Do run a Bitcoin Core FULL NODE Now!

[cellard]

.....
You should NOT parasitize hoping that someone would perform hard, dirty work instead of you. 
You must help, you SHOULD do yourself what you CAN do yourself.

Parasitize?

Miners mine for profit.

The whole spectrum of the game theory involving miners goes deeper. Miners can be bribed to act in a way that would seem irrational at first, without knowing that there is a bribe going on.

Case in point: An attacker (let's call this Government A) bribes miners into mining at a loss, the chain of a fork, in order to push this fork as "the real Bitcoin on all major exchanges, which are also bribed by Government A, such as Coinbase et al. These miners seem to be mining a less valuable coin, but they are making more money doing so by accepting the bribes.

This is an attack on bitcoin, and this will explain when you see any miners mining segwit2x at a loss in the following weeks.

[neurotypical]

.....
Yes, that's right, I don't trust Trezor, and I certainly don't trust an SPV wallet no matter if it's called Electrum or anything else.

The HD wallet on Core cannot be generated through a seed, but since I don't know the details, I choose to stay under the old non HD format for now.

It's important to not get overly complicated or confused.

Here's the simplest way to create perfectly safe cold storage.

Load some wallet like Electrum or Core. Put some bitcoin in a single adress using this wallet. First a small amount, then a larger, then a larger still.

Verify that the coin is in the blockchain at the address.

Now make a backup of the wallet.dat, the seed words, the passphrases, and triple check that you have them right.

Delete the wallet, the blockchain, and the browser you used to check the blockchain.

You are now done. You have coin on the blockchain, and cold storage of the access methods (s).

Now build another wallet for incidental purchases.

It would be easy to maintain only 1 address in a cold storaged wallet, but this is very bad advice when it comes to maintaining privacy.

Ruling out Electrum, I would need to keep that 1-address wallet.dat file from Bitcoin Core. So everytime I send coins to my cold storage, they all would end up in a single address, which means it could be analized to find out how much BTC you own. You have to avoid this. You don't want a lot of BTC showing up on these "rich addresses" things (I don't have as much by any means, but it is still a mistake to do that privacy wise).

Also if you delete Bitcoin Core you couldn't test if your wallet.dat has been corrupted or not (files can corrupt over time).

[Bestcoin-fan]

It's important to not get overly complicated or confused.

Here's the simplest way to create perfectly safe cold storage.

Load some wallet like Electrum or Core. Put some bitcoin in a single adress using this wallet. First a small amount, then a larger, then a larger still.

Verify that the coin is in the blockchain at the address.

Now make a backup of the wallet.dat, the seed words, the passphrases, and triple check that you have them right.

Delete the wallet, the blockchain, and the browser you used to check the blockchain.

You are now done. You have coin on the blockchain, and cold storage of the access methods (s).

Now build another wallet for incidental purchases.

It would be easy to maintain only 1 address in a cold storaged wallet, but this is very bad advice when it comes to maintaining privacy.

Ruling out Electrum, I would need to keep that 1-address wallet.dat file from Bitcoin Core. So everytime I send coins to my cold storage, they all would end up in a single address, which means it could be analized to find out how much BTC you own. You have to avoid this. You don't want a lot of BTC showing up on these "rich addresses" things (I don't have as much by any means, but it is still a mistake to do that privacy wise).

Also if you delete Bitcoin Core you couldn't test if your wallet.dat has been corrupted or not (files can corrupt over time).

In your cold storage wallet you may generate a thousand different addresses, and every time send Bitcoins to different ones. You may even generate as many whole wallets as you can safely keep. There are no privacy issues here at all.

...
The whole spectrum of the game theory involving miners goes deeper. Miners can be bribed to act in a way that would seem irrational at first, without knowing that there is a bribe going on.

Case in point: An attacker (let's call this Government A) bribes miners into mining at a loss, the chain of a fork, in order to push this fork as "the real Bitcoin on all major exchanges, which are also bribed by Government A, such as Coinbase et al. These miners seem to be mining a less valuable coin, but they are making more money doing so by accepting the bribes.

This is an attack on bitcoin, and this will explain when you see any miners mining segwit2x at a loss in the following weeks.

