Any Upcoming Start-ups?

[americandesi]

MtGox, the largest exchange, charges less than 0.60%

The volume that we are expecting is nothing in comparison to the volume that mtgox gets. Add to it the cost of setting up and running a MSB in India and the costs shoot up dramatically. With people charging 10-20% over mtgox rates in India, a commission anywhere near the 5% mark should come as a relief to many.

People advertise with mtgox + 10% but hardly anyone buys with those rates except the newbies.
Most of them offer to pay the rates based on btc-e.

Secondly, make sure you do your homework. buysellbitco.in is one of the guys to reachout to. he has been here for a while and had his share of troubles.

With the advantage that i have (dual citizenship of USA and INDIA), I also worked for a few months to start a legit exchange with its offices in both USA and India, spent money on lawyers and attorneys and finally on the verge of giving it up. Setting up the USA part is easy, but RBI rules and so rigid that there is hardly any allowance to squeeze something like bitcoin.

Word of advise : (1) do your homework on how your exchange should work (2) spend lots of time with your lawyers going through all the test cases. (3) make sure your platform is rock solid and hacker safe. (Pls note, anyone who understands how crypto currency works is himself a script kiddie hacker.)
(4) If you need help or get struck, reach out to the community.. there are some really nice people out here and we will definitely help you out.

[Benson Samuel]

Something cool that I had noticed in most other local communities is that they are ruthless in starting up.

No regulations, etc even matter at this stage apart form money conversion and even that has got several workarounds based on limits, etc.

If our community can get a bit more ruthless and enable/ support/ help any legit business that comes up, I am sure that we can grow way faster in India.

[buysellbitcoin]

MSB in India

What is that ?

Money service Business. Nice to see a Bitcoin service, being called one.

I hope we do not need apply for the same in 50 states in US.

On serious note, there is no msb license as far as I know. You need to register with fincen ( or may be even states). But that is related to USA.

If we are talking about India, you don't need msb registration, For sure :-)

Cheers

[buysellbitcoin]

Something cool that I had noticed in most other local communities is that they are ruthless in starting up.

No regulations, etc even matter at this stage apart form money conversion and even that has got several workarounds based on limits, etc.

If our community can get a bit more ruthless and enable/ support/ help any legit business that comes up, I am sure that we can grow way faster in India.

Really cant agree more with you here.

Cheers

[escrow.ms]

Make sure to do your homework, just some days ago 22 banks got penalized by RBI for violating KYC norms.
http://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/rbi-penalises-22-banks-kyc-slips-183000847.html

[americandesi]

Make sure to do your homework, just some days ago 22 banks got penalized by RBI for violating KYC norms.
http://in.finance.yahoo.com/news/rbi-penalises-22-banks-kyc-slips-183000847.html

Yes i was closely following on this topic. And RBI was ruthless. Nothing was confirmed and still a penalty was imposed.

[americandesi]

Something cool that I had noticed in most other local communities is that they are ruthless in starting up.

No regulations, etc even matter at this stage apart form money conversion and even that has got several workarounds based on limits, etc.

If our community can get a bit more ruthless and enable/ support/ help any legit business that comes up, I am sure that we can grow way faster in India.

I partly agree with you here Benson. But again, once you start getting the volumes, if your startup is dependent on the banking infrastructure, then yes you have to start thinking about it well in advance.

If your startup can survive independent of the Indian authorities, then you don't even have to bother about the rules and regulations initially.
For instance, taking btc exchange as an example, other countries have some internationally accepted modes of payments like Online Fund Transfer abroad, ACH, WU and MG by which the exchange can flawlessly operate initially until the paperwork is completed. (example : buying and selling through coinbase exchange)

AFAIK, in India even paypal has to comply with RBI regulations and the payments received to that paypal account has to be withdrawn to the local bank at the end of everyday. That makes our situation a tad more diff than the start ups in other countries.

[Benson Samuel]

Something cool that I had noticed in most other local communities is that they are ruthless in starting up.

No regulations, etc even matter at this stage apart form money conversion and even that has got several workarounds based on limits, etc.

