frontrunning means cashing out some chips before the next guy in basically a prisoner's dilemma situation.  If trader A knows that trader B and C all can get the same info they just got, panic sets in and even though it would be better for all three traders to work together and not panic, there is no trust or guarantee so one usually does what's best for themselves immediately

It might not be tomorrow or next week but the clock is ticking for kncminer & whoever is controlling avalon's chip funds to move that btc into production.
I was just pointing out your move since it was even more public than most when people see those types of numbers and a short deadline.

Fear, animal spirits, fight or flight, you name it..  and this is mostly a oneway market which is why I brought up the marketplace.   It may be best for someone like you to raise the value of what you already got instead of doubling down to just chase more coins with no real stability in its price.

Ok, with your experience you then are playing in a different league than I do. I am not a trader and just enjoy using BTC as currency for its superior properties. If you are saying money transfer into and out of BTC in the volumes we are discussing here should be hidden from public, I fear there is something seriously conceptually wrong and I should start selling all my coins.

Thankfully BTC has a lot of good things going for it and I use it as a currency as much as I can.

What does need to happen sooner rather than later (besides a growning marketplace) is more and more exchanges need to pop up and create easier ways to move money between them.  That will be the best safety net as many traders will be able to grab arbitrage quickly which will prevent liquidity sell offs from doing major damage

You have to think of it this way... in a stock market, if someone does a slam job on a stock, someone else could move quickly and sell some of their other stocks and buy up the sell off.   There really is no protection like that on our small exchanges.  BTC is our one stock since it is such a one-way trade.  Just like you can't really buy too much with IBM stock until you convert it to cash unless you find someone to take it.

Is the answer margin accounts?  I think Kraken is talking about allowing them. That could be a godsend or pure trouble.

Back to the main point:  when you hear the big dogs on the financial world talk about what they are doing, they are always pretty vauge on what they are doing and most probably lying and doing the opposite.

You're definitely a big fish in this pond so I figured I'd point out what the sharks usually do..