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Author Topic: can i mine only tx having low fees ?  (Read 1120 times)
btctousd81
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October 25, 2017, 12:10:27 AM
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i see, miners are going after high fees transaction and everyone is competing with each other. so there are tx with low fees are left.

there are many unconfirmed transactions 22311 a of now

ref https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

so is it possible for someone with modified code to get only tx having low fees and create a block of those tx ?

or this does not works like that ?

is nt the miner decides which tx to include in block ?


thanks.


i am thinking about getting only block reward and not the tx fees.

The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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DannyHamilton
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October 25, 2017, 01:53:32 AM
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i see, miners are going after high fees transaction and everyone is competing with each other. so there are tx with low fees are left.

there are many unconfirmed transactions 22311 a of now

ref https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

so is it possible for someone with modified code to get only tx having low fees and create a block of those tx ?

Yes, but it would be an expensive waste of money to do so.  Perhaps you should organize a "low fee charity" that takes donations from rich people to pay for mining free (and cheap) transactions for poor people.

or this does not works like that ?

Technically, it works like that.  However, financially it does not work like that.  You'll spend money on mining and earn less money from the mining.  Therefore, you'll eventually lose money.

is nt the miner decides which tx to include in block ?

Yes, and the miner wants to make profit.

i am thinking about getting only block reward and not the tx fees.

Imagine you had 8 hours available in your life to do some work.  Imagine that 8 people had identical work they wanted you to do for them.  Imagine that each of those people offered to pay you $100 to do the 1 hour of work for them (at the end of the day you could earn a total of $800).

Now imagine that 3 more people asked you to do the exact same work for them, but they decide they don't want to pay you to do the work at all. They each want you to do 1 hour of work for them for free.

What would you choose to do with your 8 hours?  Would you do the 8 hours of paid work?  Would you only do 5 hours of paid work, and then put in another 3 hours of work for free? Would you do 7 hours of paid work, and then 1 hour of work for free?

If you were one of the people that offered someone $100 to do some work for you, would you be upset if they told you that they were going to do the same work for free for someone else INSTEAD of the work you are offering to pay for?  Would you be upset if they took your money and did the work for you, and then did the exact same work for someone else for free?

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October 25, 2017, 06:10:49 AM
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i see, miners are going after high fees transaction and everyone is competing with each other. so there are tx with low fees are left.

there are many unconfirmed transactions 22311 a of now

ref https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

so is it possible for someone with modified code to get only tx having low fees and create a block of those tx ?

Yes, but it would be an expensive waste of money to do so.  Perhaps you should organize a "low fee charity" that takes donations from rich people to pay for mining free (and cheap) transactions for poor people.

or this does not works like that ?

Technically, it works like that.  However, financially it does not work like that.  You'll spend money on mining and earn less money from the mining.  Therefore, you'll eventually lose money.

is nt the miner decides which tx to include in block ?

Yes, and the miner wants to make profit.

i am thinking about getting only block reward and not the tx fees.

Imagine you had 8 hours available in your life to do some work.  Imagine that 8 people had identical work they wanted you to do for them.  Imagine that each of those people offered to pay you $100 to do the 1 hour of work for them (at the end of the day you could earn a total of $800).

Now imagine that 3 more people asked you to do the exact same work for them, but they decide they don't want to pay you to do the work at all. They each want you to do 1 hour of work for them for free.

What would you choose to do with your 8 hours?  Would you do the 8 hours of paid work?  Would you only do 5 hours of paid work, and then put in another 3 hours of work for free? Would you do 7 hours of paid work, and then 1 hour of work for free?

If you were one of the people that offered someone $100 to do some work for you, would you be upset if they told you that they were going to do the same work for free for someone else INSTEAD of the work you are offering to pay for?  Would you be upset if they took your money and did the work for you, and then did the exact same work for someone else for free?

Even though your logic is pretty much perfect I would argue that todays tx fee comprises just a small part of the actual profits miners get from mining (at least in case of BitCoin). Even though recently it became much higher it still just climbing up to 10% of block reward. Perhaps after next halving it will be much more incentive for miners to cherry-pick high fee transactions, but today, I feel that mining low fee transactions could still be profitable after all, ~10% less profitable.
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October 25, 2017, 08:46:56 AM
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You could start another fork with lower fees and double the block generation ( halve the generation time). Reduced confirmation times and lower fees should make it popular. Smiley

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October 25, 2017, 09:28:11 AM
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DannyHamilton, you are so kind  Cheesy

You care mining reward and whatever the transaction fees, first and for most you need have the right to generate block, which means you have enough hashing power.

if you have the hashing power and got the chance to mining, you will choose the transactions with high fees. That's economic choice.
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October 25, 2017, 11:45:57 AM
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Theoretically yes. You can start mining by yourself and when (or better: if) you find a block you can include whatever transaction(s) you like.
Therefore you only would get the block reward and almost no income from transaction fees.
But first you need a mining farm to generate enough hashing power to be able to mine a block in a manly time.
No miner would spare the TX fees. Money is money.

