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Author Topic: Transaction Fee Question  (Read 1218 times)
striker11111111
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June 27, 2011, 01:33:16 AM
 #1

Hi, new to bitcoin here

After much hassle (sent my first wire to Mt.Gox just before they went down), I finally have some money in Mt.Gox. I bought about 10 BTC to test. I tried to send 0.01, 0.1 and then 1 BTC to my friend, but every time, it came up and said something along the lines of "error: This transaction is over the size limit" and I was then forced to pay a fee of 0.0005 BTC. What does this mean and why am I being charged this fee? How can I get around this?

Please let me know. THanks in advance for anyone who decides to help.
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flailing Junk
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June 27, 2011, 01:38:44 AM
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I am getting the same thing. Guess it being a "completely optional fee to process transactions more quickly" was a line of BS.
TiagoTiago
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June 27, 2011, 01:46:08 AM
 #3

Over the size limit? That doesn't sound right...the mandatory fee is for very small transactions ('cause they would clutter the network more than  be useful; so a fee is charged to avoid people spamming the network)

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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USSJoin
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June 27, 2011, 01:52:45 AM
 #4

Over the size limit? That doesn't sound right...the mandatory fee is for very small transactions ('cause they would clutter the network more than  be useful; so a fee is charged to avoid people spamming the network)

Nope, I can confirm the problem (I was sending a few small transactions today). The string is just wrong in the source-- I'll go file a bug.
flailing Junk
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June 27, 2011, 01:56:15 AM
 #5

I have tried everything from a tenth to a millionth of a bitcoin with the same message and no transaction if I don't pay the fee. Who the hell decided that it would be .0005 anyway? What is is going to be in the future? Nothing makes sense about this unless it is a vagary of the client that I am using, and then only slightly less of a WTF.
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June 27, 2011, 01:58:44 AM
 #6

There is already at least one thread about the decision to change the fee from 0.01 down to 0.005 (instead of leaving it to choice or using a different value or  using a different minimum amount as threshold to start charging fees)

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

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flailing Junk
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June 27, 2011, 02:03:13 AM
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There is already at least one thread about the decision to change the fee from 0.01 down to 0.005 (instead of leaving it to choice or using a different value or  using a different minimum amount as threshold to start charging fees)

I don't see it. Who made the decision?
striker11111111
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June 27, 2011, 02:09:49 AM
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There is already at least one thread about the decision to change the fee from 0.01 down to 0.005 (instead of leaving it to choice or using a different value or  using a different minimum amount as threshold to start charging fees)

So does this mean that there will now be a mandatory charge on all BTC transfers???
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June 27, 2011, 02:19:33 AM
 #9

There is already at least one thread about the decision to change the fee from 0.01 down to 0.005 (instead of leaving it to choice or using a different value or  using a different minimum amount as threshold to start charging fees)

I don't see it. Who made the decision?
https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7749.0


There is already at least one thread about the decision to change the fee from 0.01 down to 0.005 (instead of leaving it to choice or using a different value or  using a different minimum amount as threshold to start charging fees)

So does this mean that there will now be a mandatory charge on all BTC transfers???
It's supposed to only be for the smaller ones from what i understand

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
Yatta99
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June 27, 2011, 02:31:53 AM
 #10

How about a real world analogy to try to explain this?

Lets say that you have a new checking account with a bank. The bank is willing to let you write checks for free provided that the check is for $1 or more (although they wouldn't turn down a small donation if you are so inclined). For checks under $1 the bank imposes a small fee of 5 cents (for example) per check. This is to prevent a bunch of people, that are excited with their new accounts, from clogging up the system by writing a bunch of one cent checks to each other.

There's a bit more than that to it, but that's the basic idea.