If our community can get a bit more ruthless and enable/ support/ help any legit business that comes up, I am sure that we can grow way faster in India.

I partly agree with you here Benson. But again, once you start getting the volumes, if your startup is dependent on the banking infrastructure, then yes you have to start thinking about it well in advance.

If your startup can survive independent of the Indian authorities, then you don't even have to bother about the rules and regulations initially.
For instance, taking btc exchange as an example, other countries have some internationally accepted modes of payments like Online Fund Transfer abroad, ACH, WU and MG by which the exchange can flawlessly operate initially until the paperwork is completed. (example : buying and selling through coinbase exchange)

AFAIK, in India even paypal has to comply with RBI regulations and the payments received to that paypal account has to be withdrawn to the local bank at the end of everyday. That makes our situation a tad more diff than the start ups in other countries.

Well, there is nothing out officially as yet mate.. We need to grow merchant acceptance before we can challenge anything.
Without startups and places to link into/ spend money at, there will be no merchant acceptance or growth.
Without that, there is no case to present to anyone. This stems the growth factor.

buysellbitco.in, madovercoins.com, coinmonk.com, indiabitcoin.com, inrbtc.com, etc are really the pillars of our community in India. These are not enough cases to persuade a country/ bank/ company/ individual to adopt.

Any thoughts?

[escrow.ms]

I partly agree with you here Benson. But again, once you start getting the volumes, if your startup is dependent on the banking infrastructure, then yes you have to start thinking about it well in advance.

If your startup can survive independent of the Indian authorities, then you don't even have to bother about the rules and regulations initially.
For instance, taking btc exchange as an example, other countries have some internationally accepted modes of payments like Online Fund Transfer abroad, ACH, WU and MG by which the exchange can flawlessly operate initially until the paperwork is completed. (example : buying and selling through coinbase exchange)

AFAIK, in India even paypal has to comply with RBI regulations and the payments received to that paypal account has to be withdrawn to the local bank at the end of everyday. That makes our situation a tad more diff than the start ups in other countries.

That's true it's not easy to setup a Money related business easily in india.

I'm not sure but i think exchange needs to get licence under "Pre-paid Payment Instruments" or Cross border Money Transfer to do deal with international customers.

Both licence needs alot money.

[Benson Samuel]

I partly agree with you here Benson. But again, once you start getting the volumes, if your startup is dependent on the banking infrastructure, then yes you have to start thinking about it well in advance.

If your startup can survive independent of the Indian authorities, then you don't even have to bother about the rules and regulations initially.
For instance, taking btc exchange as an example, other countries have some internationally accepted modes of payments like Online Fund Transfer abroad, ACH, WU and MG by which the exchange can flawlessly operate initially until the paperwork is completed. (example : buying and selling through coinbase exchange)

AFAIK, in India even paypal has to comply with RBI regulations and the payments received to that paypal account has to be withdrawn to the local bank at the end of everyday. That makes our situation a tad more diff than the start ups in other countries.

That's true it's not easy to setup a Money related business easily in india.

I'm not sure but i think exchange needs to get licence under "Pre-paid Payment Instruments" or Cross border Money Transfer to do deal with international customers.

Both licence needs alot money.

You need an OK from SEBI and RBI to go ahead. Buy this is more of a commodity exchange as Bitcoin is a commodity/ currency.
I do not believe that commodity exchanges are regulated in India, apart from Rubber, Sandalwood and some other listed items.

[inrbtcad]

Something cool that I had noticed in most other local communities is that they are ruthless in starting up.

No regulations, etc even matter at this stage apart form money conversion and even that has got several workarounds based on limits, etc.

If our community can get a bit more ruthless and enable/ support/ help any legit business that comes up, I am sure that we can grow way faster in India.

I partly agree with you here Benson. But again, once you start getting the volumes, if your startup is dependent on the banking infrastructure, then yes you have to start thinking about it well in advance.

