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Author Topic: My personal idea of what will make bitcoin grow very fast.  (Read 3165 times)
killer2021
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June 27, 2011, 09:09:42 AM
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It is this: Making it very easy for people to buy and sell items through the use of cell phones. The fact of the matter is that most of the world DOES NOT have internet access. However, they do have a cell phone. There are 6.7 billion people on earth. 5 billion of those people have a cell phone. Now if we want bitcoin to be big and change the world then we have to make it so its easy to conduct commerce using a cell phone and bitcoins.

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ableorange
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June 27, 2011, 09:20:51 AM
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Agree

& we need more exchanges.

& exchanges for things with value, stocks, real estate, food, water, oil,
killer2021
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June 27, 2011, 09:29:40 AM
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Agree

& we need more exchanges.

& exchanges for things with value, stocks, real estate, food, water, oil,

all will come with time.

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June 27, 2011, 09:39:22 AM
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yes, I think so too
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June 27, 2011, 12:59:32 PM
 #5

It is this: Making it very easy for people to buy and sell items through the use of cell phones. The fact of the matter is that most of the world DOES NOT have internet access. However, they do have a cell phone. There are 6.7 billion people on earth. 5 billion of those people have a cell phone. Now if we want bitcoin to be big and change the world then we have to make it so its easy to conduct commerce using a cell phone and bitcoins.

wat.  if u have a cell phone you have internet access.  and isn't that basically exactly what you're saying?

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June 27, 2011, 01:09:41 PM
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Maybe he means like an online wallet you can access with SMS.

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June 27, 2011, 02:23:38 PM
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This is not your 'personal' idea, it's obvious and has been discussed before.  Even credit card companies are doing cell transactions.  What makes bitcoins attractive here is that a regular person could exchange them without the ridiculous transaction costs.
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June 27, 2011, 02:58:42 PM
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In a few years I see this being possible but right now the bitcoin client has to download ~300mb of data via a P2P network which is a bit much for your average smartphone. No doubt soon it will be possible.

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June 27, 2011, 03:00:40 PM
 #9

It is this: Making it very easy for people to buy and sell items through the use of cell phones. The fact of the matter is that most of the world DOES NOT have internet access. However, they do have a cell phone. There are 6.7 billion people on earth. 5 billion of those people have a cell phone. Now if we want bitcoin to be big and change the world then we have to make it so its easy to conduct commerce using a cell phone and bitcoins.

wat.  if u have a cell phone you have internet access.  and isn't that basically exactly what you're saying?


Don't think so, he's talking about internet-less dumbphones, which is still what most people have in the world. You know, the ones use use to actually call or text and nothing more. So I agree, if there is a way to make a system that would let you pay and accept payments with sms or a calls, it would definitely help in developing countries (which could have potential due to very inflationary currency). Bur I don't know if it's technically possible.  

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June 27, 2011, 03:37:50 PM
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We also need to make it easy to fund and withdraw money.  The amount of wait time for the fund to clear makes the market illiquid.
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June 27, 2011, 03:59:28 PM
 #11

In a few years I see this being possible but right now the bitcoin client has to download ~300mb of data via a P2P network which is a bit much for your average smartphone. No doubt soon it will be possible.

We could by pass this on the basis of a client that takes a copy of wallet.dat and handles it on the smart phone. Basically my understanding of the client is that you primary update the blockchain to allow transactions to your address be updated along with your balance...but this info in the blockchain anyway, and you could sync your wallet occasionally instead.

Hrrmmm......
[IDEA]
Along with encrypted wallet feature in future client, add a frame work that allows a secure wallet export and sync to mobile device.


Others here have a far better sense of how it all works and if what I'm saying is feasible, but if it is.....then we can post it at github as a suggestion for future clients.
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June 28, 2011, 07:23:56 PM
 #12

In a few years I see this being possible but right now the bitcoin client has to download ~300mb of data via a P2P network which is a bit much for your average smartphone. No doubt soon it will be possible.

We could by pass this on the basis of a client that takes a copy of wallet.dat and handles it on the smart phone. Basically my understanding of the client is that you primary update the blockchain to allow transactions to your address be updated along with your balance...but this info in the blockchain anyway, and you could sync your wallet occasionally instead.

Hrrmmm......
[IDEA]
Along with encrypted wallet feature in future client, add a frame work that allows a secure wallet export and sync to mobile device.


