PRISM - Who else is disgusted by this?

[tvbcof]

I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.

There is a certain amount of new stuff in Snowden's material.  More than that, however, a lot of the previously leaked/proposed material had to be taken with a certain degree of skepticism since it was mixed in with other material which was/is likely pure tinfoil-hat.  What Snowden's releases did was provide high quality verifiable information and a lot of it.  Orders of magnitude beyond what any other whistle-blower has done probably in the history of the US.  It was a singularly important event, and even more so due to the engineering of the material's release which has been very professional and highly effective.

Lots of people (like myself) who were fairly confident that certain of the surveillance operations were in place due to repeated strengthening of certain hypotheses are still somewhat awestruck to see things laid out as they have been.  I would take a victory lap except that I long ago stopped giving much of a shit about what my more proper straight-laced compadres (like Gavin) think.

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[hawkeye]

I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.

There is a certain amount of new stuff in Snowden's material.  More than that, however, a lot of the previously leaked/proposed material had to be taken with a certain degree of skepticism since it was mixed in with other material which was/is likely pure tinfoil-hat.  What Snowden's releases did was provide high quality verifiable information and a lot of it.  Orders of magnitude beyond what any other whistle-blower has done probably in the history of the US.  It was a singularly important event, and even more so due to the engineering of the material's release which has been very professional and highly effective.

The point is, it's irrelevant.  When you look at all the crimes that people in the government commit, all the killing and deliberate destruction in other countries, all the counterfeiting at the Fed, bailouts for bankers.  All these things that if you or I did it we would be sitting in a jail cell, then something like this comes along and it's no surprise to me.  Just more crimes to add on the top of all the existing ones. 

It's actually quite amazing to me that people have kicked up such a fuss about it, considering what's gone on before.  But I put that down to the bad economy.  If things were going great, most people wouldn't have cared much about this and the news cycle would have just moved on without much fanfare.

Facts are that the majority of people desperately want to believe that the govt are there to help.  Like I said, the economy is all most people care about.  If it isn't going well, they will use any excuse to complain to their masters because they don't understand how economics works and so can't grasp the true situation.

[Spendulus]

I hope nobody is surprised.

That says it all really.  If you are surprised by this, then you just haven't been paying attention.

There is a certain amount of new stuff in Snowden's material.  More than that, however, a lot of the previously leaked/proposed material had to be taken with a certain degree of skepticism since it was mixed in with other material which was/is likely pure tinfoil-hat.  What Snowden's releases did was provide high quality verifiable information and a lot of it.  Orders of magnitude beyond what any other whistle-blower has done probably in the history of the US.  It was a singularly important event, and even more so due to the engineering of the material's release which has been very professional and highly effective.

The point is, it's irrelevant.  When you look at all the crimes that people in the government commit, all the killing and deliberate destruction in other countries, all the counterfeiting at the Fed, bailouts for bankers.  All these things that if you or I did it we would be sitting in a jail cell, then something like this comes along and it's no surprise to me.  Just more crimes to add on the top of all the existing ones.  

It's actually quite amazing to me that people have kicked up such a fuss about it, considering what's gone on before.  But I put that down to the bad economy.  If things were going great, most people wouldn't have cared much about this and the news cycle would have just moved on without much fanfare.

Facts are that the majority of people desperately want to believe that the govt are there to help.  Like I said, the economy is all most people care about.  If it isn't going well, they will use any excuse to complain to their masters because they don't understand how economics works and so can't grasp the true situation.

Well, no.  Because if we take your reductionist philosophy of "irrelevancy" anything can be justified anytime, anyplace.

That's no different that the whiny libertarians who voted for "hope and change" now saying that "both parties are just as bad".  That's being not a fool once, but twice.  

And here is how the political benefits result from using different attitudes at different times:

hope and change - D +1 R -1
both parties are just as bad - D 0 R 0

The net benefit and the net change in power is D. 