If your startup can survive independent of the Indian authorities, then you don't even have to bother about the rules and regulations initially.
For instance, taking btc exchange as an example, other countries have some internationally accepted modes of payments like Online Fund Transfer abroad, ACH, WU and MG by which the exchange can flawlessly operate initially until the paperwork is completed. (example : buying and selling through coinbase exchange)

AFAIK, in India even paypal has to comply with RBI regulations and the payments received to that paypal account has to be withdrawn to the local bank at the end of everyday. That makes our situation a tad more diff than the start ups in other countries.

Well, there is nothing out officially as yet mate.. We need to grow merchant acceptance before we can challenge anything.
Without startups and places to link into/ spend money at, there will be no merchant acceptance or growth.
Without that, there is no case to present to anyone. This stems the growth factor.

buysellbitco.in, madovercoins.com, coinmonk.com, indiabitcoin.com, inrbtc.com, etc are really the pillars of our community in India. These are not enough cases to persuade a country/ bank/ company/ individual to adopt.

Any thoughts?

I would like to add a few words on the ruthless part.  If you think you have an idea. Go ahead implement and execute it. The license and the registration part comes later. Test your idea, get the feedback...tweak your process.  Any country and not just in India, any business attracts attention when you cross a limit. Even in India, unless you cross 40 - 50 lakhs turnover per year...you can run your business without interference from regulatory bodies.  It Bitcoin services as a business picks up, one of us from here will get a welcome call from the regulatory body. We as a community can then come together get those things sorted out.  We can pool our resources to hire a lawyer or anything which might be needed.

We can freely share our experiences dealing with those agencies, as a group we will add to bitcoin community in India. The first call from any agency is a welcome call because then we know that bitcoin has attracted their attention.


My experience from running INRBTC. So far I have not faced any problems with the Banks.  The volume on a per day basis is still below Rs 1 lakh. I  am not using any cash channels, all the business is done through NEFT only.  Some customers who transact regularly have complained about filling the form regularly even though we already have their banking details. 

To overcome that we now have a facility where they can send their bitcoins to a designated address and amount will be deposited in their bank account by end of day.  This facility is now being further tweaked. Though I cannot say that it will be payment gateway in a full sense, merchants in India can now get their customers bitcoins sent to their specific address and the amount will be deposited in their bank accounts daily.

My experience so far is ...the volumes are low....test your ideas...if it not fully automated...make a semi automated setup...but the get service out. the true validator of your business are the customers not the regulatory agencies.

[Benson Samuel]

+1

[inrbtcad]

+1

   Though this is not the relevant thread...cannot help saying these few words...

A few days after starting INRBTC, Benson took efforts to contact me, we had a detailed discussion, rather than a discussion , I would call it as a education received from Benson.  Then Buysellbitco.in shared his experiences in running his service. I can say that just from talking to these individuals, I modified a few things on how I run INRBTC based on these discussions and rest came from the customers.


I often see these two adding a lot of value and few other members also. I can now only share my experiences of running INRBTC and so far i can say that if you read eveything in this forum, you might not need more education to start a bitcoin service in India. 

[devansh1991]

  The volume on a per day basis is still below Rs 1 lakh. I  am not using any cash channels, all the business is done through NEFT only.
Though I cannot say that it will be payment gateway in a full sense, merchants in India can now get their customers bitcoins sent to their specific address and the amount will be deposited in their bank accounts daily.

My experience so far is ...the volumes are low....test your ideas...if it not fully automated...make a semi automated setup...but the get service out. the true validator of your business are the customers not the regulatory agencies.

1) What is stopping you from setting up a payment gateway?

2) Would i be wrong to say that 50 coins change hand every day in India?

[inrbtcad]

  The volume on a per day basis is still below Rs 1 lakh. I  am not using any cash channels, all the business is done through NEFT only.
Though I cannot say that it will be payment gateway in a full sense, merchants in India can now get their customers bitcoins sent to their specific address and the amount will be deposited in their bank accounts daily.

My experience so far is ...the volumes are low....test your ideas...if it not fully automated...make a semi automated setup...but the get service out. the true validator of your business are the customers not the regulatory agencies.

1) What is stopping you from setting up a payment gateway?