Others here have a far better sense of how it all works and if what I'm saying is feasible, but if it is.....then we can post it at github as a suggestion for future clients.

there is at least one major problem with this:
say we would use two dumbphones with bluetooth (or IR, w/e kind of communication that doesnt need internet or SMS)
so both owners would load theyr wallet.dat on theyr phone
person A buys a beer off person B, and transfers X BTC to person B
thats your idea, right?

now, the current system works becouse person A's wallet.dat will update a block, and delivers that info to the network. the network then verifies this new info (did that specific wallet have X BTC from that block?) and then tells person B's client that the transfer is OK

now, with 2 offline dumbphones, person A could upload a modified/old/otherwise tampered wallet.dat and pay person B with BTC that dont exist/are already spent

person B wont know that, untill he syncs the wallet.dat at home, after wich person A is long gone


paying with mobile phones are ofc the future, but we do need everyone to have internet for it, otherwise its just not safe enough

also, the confirmation time needs to go down, becouse if person A had to wait 5 min~5H for his beer, it wouldnt go very smooth

as for the massive block count: we could use cloud computing for that (use the BTC client on your own computer through the internet for example)

YoYa
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June 28, 2011, 08:24:45 PM
 #13

In a few years I see this being possible but right now the bitcoin client has to download ~300mb of data via a P2P network which is a bit much for your average smartphone. No doubt soon it will be possible.

We could by pass this on the basis of a client that takes a copy of wallet.dat and handles it on the smart phone. Basically my understanding of the client is that you primary update the blockchain to allow transactions to your address be updated along with your balance...but this info in the blockchain anyway, and you could sync your wallet occasionally instead.

Hrrmmm......
[IDEA]
Along with encrypted wallet feature in future client, add a frame work that allows a secure wallet export and sync to mobile device.


Others here have a far better sense of how it all works and if what I'm saying is feasible, but if it is.....then we can post it at github as a suggestion for future clients.

there is at least one major problem with this:
say we would use two dumbphones with bluetooth (or IR, w/e kind of communication that doesnt need internet or SMS)
so both owners would load theyr wallet.dat on theyr phone
person A buys a beer off person B, and transfers X BTC to person B
thats your idea, right?

now, the current system works becouse person A's wallet.dat will update a block, and delivers that info to the network. the network then verifies this new info (did that specific wallet have X BTC from that block?) and then tells person B's client that the transfer is OK

now, with 2 offline dumbphones, person A could upload a modified/old/otherwise tampered wallet.dat and pay person B with BTC that dont exist/are already spent

person B wont know that, untill he syncs the wallet.dat at home, after wich person A is long gone


paying with mobile phones are ofc the future, but we do need everyone to have internet for it, otherwise its just not safe enough

also, the confirmation time needs to go down, becouse if person A had to wait 5 min~5H for his beer, it wouldnt go very smooth

as for the massive block count: we could use cloud computing for that (use the BTC client on your own computer through the internet for example)
Not quite how your thinking it, but I can see what you mean. In terms of dumb offline systems a bit bill style system would be needed, but....this leads exactly to the issue you mention, in that you see a transaction signed to your public address with theirs and their private key, but until it auth's against the blockchain, you have no idea in hell if it will go through or not. Others are seeking offline systems, but to be honest....I think there will have to be network connectivity at a minimum...that said tho....  Smiley There's no reason sms couldn't be used for this purpose, reducing the need for actual packet data.

And your idea about using accessing the block chain through the cloud is exactly what I'm thinking.

You know....the idea of SMS might have some merit after all, something to chew on for a bit. Cheers.
RomertL
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June 28, 2011, 10:42:19 PM
 #14

In a few years I see this being possible but right now the bitcoin client has to download ~300mb of data via a P2P network which is a bit much for your average smartphone. No doubt soon it will be possible.

We could by pass this on the basis of a client that takes a copy of wallet.dat and handles it on the smart phone. Basically my understanding of the client is that you primary update the blockchain to allow transactions to your address be updated along with your balance...but this info in the blockchain anyway, and you could sync your wallet occasionally instead.

Hrrmmm......
[IDEA]
Along with encrypted wallet feature in future client, add a frame work that allows a secure wallet export and sync to mobile device.


