YACoin Info And Communication Thread For Newbies YAC the CPU/GPU Mined coin

[St.Bit]

Can someone explain to me what will happen to the viability of GPU mining with the N-increases?  It is basically going to be more RAM dependent?

ad1) That's an interresting question, but I don't know if there is a reliable answer to this yet.

It's supposed that CPU stays very competable, but since CPUs will be required to use data from RAM and GPU's GDDR is far faster I'm not 100% sure about this. Only time can tell how CPUs and GPUs will function in the future and what system will be the most profitable.

Nevertheless the difference won't be several magnitudes so CPU can at least coexist.

ad2) Yes, it will become far more RAM dependent.
The memory requirement is for one core and GPUs have far more cores than CPUs.

[yajos]

Great thread.
Thanks!

[YacLives]

Can someone explain to me what will happen to the viability of GPU mining with the N-increases?  It is basically going to be more RAM dependent?

ad1) That's an interresting question, but I don't know if there is a reliable answer to this yet.

It's supposed that CPU stays very competable, but since CPUs will be required to use data from RAM and GPU's GDDR is far faster I'm not 100% sure about this. Only time can tell how CPUs and GPUs will function in the future and what system will be the most profitable.

Nevertheless the difference won't be several magnitudes so CPU can at least coexist.

ad2) Yes, it will become far more RAM dependent.
The memory requirement is for one core and GPUs have far more cores than CPUs.

Agreed and i have seen the argument about the cpu mem speed being somewhat ok for the N-increases given we are getting larger L3 caches on chips these days.

The argument was that server CPUs' seem to take less of a hit to hash rates after the N-increases

for example the the Xeon 6500/7500 with 8 cores/16 threads boasts a whopping 24mb of L3 thats 3mb per core....so interesting to see how viable GPU will remain after/if someone releases their optimised GPU miner

[petesays]

This is what each coin should be doing. The value of a new coin would be enhanced if they could get the new people on board. This makes it easier to get going, because you wouldn't have to track down all the info and figure out how it works.

Excellent job.

[St.Bit]

Agreed and i have seen the argument about the cpu mem speed being somewhat ok for the N-increases given we are getting larger L3 caches on chips these days.

L3 alone won't be sufficent. There are already the first CPUs with L4, but I suppose some new sort of small and fast GDDRx that be added to the mainboard will make it. (like in PS3)

I really like the N-increase since it takes further PC development into consideration. If we had the first crypto in the 90' the memory requirements today would be so ridiculous small that even GPUs couldn't compete against highly paralellized ASICS or FPGAs. YAC satisfies the demand for a crypto that is mineable on standard PCs.

[YacLives]

Agreed and i have seen the argument about the cpu mem speed being somewhat ok for the N-increases given we are getting larger L3 caches on chips these days.

L3 alone won't be sufficent. There are already the first CPUs with L4, but I suppose some new sort of small and fast GDDRx that be added to the mainboard will make it. (like in PS3)

I really like the N-increase since it takes further PC development into consideration. If we had the first crypto in the 90' the memory requirements today would be so ridiculous small that even GPUs couldn't compete against highly paralellized ASICS or FPGAs. YAC satisfies the demand for a crypto that is mineable on standard PCs.

Well put, i wonder how spintronics will work with this type of hashing.
In my opinion it should be amazing and will keep CPU mining very competative in the future.

[St.Bit]

Well put, i wonder how spintronics will work with this type of hashing.
In my opinion it should be amazing and will keep CPU mining very competative in the future.

I'm sorry to disapoint you, but the effect on that is zero.

If MRAM really replaces DRAM or this 'd leed to a total new technology it will be used on both, CPU and GPU. The nice properties of YACs hash algorithm make it very stable against technological advance. Most other hash algorithms will be performed by ASICs or FPGA in the future when they become even too simple tasks for GPU. (far future)

The only way I see YAC to loose the homemining ability requires an extreme technological breakthrue and extreme high prices. Since the calculations for its mining are quiet similiar to standard computing even then it's unlikely to become impossible on standard home hardware like bitcoin will in a few month.

