Support for Ripple / Status on "Holy Grail" bounty for OT

[fellowtraveler]

First, I just wanted to post a statement in support of Ripple.

Some may be surprised by this, since Ripple is often seen as being "in competition" with OT. But I don't see it that way. First, Ripple and OT really are apples and oranges. There is some overlap in functionality (not much), but the underlying technologies really are quite different.

I believe that ideally, every technology will end up being used where it best solves specific problems. To whatever degree OT solves problems better, then OT will naturally rise. And the same is true for Ripple and any other technology.

===> If it turns out that Ripple solves problems for p2p exchange of Bitcoin, then that is important -- especially in this day and age of Liberty Reserve.

I encourage everyone to read this document I wrote a year back:

http://bit.ly/15cFIon  (In google docs)
http://ft.vm.to/files/FT-thoughts.pdf  (direct download)

I have always been in favor of Ripple, as you can see in my writings, and I think some of the criticism against the current Ripple effort is a bit unfair.

First, the "closed source" thing. This has been a source of suspicion, but as a software developer I think they are still just working the bugs out and I have no reason to believe they won't release their code when they feel comfortable doing so. (If you don't feel comfortable with that -- fair enough, don't use it yet.)

Second, the "pre-mined XRP" thing. The bottom line is, you don't have to use XRP for your savings if you don't want to. You only need a very small amount of XRP to actually perform transactions -- so just don't accumulate any more than that, if you don't want to. (The technology can still be used whether you believe in the currency or not.)

The bottom line is, the technology will either solve problems, or not. Ripple provides p2p credit lines, which OT does not, and that alone makes it interesting to me. And the currency will either succeed, or not. If Bitcoin is the best currency on earth, then nothing will change that. Nothing can threaten that.

I don't think the Ripple people are bad guys -- I think they are working to improve money just as we all are, and I believe in supporting anyone who is pouring their heart and soul into bringing us closer to monetary freedom. Even Satoshi made his hundred million dollars. Personally I hope the Ripple guys get as rich as Mark Zuckerberg.

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Open-Transactions / Bitmessage p2p exchange

HOLY GRAIL BOUNTY / Original "Holy Grail" thread

===> The bounty for the "Holy Grail" is now over 63 BTC! <===

There are still tasks open for those who wish to sign up and help us build this thing.

See the "Holy Grail Bounty" thread for instructions on how to sign up to code a portion.

You can also see a screenshot in that thread of some of the work that has been accomplished so far.

Let's pool our efforts and get this thing done!

Thanks for all of your support so far.

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[tysat]

Just going to say... ripple was made for profit, do you really trust a for profit company?

[bluemeanie1]

Just going to say... ripple was made for profit, do you really trust a for profit company?

Both Ripple and Open Transactions are for-profit projects.

[lexxus]

Just going to say... ripple was made for profit, do you really trust a for profit company?

Screw socialism. I trust for profit companies.

[bluemeanie1]

Just going to say... ripple was made for profit, do you really trust a for profit company?

Screw socialism. I trust for profit companies.

the next thing that's going to happen in this space is a wave of 'for profit' companies attempting to co-opt the community in a variety of ways.

It's very simple really- the average person simply isn't concerned with what gave Bitcoin life- but rather they are just interested in what it gives them.

It's just like the United States- most people are unaware and unconcerned as to why America is a prosperous place, they only want their hamburger.  They are not concerned about constitutional law, it's erosion, or even removal.  Take away that hamburger though and they'll be rioting the streets.

So these new wave of groups[1] are spending money on PR to appear as if they are identical, or similar, to Bitcoin.  I've pointed out a number of reasons why the stories of either of these projects don't add up.  It's not surprising that Chris sought out their support, because this is the nature of the way money works- it's tends to agglomerate and centralize.  And this is exactly why Bitcoin is so important, and it's also exactly why you need to be diligent when considering these other projects.

[1] which if you have the time and energy to look closely are not open at all

[acoindr]

First, the "closed source" thing. This has been a source of suspicion, but as a software developer I think they are still just working the bugs out and I have no reason to believe they won't release their code when they feel comfortable doing so. (If you don't feel comfortable with that -- fair enough, don't use it yet.)

That makes no sense. Everyone knows the best way to root out bugs is to make something open source.

Money on the other hand is a strange thing. Once it has traction and is widely accepted it's hard to take that away. Look at how inferior fiat money is, yet how hard it is to dislodge it.