Tips for new box to: 16s14wcsNo5TcdsGLttL7B1XWiCv8E4L6A
striker11111111
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June 27, 2011, 02:36:25 AM
 #11

OK Yatta, that makes a lot of sense, but what is the threshold? How small is too small? I tried 1 BTC still got charged. And in this case, how do all those small-volume exchanges (like bitmarket.eu where people sell 1-2 bitcoins at a time) work? Everyone pays a fee?
TiagoTiago
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June 27, 2011, 02:38:06 AM
 #12

1 BTC shouldn't trigger the mandatory fee, somthing isn't right...

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC/BCH for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
flailing Junk
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June 27, 2011, 02:44:13 AM
 #13

How about a real world analogy to try to explain this?

Right, but bitcoin is supposed to be decentralized. I should be able to offer a transaction fee and miners should be able to accept or reject it. Not a arbitrary fee coming out of nowhere. 
Yatta99
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June 27, 2011, 02:51:42 AM
 #14

Don't know what the threshold is, but as I stated, the amount is just part of the equasion. The number of confirmations on the specific amount that you are sending also plays a part in the fee structure. What I know to be true (while I don't know exact numbers):

- under a certain amount (an amount that is less than 1 BTC) there will always be a small transaction fee charged. Even if you have transaction fees set to 0.00 in your client. This is a different transaction fee.

- anything over that amount is free provided that it has enough confirmations relative to it's size. No, I do not know the size to confirmation ratio that's used.

For example (with made up numbers):

You receive a payout of 1 BTC from mining and you go and try to buy something for .75 BTC. If the 1 BTC that you are trying to spend only has 3 confirmations then you will pay the fee. If you wait until it has 15 confirmations then there will not be a fee.

More clearer?

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bcforum
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June 27, 2011, 02:53:21 AM
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How about a real world analogy to try to explain this?

Right, but bitcoin is supposed to be decentralized. I should be able to offer a transaction fee and miners should be able to accept or reject it. Not a arbitrary fee coming out of nowhere. 

There are a couple problems with the transaction fee system.

1) The standard client refuses to post a transaction unless an arbitrary minimum fee is paid. Anyone with a modicum of programming ability can change the client to fix this.
2) The standard mining client appears to accept transactions into a block independent of the fee paid.
3) If the miners ever decided to NOT accept zero fee transactions, there isn't any way to cancel a transaction or spend the coins again (for example in a duplicate transaction that added a fee) You are stuck with a transaction that won't complete and can't be cancelled

The protocol should be modified to allow adding a fee to a transaction after the fact (by either end) and miners should stop accepting transactions that do not pay a transaction fee.

If you found this post useful, feel free to share the wealth: 1E35gTBmJzPNJ3v72DX4wu4YtvHTWqNRbM
striker11111111
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June 27, 2011, 04:15:48 AM
 #16

Don't know what the threshold is, but as I stated, the amount is just part of the equasion. The number of confirmations on the specific amount that you are sending also plays a part in the fee structure. What I know to be true (while I don't know exact numbers):

- under a certain amount (an amount that is less than 1 BTC) there will always be a small transaction fee charged. Even if you have transaction fees set to 0.00 in your client. This is a different transaction fee.

- anything over that amount is free provided that it has enough confirmations relative to it's size. No, I do not know the size to confirmation ratio that's used.

For example (with made up numbers):

You receive a payout of 1 BTC from mining and you go and try to buy something for .75 BTC. If the 1 BTC that you are trying to spend only has 3 confirmations then you will pay the fee. If you wait until it has 15 confirmations then there will not be a fee.

More clearer?


Crystal Clear. Once I got some more confirmations, I was able to send even 0.01 BTC w/o any fee.
boaz2020
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June 27, 2011, 05:08:04 AM
 #17

Wow. This clears up so much for me.
The error message displayed in the UI is quite erroneous.

I was confused about the size of the transaction being too large as well.

Thanks Yatta99!
johnnycomelate
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June 27, 2011, 06:04:07 AM
 #18

I get that error alot as well.  You need to wait a few minutes because it has some kind of a limit on the number of transactions you can make in a given time without paying the fee.  I have no clue what the limits are but they are there.  If you wait it will eventually allow the transaction for free.
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