Others here have a far better sense of how it all works and if what I'm saying is feasible, but if it is.....then we can post it at github as a suggestion for future clients.

there is at least one major problem with this:
say we would use two dumbphones with bluetooth (or IR, w/e kind of communication that doesnt need internet or SMS)
so both owners would load theyr wallet.dat on theyr phone
person A buys a beer off person B, and transfers X BTC to person B
thats your idea, right?

now, the current system works becouse person A's wallet.dat will update a block, and delivers that info to the network. the network then verifies this new info (did that specific wallet have X BTC from that block?) and then tells person B's client that the transfer is OK

now, with 2 offline dumbphones, person A could upload a modified/old/otherwise tampered wallet.dat and pay person B with BTC that dont exist/are already spent

person B wont know that, untill he syncs the wallet.dat at home, after wich person A is long gone


paying with mobile phones are ofc the future, but we do need everyone to have internet for it, otherwise its just not safe enough

also, the confirmation time needs to go down, becouse if person A had to wait 5 min~5H for his beer, it wouldnt go very smooth

as for the massive block count: we could use cloud computing for that (use the BTC client on your own computer through the internet for example)
Not quite how your thinking it, but I can see what you mean. In terms of dumb offline systems a bit bill style system would be needed, but....this leads exactly to the issue you mention, in that you see a transaction signed to your public address with theirs and their private key, but until it auth's against the blockchain, you have no idea in hell if it will go through or not. Others are seeking offline systems, but to be honest....I think there will have to be network connectivity at a minimum...that said tho....  Smiley There's no reason sms couldn't be used for this purpose, reducing the need for actual packet data.

And your idea about using accessing the block chain through the cloud is exactly what I'm thinking.

You know....the idea of SMS might have some merit after all, something to chew on for a bit. Cheers.

I'm thinking maybe with micropayments like the example with the beer you could actually allow unconfirmed payments, I mean, most people wouldn't risk having problems just to steel a beer.

Haven't done that many transactions yet, but what if you raise the transaction-fee a lot (while still keeping it lower than for example creditcard-fees). How fast would you get confirmations?

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June 29, 2011, 08:36:44 AM
 #15

5 billion of those people have a cell phone
I hardly believe that 5 billion have a cell phone. But you're right that we need a way to simplify the exchange of Bitcoins.

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June 29, 2011, 10:46:07 AM
 #16

Quote
deleted alot of quotes cuz its getting too damn long xD

I'm thinking maybe with micropayments like the example with the beer you could actually allow unconfirmed payments, I mean, most people wouldn't risk having problems just to steel a beer.

Haven't done that many transactions yet, but what if you raise the transaction-fee a lot (while still keeping it lower than for example creditcard-fees). How fast would you get confirmations?

that sounds right, BUT the problem is that when your on a night clubbing, you dont drink one beer and go home (im told, i dont drink myself Wink)
also, if its possible, then it could become common practise, and altough 1 beer isnt that much, 100, or even 1000 is...
only trusted customers could pay with bitcoins if it's going to be offline

what may be possible though, is for the bar having a computer linked to the internet (or a wifi hotspot for the customer's phone) so that if you use bitcoins with your offline phone, the system can check the thing as valid
ofcourse, it still needs to go faster than what it's currently doing (<10 sec) so you dont have to wait eternally for your beer

i think that might just solve it: a PC that is connected to the internet where you pay to with your offline phone, i doubt much stores these days don't have internet so thats taken care of allready

and maybe a way to speed things up with paying is that as soon as you enter the store and your phone picks up that its possible to pay with bitcoins there, it sends a message to the computer saying something like "my wallet has 100 USD in it, please confirm this with the network"

then the computer goes to work while you shop (check pants or something) and by the time you reach checkout, the PC has confirmed that you indeed have 100USD and is ready to accept payment up to 100USD

thoughts?

killer2021
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June 29, 2011, 01:15:46 PM
 #17

5 billion of those people have a cell phone
I hardly believe that 5 billion have a cell phone. But you're right that we need a way to simplify the exchange of Bitcoins.

Just going by what wikipedia says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone

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July 01, 2011, 05:02:06 PM
 #18

So I agree, if there is a way to make a system that would let you pay and accept payments with sms or a calls, it would definitely help in developing countries (which could have potential due to very inflationary currency)
This is everything. Emphasis mine. Seventy five percent of all development work should be for the purpose of working towards this goal.

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