But then, libertarians have always been played for the fool.

[NewLiberty]

So, we will continue to be considered by most people we know to be paranoid extremists, who have something illegal to hide... We'll just do our usual best, with the hope that we can some day become the majority.

I have nothing to hide, but I have a much to protect.

[Spendulus]

So, we will continue to be considered by most people we know to be paranoid extremists, who have something illegal to hide... We'll just do our usual best, with the hope that we can some day become the majority.

I have nothing to hide, but I have a much to protect.

Change is always the result of a radical minority.

There is no reason or need to wish such to be a majority.

[CoinsForTech]

NSA gathering 5 billion mobile phone records a day

As if phone tapping wasn't intrusive enough, they are tracking the location over 100,000,000 mobile phones every day by recording which cell towers you connect to. This has got to stop.

Here is a good explination of how you're getting tracked right now.

[NewLiberty]

NSA gathering 5 billion mobile phone records a day

As if phone tapping wasn't intrusive enough, they are tracking the location over 100,000,000 mobile phones every day by recording which cell towers you connect to. This has got to stop.

Here is a good explination of how you're getting tracked right now.

10th Amendment center comes to the rescue of the 4th Amendment.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16656-tenth-amendment-center-drafts-model-legislation-to-nullify-the-nsa

[chowderman]

PRISM +1

If you criminal scum and anarchist tards didnt have shit to hide you would not be so butt hurt. Learn to live within the law of the land and prosper by it.

[Sindelar1938]

Everyone is disgusted but what are we gonna do about it?

[cryptasm]

PRISM +1
If you criminal scum and anarchist tards didnt have shit to hide you would not be so butt hurt. Learn to live within the law of the land and prosper by it.

Hey shit-for-brains, if the spy agencies followed the law of the land, they would be allowed to have a global surveillance state.

[cryptasm]

Spy agencies in covert push to infiltrate virtual world of online gaming

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/nsa-spies-online-games-world-warcraft-second-life

"The spy agencies have built mass-collection capabilities against the Xbox Live console network, which has more than 48 million players. Real-life agents have been deployed into virtual realms, from those Orc hordes in World of Warcraft to the human avatars of Second Life. There were attempts, too, to recruit potential informants from the games' tech-friendly users".

"Given that gaming consoles often include voice headsets, video cameras, and other identifiers, the potential for joining together biometric information with activities was also an exciting one.

[Nik1ab]

PRISM +1

If you criminal scum and anarchist tards didnt have shit to hide you would not be so butt hurt. Learn to live within the law of the land and prosper by it.

You should kill yourself.

[hieroglyph]

I'm beyond disgusted with this spy nonsense.  It shouldn't even be up for discussion and anyone who thinks it is acceptable should be spied on and targeted for investigation.

[tvbcof]

I'm beyond disgusted with this spy nonsense.  It shouldn't even be up for discussion and anyone who thinks it is acceptable should be spied on and targeted for investigation.

I would like to see all data which is collected made public after a time period.  Say 1 quarter.  Exceptions could be granted by a body made up of elected representatives.

This would:

 1) Go a huge distance toward discouraging collection of spurious data.

 2) Allow the small number of collections which are actually used for 'fighting terrorism' or whatever to proceed.

I also believe that it is perfectly reasonable for law abiding citizens to obtain ALL the data contained in their dossier on request.  There are relatively few secrets left about the nature and extent of the surveillance methods used so that argument for keeping secret dossiers on lawful citizens is out the window.

This might have some impact on the capabilities and potentials which our internal intelligence services desire, but in my opinion it is a very reasonable trade-off.  The potential for abuse in a surveillance state is enormous.  It's really not a question about whether this abuse will happen or not...the only question is when.  We in the U.S. are already to far down the road.  I don't think it is an overstatement to say that the life of the nation in it's current form is at significant question unless we go father than simply halting the trend but also back up significantly.