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October 25, 2017, 01:06:17 PM
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You could start another fork with lower fees and double the block generation ( halve the generation time). Reduced confirmation times and lower fees should make it popular. Smiley
Theoretically yes. You can start mining by yourself and when (or better: if) you find a block you can include whatever transaction(s) you like.
Therefore you only would get the block reward and almost no income from transaction fees.
But first you need a mining farm to generate enough hashing power to be able to mine a block in a manly time.
No miner would spare the TX fees. Money is money.

he doesn't need to start a fork.
what he needs to do is invest on mining rigs and do just what bob123 said
there is no rules on what tx that miners must or must not confirm
but the logical (profitable) way to do is to include the highest fee/byte tx to blockchain
and before that you have to compete with other miners to be the first to find the next block

if most bitcoin users are in agreement pushing down the fee/btye by including low fees
soon or later miners will have no choice than confirming those low fee txs than nothing at all
but on reality, users are competing to get their txs in the blockchain immediately and willing to pay higher  Roll Eyes
this is similar to buy and sell on trading... the best price on the market gets executed

btctousd81
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October 25, 2017, 02:02:45 PM
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You could start another fork with lower fees and double the block generation ( halve the generation time). Reduced confirmation times and lower fees should make it popular. Smiley
Theoretically yes. You can start mining by yourself and when (or better: if) you find a block you can include whatever transaction(s) you like.
Therefore you only would get the block reward and almost no income from transaction fees.
But first you need a mining farm to generate enough hashing power to be able to mine a block in a manly time.
No miner would spare the TX fees. Money is money.

he doesn't need to start a fork.
what he needs to do is invest on mining rigs and do just what bob123 said
there is no rules on what tx that miners must or must not confirm
but the logical (profitable) way to do is to include the highest fee/byte tx to blockchain
and before that you have to compete with other miners to be the first to find the next block

if most bitcoin users are in agreement pushing down the fee/btye by including low fees
soon or later miners will have no choice than confirming those low fee txs than nothing at all
but on reality, users are competing to get their txs in the blockchain immediately and willing to pay higher  Roll Eyes
this is similar to buy and sell on trading... the best price on the market gets executed


but there is limit on how many tx/size  a block can contain , and new tx are keeps on increasing.,

so if everyone is out there fighting for high fee tx mining, there are low fee tx are lying around waiting to be picked and mined.

so why not pick those tx and make a block and get block reward.,

idk how much hash power i need to mine 1 block ,


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October 25, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
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idk how much hash power i need to mine 1 block ,

Right now, today, you need to calculate an average of approximately 4790315043600000000000 hashes to solve 1 block.

There are 7 days in a week, 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in an hour, and 60 seconds in a minute.  Therefore, the number of seconds in a week is:

7 days X 24 hours X 60 minutes X 60 seconds = 604800 seconds

If you want to be able to mine 1 block in an average of 1 week, then you would need to have a hash rate of approximately:

4790315043600000000000 hashes / 604800 seconds = 7920494450396825 hashes per second.

That's just a bit more than 7.92 petahash per second (or 7,920 terahash per second).

An Antminer S9 would cost approximately $1415 and can calculate approximately 13.5 terahash per second.

You would need:
7920 / 13.5 = 587 AntMiner S9 units if you wanted to be able to mine an average of 1 block per week.


That would cost you:
587 * $1415 = $830,605

So, after spending $830,605 of your own money on equipment (and thousands of dollars on the electricity needed to run that equipment), are you sure you don't want to maximize your revenue by only including the highest fee transactions in your block?  That is VERY generous of you to run such an expensive charity.




btctousd81
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October 25, 2017, 03:15:20 PM
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idk how much hash power i need to mine 1 block ,

Right now, today, you need to calculate an average of approximately 4790315043600000000000 hashes to solve 1 block.

There are 7 days in a week, 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in an hour, and 60 seconds in a minute.  Therefore, the number of seconds in a week is:

7 days X 24 hours X 60 minutes X 60 seconds = 604800 seconds

If you want to be able to mine 1 block in an average of 1 week, then you would need to have a hash rate of approximately:

4790315043600000000000 hashes / 604800 seconds = 7920494450396825 hashes per second.

That's just a bit more than 7.92 petahash per second (or 7,920 terahash per second).

An Antminer S9 would cost approximately $1415 and can calculate approximately 13.5 terahash per second.

You would need:
7920 / 13.5 = 587 AntMiner S9 units if you wanted to be able to mine an average of 1 block per week.


That would cost you:
587 * $1415 = $830,605

So, after spending $830,605 of your own money on equipment (and thousands of dollars on the electricity needed to run that equipment), are you sure you don't want to maximize your revenue by only including the highest fee transactions in your block?  That is VERY generous of you to run such an expensive charity.


those are some good calculations ., thanks this clears my confusion.,

what happens lets say, we are mining a block of x transactions, but while we were mining, some other miner mines/creates block having 1 or few tx from our x tx's ?

our miner then rejects that tx from our block and adds other non mined low fees tx ?

or our miner starts all over again ?

how does it work.

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October 25, 2017, 03:57:32 PM
 #11

what happens lets say, we are mining a block of x transactions, but while we were mining, some other miner mines/creates block having 1 or few tx from our x tx's ?

our miner then rejects that tx from our block and adds other non mined low fees tx ?

Correct.

or our miner starts all over again ?

how does it work.

Every hash is a brand new attempt.  You never make any progress or get any closer to solving a block. It doesn't matter if you have tried 10 hashes or 10 septillion hashes.  The next hash you compute still has a 0.00000000000000000002% chance of success. Therefore, you are effectively ALWAYS "starting all over again".

That being said,  When you receive a valid solved block, you need to modify the "previous hash" field in your block header, and then you need to remove any transactions from your block that are already in the solved block (as well as any transactions that have become invalid).  You can add more transactions to your block to fill up that space if you want to.


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