[bluemeanie1]

First, the "closed source" thing. This has been a source of suspicion, but as a software developer I think they are still just working the bugs out and I have no reason to believe they won't release their code when they feel comfortable doing so. (If you don't feel comfortable with that -- fair enough, don't use it yet.)

That makes no sense. Everyone knows the best way to root out bugs and improve code is to make something open source.

Money on the other hand is a strange thing. Once it has traction and is widely accepted it's hard to take that away. Look at how inferior fiat money is, yet how hard it is to dislodge it.

It's rather hilarious to me that Chris is making excuses for them at this point.

and I think you're right, if these things gain a level of traction and 'easy use', then it'll be difficult to dislodge them.  Problem is we won't have any more 'monetary freedom' at the end of the day, and wasn't that the reason were here in the first place?

[acoindr]

First, the "closed source" thing. This has been a source of suspicion, but as a software developer I think they are still just working the bugs out and I have no reason to believe they won't release their code when they feel comfortable doing so. (If you don't feel comfortable with that -- fair enough, don't use it yet.)

That makes no sense. Everyone knows the best way to root out bugs and improve code is to make something open source.

Money on the other hand is a strange thing. Once it has traction and is widely accepted it's hard to take that away. Look at how inferior fiat money is, yet how hard it is to dislodge it.

It's rather hilarious to me that Chris is making excuses for them at this point.

and I think you're right, if these things gain a level of traction and 'easy use', then it'll be difficult to dislodge them.  Problem is we won't have any more 'monetary freedom' at the end of the day, and wasn't that the reason were here in the first place?

I don't have a problem with Ripple making an entrance to the monetary market. I also don't have a problem with its creators pre-mining or centrally administering it. They are free to do whatever they want, and I believe in competing currencies. What I would have a problem with however is purposeful misrepresentation. If the Ripple guys want to maintain certain privileges that's fine with me, but be forthright about it and let the market take over from there.

[CasinoSupportTeam]

Ripple is a brilliant idea and an amazing concept needed to link everything together.

Here these people talk about a for profit business without thinking why people mine BTC's in the first place and how many Satoshi must be holding along with DPR and others.

It amazes me some of the idiocy on these forums!


- SkullCard

[bluemeanie1]

Ripple is a brilliant idea and an amazing concept needed to link everything together.

Here these people talk about a for profit business without thinking why people mine BTC's in the first place and how many Satoshi must be holding along with DPR and others.

It amazes me some of the idiocy on these forums!


- SkullCard

well, it's a subtle thing really.  If the technology doesn't deliver us something better than the existing money system, then it has no purpose.

[bluemeanie1]

I don't have a problem with Ripple making an entrance to the monetary market. I also don't have a problem with its creators pre-mining or centrally administering it. They are free to do whatever they want, and I believe in competing currencies. What I would have a problem with however is purposeful misrepresentation. If the Ripple guys want to maintain certain privileges that's fine with me, but be forthright about it and let the market take over from there.

right.  Ripple does employ quite a bit of 'doublespeak'.  http://ripplescam.org/

Chris even more so.  He has made no less than THREE topic postings about his recent self described 'holy grail'(that's just on this forum).  Im probably one of the few people alive who can really say informed things about what is inside OT.

We have lots of 'for profit' companies.  Mt Gox for instance.  No one is demanding they do this or that- but these two other projects are quite different really.  It's a kind of social engineering effort, one far more sophisticated than the other(Chris was and still is a professional internet marketer).  If what Chris says is true, he has gone into debt to some venture capitalist.  This has a tendency to shape your behavior.  People have made similar offerings to me, but I'm not so naive and immature.

Personally I think that digital currency technology reacts with investment money in unique ways- think about it: IT IS A MONEY/INVESTMENT technology itself.  Thus, to achieve the goals of such, it must in effect challenge the very NATURE of investment capital.  This is why every single digital currency company flopped, and also why the only technology to ever take off was completely non-proprietary(and I mean that in the full sense of the term).  And not only non-proprietary, but completely anonymous.

Thus any technologies that will any impact must be free from proprietary hooks.  Neither OT nor Ripple qualify for this.

here is a post I just made describing some of the issues regarding Open Transactions licensing model.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=172705.msg2411466#msg2411466

[fellowtraveler]

I suggest people take "bluemeanie1" aka Joshua Zeidner with a grain of salt.