2) Would i be wrong to say that 50 coins change hand every day in India?

1) We will be announcing this service in less than a month.

2) at INRBTC the avg volume per day is 10 bitcoins that too because we only buy bitcoins for now. Buysellbitco.in can give a better picture.

[buysellbitcoin]

  The volume on a per day basis is still below Rs 1 lakh. I  am not using any cash channels, all the business is done through NEFT only.
Though I cannot say that it will be payment gateway in a full sense, merchants in India can now get their customers bitcoins sent to their specific address and the amount will be deposited in their bank accounts daily.

My experience so far is ...the volumes are low....test your ideas...if it not fully automated...make a semi automated setup...but the get service out. the true validator of your business are the customers not the regulatory agencies.

1) What is stopping you from setting up a payment gateway?

2) Would i be wrong to say that 50 coins change hand every day in India?

1) Payment gateway, means you want shops to accept bitcoin via processor you provide them, like bitpay ? Well, nothing stops you for doing that as far as I can think. The only thing is will it justify the cost you will incur for the infrastructure and running these operations ? Frankly speaking it will not at least now. There are three types of major bitcoin users in India and operating in India
a) Who speculate and  invest it for future, holding their breath that it will some day go to sky and they will be able to book profit.
b) Those who mine and want to sell as long as they are making some profit as per the BTC rates
c) Middleman like us, Bit_India and lot more who works as meeting point for a and b and gets their cut

There are several other minor users in India
x) Traders. They do not operate in India. They directly work with MtGox, Bitstamp and X, Y, Z. But normally does not worrk with C in above. Why ? Well the % cut of c in India is a bit ted high for them and they can not justify it. They do a good volume, more than 50 BTC for sure. If you want to open exchange try to eye them. It will be very hard for you to get them in as they are used to work with liquidity which will be chicken egg problem for you.
y) Buyers. This segment buys bitcoin to purchase something I dont know about their numbers as they do not want to get verified.
z) Hobbyists. They know about bitcoin and want to do something about it and own some bitcoins. They normally do not take part in trading etc and they are not the segment you should look at. They are good for brain storming and getting help.

Try to find out the best customer segment to pitch for payment gateway.

2) 50 BTC.. If you want monthly average it is surely more than 1500 BTC Let me give you hint BTC goes down you get buyers, BTC goes up you get sellers.

Cheers

[buysellbitcoin]

  The volume on a per day basis is still below Rs 1 lakh. I  am not using any cash channels, all the business is done through NEFT only.
Though I cannot say that it will be payment gateway in a full sense, merchants in India can now get their customers bitcoins sent to their specific address and the amount will be deposited in their bank accounts daily.

My experience so far is ...the volumes are low....test your ideas...if it not fully automated...make a semi automated setup...but the get service out. the true validator of your business are the customers not the regulatory agencies.

1) What is stopping you from setting up a payment gateway?

2) Would i be wrong to say that 50 coins change hand every day in India?

1) We will be announcing this service in less than a month.

2) at INRBTC the avg volume per day is 10 bitcoins that too because we only buy bitcoins for now. Buysellbitco.in can give a better picture.

1) Awesome.. Feel free to ask any help needed. That is brave step but someone has to start and I appreciate you are trying for that. We need at least some AB test going by bow

2) That is good volume you are generating and I am sure you will be able to do more as people nowadays are using more and more online shopping in India. Your service is much needed to stay as it actually adds some value to economy. Only buying and selling will not help Bitcoin much in India.

Cheers

[worldinacoin]

India has an extremely strong IT industry would be much easier to start any Bitcoin projects in India.

[escrow.ms]

India has an extremely strong IT industry would be much easier to start any Bitcoin projects in India.

That's true

[devansh1991]

2) 50 BTC.. If you want monthly average it is surely more than 1500 BTC Let me give you hint BTC goes down you get buyers, BTC goes up you get sellers.

In an exchange isnt the No. of buyers= No of sellers.
buysellbitco essentially buys from users and then sells them instead of acting as a middleman. Am i correct?