[Beave162]

Thank you for the input.  I think I understand better, but it definitely feels like I have to learn a different language to understand you smart computer-types sometimes.

So if I understand correctly... GPUs are generally built with less RAM per core compared to CPUs since not a lot of memory storage is required when processing graphics.  Thus, CPUs are built with 4-16 gigs of RAM while GPUs don't go beyond a couple megs PER CORE.  I guess my next question is... how simple would it be to design/rig a GPU with CPU-sized RAM?  Could it be done just by software design?  I'm revealing my ignorance, but I would really appreciate more light shined on the hardware/software implications.

The way I see it, YaCoin is the only coin since LiteCoin to offer a true alternative in cryptocurrencies.  It seems to actually require different investment in what could be considered the most important aspect of these coins which is the mining.  The other coins attempt to gain value by essentially stealing from the investment of btc/ltc as you have to choose which ones to direct your mining operations.  With YaCoin, you can mine it while, let's say, still mining LTC on your GPU and not worry that you are diverting your resources, your investment to a less profitable option.

[St.Bit]

So if I understand correctly... GPUs are generally built with less RAM per core compared to CPUs since not a lot of memory storage is required when processing graphics.  Thus, CPUs are built with 4-16 gigs of RAM while GPUs don't go beyond a couple megs PER CORE.

GPUs have GDDR on the card that is a special, ultrafast DDR RAM. It's far bigger than caches for CPUs (12Mb vs 1Gb) and their only problem is the memory per core since they have a lot of cores. I belive it is unlikely that there will be enough GDDR on standard graphic cards since this gives no advantage for their usual workload and requires a lot of work.

On the other hand it is just a matter of time when RAM gets so big that the size difference between onCPU memory and RAM make it interresting to add faster GDDRx on mainboards. L3 on CPU chip(MB)<GDDR next to CPU(few GB)<RAM(several GB)<SSD(lots of GB)<HDD(and so on)<NAS<... while speed is the opposite.

How simple would it be to design/rig a GPU with CPU-sized RAM?

I don't know, but I suppose special YAC hardware will never or only on rare occasions pay off their initial developing costs. Even if you get the RAM on a custom board the GPU still has limitations on transfer speed and such. This could easyly get very messy.

If some mainboard producer adds GDDRx on a blade mainboard all your effords would be useless. The performance gain compared to CPUs with GDDR would be reduced to a minimum. Other factors, f.e energy costs would dominate this so hard that money should be spent on these to improve.

[YacLives]

Updated: GPU miner, with links to guide to configure to your card http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,274.msg1011.html#msg1011

[Beave162]

My next question... I have a LTC miner app on my phone that gets around 30 hashes/s which basically gets me nothing.  However, would this be feasible down the road with YAC?  Would it be worth using the computing power on your smart phone to mine assuming no specialized hardware at that point?  These are really more questions on the relationship between computing power and RAM.  Thanks again.

[St.Bit]

Would it be worth using the computing power on your smart phone to mine assuming no specialized hardware at that point?

No, that's just a waste of time.

[YacLives]

Update: new Windows client http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,294.msg1114.html#msg1114


Enjoy.

[YacLives]

Edited second post showing where to go to start getting some EASY exposure for YACoin  

                or you can click here   http://yacointalk.com/index.php/topic,296.msg1120.html#msg1120

[Beave162]

I installed that new windows client and ran the daemon exe.  It crashes everytime I open it now...   I'm worried I just dloaded a virus.

[sirbellos]

you got to look for the qt client daemon is command line only

[Beave162]

you got to look for the qt client daemon is command line only

The qt client crashes every time I run it.  Anyone else having this problem?

[YacLives]

you got to look for the qt client daemon is command line only

The qt client crashes every time I run it.  Anyone else having this problem?

are you running any other clients at the same time? what os are you using?

[chedros]

The qt client crashes every time I run it.  Anyone else having this problem?

+1
win8 x64, other clients are not running this time

[ranlo]

Would it be worth using the computing power on your smart phone to mine assuming no specialized hardware at that point?

No, that's just a waste of time.

This. The computing power of phones is pretty low. Computers are only viable because they have real CPU's; phones are very watered down versions of computers.