Bribes - maybe, quite possible too (I live right near the Putin's Russia, and bribery is the main type of economic activity there...

Now seriously.
Lord, bless the Bitcoin, as it is the golden ray of Freedom in the realm of lies, fakes, inflation, selfishness, injustice and slavery.

[xFiber]

-snip-

Miners mine for profit.

The whole spectrum of the game theory involving miners goes deeper. Miners can be bribed to act in a way that would seem irrational at first, without knowing that there is a bribe going on.

Case in point: An attacker (let's call this Government A) bribes miners into mining at a loss, the chain of a fork, in order to push this fork as "the real Bitcoin on all major exchanges, which are also bribed by Government A, such as Coinbase et al. These miners seem to be mining a less valuable coin, but they are making more money doing so by accepting the bribes.

This is an attack on bitcoin, and this will explain when you see any miners mining segwit2x at a loss in the following weeks.

That's actually a really interesting way to look at it. And it could very well be true. But how can we counter this? Should we all start running nodes that support core and reject blocks that were mined by miners with the 2x software? Would this help? Because large companies have stated they will support the chain with the most hashing power.

[interprog]

I've pretty much always had a full node since 2011. As well as talk about it everywhere heh. Grind the bitcoin cash for my friends who had no clue how.

I've been lazy lately but I'll make an effort.

Just went online with a full node on my Xeon 24/24 server hosting my company domain name, port forwarded obviously.

I'll copy the blockchain and have it run on a few other machine soonish as well. Using another IP and still port forwarded.

[Spendulus]

.....
Yes, that's right, I don't trust Trezor, and I certainly don't trust an SPV wallet no matter if it's called Electrum or anything else.

The HD wallet on Core cannot be generated through a seed, but since I don't know the details, I choose to stay under the old non HD format for now.

It's important to not get overly complicated or confused.

Here's the simplest way to create perfectly safe cold storage.

Load some wallet like Electrum or Core. Put some bitcoin in a single adress using this wallet. First a small amount, then a larger, then a larger still.

Verify that the coin is in the blockchain at the address.

Now make a backup of the wallet.dat, the seed words, the passphrases, and triple check that you have them right.

Delete the wallet, the blockchain, and the browser you used to check the blockchain.

You are now done. You have coin on the blockchain, and cold storage of the access methods (s).

Now build another wallet for incidental purchases.

It would be easy to maintain only 1 address in a cold storaged wallet, but this is very bad advice when it comes to maintaining privacy.

Ruling out Electrum, I would need to keep that 1-address wallet.dat file from Bitcoin Core. So everytime I send coins to my cold storage, they all would end up in a single address, which means it could be analized to find out how much BTC you own. You have to avoid this. You don't want a lot of BTC showing up on these "rich addresses" things (I don't have as much by any means, but it is still a mistake to do that privacy wise).

Also if you delete Bitcoin Core you couldn't test if your wallet.dat has been corrupted or not (files can corrupt over time).

I agree with your negative comments about sending everything to one address. Didn't occur to me...wish I had enough coin that that was a concern.

As for "telling if the wallet.dat has been corrupted," of course any backup file should be tested. Unless a backup is verified by testing, it can't be considered verified. Depends on the program too, of course. With electrum one has the passphrase, the word sequence, and the wallet file. With Core you only have the wallet file, and an encryption password, if that was used.

Very good points you raised.

[Bestcoin-fan]

The whole spectrum of the game theory involving miners goes deeper. Miners can be bribed to act in a way that would seem irrational at first, without knowing that there is a bribe going on.
Case in point: An attacker (let's call this Government A) bribes miners into mining at a loss, the chain of a fork, in order to push this fork as "the real Bitcoin on all major exchanges, which are also bribed by Government A, such as Coinbase et al. These miners seem to be mining a less valuable coin, but they are making more money doing so by accepting the bribes.
This is an attack on bitcoin, and this will explain when you see any miners mining segwit2x at a loss in the following weeks.

That's actually a really interesting way to look at it. And it could very well be true. But how can we counter this? Should we all start running nodes that support core and reject blocks that were mined by miners with the 2x software? Would this help? Because large companies have stated they will support the chain with the most hashing power.

xFiber, one thing I know for sure: it's better to try to do something than to do nothing at all.

If you can afford your own mining pool, then that's just great!
But if not, you should at least run your own Bitcoin Core full node.
I'll repeat, it is better to be doing at least something than just be passively sitting and waiting.

I've pretty much always had a full node since 2011. As well as talk about it everywhere heh. Grind the bitcoin cash for my friends who had no clue how.

I've been lazy lately but I'll make an effort.

Just went online with a full node on my Xeon 24/24 server hosting my company domain name, port forwarded obviously.

I'll copy the blockchain and have it run on a few other machine soonish as well. Using another IP and still port forwarded.

interprog, well done!

(look, the number of full Bitcoin Core nodes have raised pretty significantly recently, and that 2x miners' servant Garzik has had to increase the number of his fake btc1 nodes too.
It is not so hard for everyone to start (at least) one full node, as it is for Garzik to start hundreds of his false btc1 nodes

[somac.]

In order to show my support for the core team (who are the guys who got us here in the first place, not the btc1 team) I have started running a bitcoin node. It is very easy, and in effect is a way of voting, just holding btc is not enough, vote by running a full core listening node.

I started this thread yesterday https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2360608.msg24062765#msg24062765

It is good to spread the word as much as you can.

[DooMAD]

as https://coin.dance/poli is showing now for example if I understand it right (I looked not into the right page, sorry, see my next post)

That's an important consideration as well, though.  It probably tips the scales in favour of the current chain, meaning that even though 2x might end up with more miner support initially, it almost certainly won't have as much business and economic support.  As I said, this isn't just about what some miners are doing, it's about what everyone participating in the Bitcoin network does.  It's about which chain provides the most incentive to actually use.

As an example, if loads of payment processors, merchants and other businesses end up deciding to not support 2x, then 2x probably won't provide enough incentive for the average user to transact.  Users want to be able to spend their coins and they can't do that if most companies won't accept them as payment.  If users aren't transacting on the 2x chain, then as a result, miners will earn more fees on the current chain, so they'd go back to that and forget about 2x.

An attacker (let's call this Government A) bribes miners into mining at a loss, the chain of a fork, in order to push this fork as "the real Bitcoin on all major exchanges, which are also bribed by Government A, such as Coinbase et al. These miners seem to be mining a less valuable coin, but they are making more money doing so by accepting the bribes.

This is an attack on bitcoin, and this will explain when you see any miners mining segwit2x at a loss in the following weeks.

Or, it could just be that miners have done the math and have worked out that a short term period of mining at a loss is worth the risk if it means they had the potential to reap anything up to double the amount of fees they currently collect once transaction volumes rise.  There are many possible explanations, not just that one.  It's also worth noting that each miner will be doing their own sums based on their own personal overheads and costs, so it won't be the same calculation for all of them.  But the basic formula is pretty simple, more transactions means the potential for more fees.  A tempting prospect for any miner.  It doesn't always have to be a government conspiracy.

[Bestcoin-fan]

as https://coin.dance/poli is showing now for example if I understand it right (I looked not into the right page, sorry, see my next post)

That's an important consideration as well, though.  It probably tips the scales in favour of the current chain, meaning that even though 2x might end up with more miner support initially, it almost certainly won't have as much business and economic support.  As I said, this isn't just about what some miners are doing, it's about what everyone participating in the Bitcoin network does.  It's about which chain provides the most incentive to actually use.

As an example, if loads of payment processors, merchants and other businesses end up deciding to not support 2x, then 2x probably won't provide enough incentive for the average user to transact.  Users want to be able to spend their coins and they can't do that if most companies won't accept them as payment.  If users aren't transacting on the 2x chain, then as a result, miners will earn more fees on the current chain, so they'd go back to that and forget about 2x.
..

I'll repeat, Lord, Bless the Bitcoin!
For me, it symbolizes true freedom, independence and hope to finally get out of poverty!
Since, personally, I live in a poverty-stricken, totalitarian country where the standard of living is extremely low, corruption is rampant, and the evil state strangles citizens with taxes, fees and bans

[Spendulus]

as https://coin.dance/poli is showing now for example if I understand it right (I looked not into the right page, sorry, see my next post)

That's an important consideration as well, though.  It probably tips the scales in favour of the current chain, meaning that even though 2x might end up with more miner support initially, it almost certainly won't have as much business and economic support.  As I said, this isn't just about what some miners are doing, it's about what everyone participating in the Bitcoin network does.  It's about which chain provides the most incentive to actually use.

As an example, if loads of payment processors, merchants and other businesses end up deciding to not support 2x, then 2x probably won't provide enough incentive for the average user to transact.  Users want to be able to spend their coins and they can't do that if most companies won't accept them as payment.  If users aren't transacting on the 2x chain, then as a result, miners will earn more fees on the current chain, so they'd go back to that and forget about 2x.
..

I'll repeat, Lord, Bless the Bitcoin!
For me, it symbolizes true freedom, independence and hope to finally get out of poverty!
Since, personally, I live in a poverty-stricken, totalitarian country where the standard of living is extremely low, corruption is rampant, and the evil state strangles citizens with taxes, fees and bans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEQ2nPSL5-0

[Bestcoin-fan]

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEQ2nPSL5-0

Great song, thanks   
(I did not understand all the words, yet I caught the general meaning 

[Spendulus]

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEQ2nPSL5-0

Great song, thanks   
(I did not understand all the words, yet I caught the general meaning 

Good point, that had not occurred to me.

This song is not available with text lyrics, but if you want it I'll provide.

[nik1211]

i used to run core, but im worried about the 2x fork and what that means

will the 2x take over existing BTC chain? or will there be separate chain for the 2x fork?

[Bestcoin-fan]

This song is not available with text lyrics, but if you want it I'll provide.

If it is not difficult for you, it'd be interesting

[Bestcoin-fan]

i used to run core, but im worried about the 2x fork and what that means

will the 2x take over existing BTC chain? or will there be separate chain for the 2x fork?

Don't worry too much. All must be fine.

If you can run Bitcoin core full node now, then it'd be very good if you start running it again

[Spendulus]

..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEQ2nPSL5-0

I would also like to dedicate this song to the great American freedom fighter and songwriter, Mr. Pete Singer. May he rest in peace. I would also like to dedicate this song to Andreas Antonapolis for his words of wisdom and hope for us all

Now climb aboard you all, 
this train is bound for glory
And there’s plenty of room for all.

Now satoshi Nakamoto,
that’s the name I love to say
And  we don’t know much about him
But he came to save the day.

When he wrote about the way things are
 and the way things ought to be
He gave us all a protocal
This world had never seen.

Oh bitcoin,
as your going into the old block chain
Oh bitcoin, I know your going to reign -
gonna reign

Till everybody knows
everybody knows
Till everybody knows your name.

Down the road it will be told
About the death of old Mt. Gox
About traders trading altercoins
And miners mining blocks.

But those good old boys back in Illinois
and down to Tennessee
They didn’t care to be a millionaire
They just wanted to be free.

Oh bitcoin
As your going into the old blockchain
Oh bitcoin - I know your going to reign
Gonna reign.

Till everybody knows
everybody knows
Till everybody knows your name.

From the ghettos of Calcutta
to the halls of Parliament
Well the bankers count our money out
for every government.

Oh Bitcoin flies on thru the skies of virtuality
A promise to deliver us
From age old tyranny.

Oh bit coin
as you go into the old block chain
Oh bitcoin
I know your going to reign
going to reign

Till everybody knows
everybody knows
Till everybody knows your name

Till everybody knows
everybody knows
Till everybody knows
(Give me some exposure)
Everybody knows your name

oh lord, pass me some more
Before I have to go
oh lord, pass me some more
oh lord, before I have to go

Thank you East Nashville
You all be good to each other you hear

[Bestcoin-fan]

Great! Thank you very much! 

[Spendulus]

Great! Thank you very much! 

Then there is the prescient, great Zhou Tonged.

Look at this from 2013. He said it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pID03RrmKow

[Bestcoin-fan]

Great! Thank you very much! 

Then there is the prescient, great Zhou Tonged.

Look at this from 2013. He said it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pID03RrmKow

Yes, smart and visionary guy!