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Author Topic: Is stealing Bitcoins illegal?  (Read 24237 times)
Rob E
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January 02, 2013, 08:11:57 AM
 #181

and you creating a response that would be irritating  Cheesy
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chrisrico
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January 02, 2013, 11:12:40 AM
 #182

I didn't realize you wanted a numerical answer...

1 in 2^160, I think.
Rob E
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January 02, 2013, 12:17:43 PM
 #183

i only read just read " creating tons of adresses"  and i'm not a mathmatician but .. is that one in two to the power of one hundred and sixty?
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January 02, 2013, 02:20:27 PM
 #184

i only read just read " creating tons of adresses"  and i'm not a mathmatician but .. is that one in two to the power of one hundred and sixty?
Yes. Or 1 in 1,461,501,637,330,902,918,203,684,832,716,283,019,655,932,542,976 if you prefer. Wink (Actually, it's <number of addresses that have coins> in 2^160 but it's still such long odds that it'll almost certainly never happen before the heat death of the universe.)

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Rob E
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January 02, 2013, 03:55:00 PM
 #185

Numbers are pretty fascinating ..   not likely to happen before the death of this universe..



That kinda puts things in perspective. Thats ahh pretty amazing.
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June 04, 2013, 07:35:36 AM
Last edit: June 04, 2013, 07:48:38 AM by kcirazy
 #186

Numbers are pretty fascinating ..   not likely to happen before the death of this universe..
That kinda puts things in perspective. Thats ahh pretty amazing.
The chances are actually quite a bit higher than that. Those perfect odds depends on creating perfectly random numbers. We all know that no software is that perfect. And include brainwallets and you've already narrowed it down quite a bit more.

I think this whole discussion about stealing bitcoins is missing the fact that moving bitcoins is never stealing.
These are my arguments:

First:
The Blockchain and Bitcoin-protocol don't have an end-user license agreement, and the original inventor is not there to defend it. And it has been called an experiment many times. So basically you can use it any way you like. It has been said many times over: "Only invest time/money into Bitcoin you can afford to lose".

Second:
The entire premise of Bitcoin is to get away from trust in central authority deciding who own the money. Bitcoin even has the much adopted tag-line "In cryptography we trust" - So as long as you are following the mathematical rules, you are not stealing anything.
As Sathoshi has once said: "The owner of a coin is just whoever has its private key."
(E-mail from Satoshi: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin-satoshi/email-p2presearch-2009-02-12-141802.txt)

Third:
(my personal opinion which doesn't match intellectual property laws)
Private keys can't be stolen. Imagine your car gets stolen, but it's still there in the morning
But even with intellectual property, laws differ in various countries on how to prove it was your right before anybody elses.
Gareth Nelson
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June 05, 2013, 06:32:46 AM
 #187

Of course stealing bitcoins is illegal.

Taking something that does not belong to you by force or by fraud is one of the things governments were put in place to stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obtaining_pecuniary_advantage_by_deception
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June 05, 2013, 09:24:01 AM
 #188

Of course stealing bitcoins is illegal.

Taking something that does not belong to you by force or by fraud is one of the things governments were put in place to stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obtaining_pecuniary_advantage_by_deception

What he said. Anyone stealing Bitcoins from a Brit should and will be beaten with the arm of the UK Law.
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June 12, 2013, 06:27:43 AM
 #189



I think Gods laws say 'you shall not steal'.

People who do not believe in God, may think they are not under Gods laws, but in fact, according to some interpretations of the holy bible, their non-belief means that they are under Gods laws, though they do not think they are.

Whereas, those who have faith in Jesus Christ, are not under the law, or may not be under the law.

To the non-believer, they may find this hard to understand.

Stealing is always against Gods laws.

Specific states or governments or kings or queens in various locations may not have created specific laws at times; but people who do evil are having impunity. Just because a state or government did not create a specific law, does not mean it is not against the law to steal.

But judgments may deviate depending on many different factors. Some lawyers might cling to the fact that the state failed to create any specific laws for a matter, and might win, I think this is possible but I don't really know.

But Gods laws are always that you shall not steal. To be on the safe side, don't steal.

Today is the day that the Lord has made, lets be glad and rejoice in it
Gareth Nelson
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June 12, 2013, 08:07:35 AM
 #190



I think Gods laws say 'you shall not steal'.

People who do not believe in God, may think they are not under Gods laws, but in fact, according to some interpretations of the holy bible, their non-belief means that they are under Gods laws, though they do not think they are.

Whereas, those who have faith in Jesus Christ, are not under the law, or may not be under the law.

To the non-believer, they may find this hard to understand.

Stealing is always against Gods laws.

Specific states or governments or kings or queens in various locations may not have created specific laws at times; but people who do evil are having impunity. Just because a state or government did not create a specific law, does not mean it is not against the law to steal.

But judgments may deviate depending on many different factors. Some lawyers might cling to the fact that the state failed to create any specific laws for a matter, and might win, I think this is possible but I don't really know.

But Gods laws are always that you shall not steal. To be on the safe side, don't steal.

Basic ethics is all that's needed to understand stealing is wrong, no god or religion is needed, nor is a state needed.

The question asked by the OP was "Is stealing bitcoins illegal?" which was pretty clearly a reference to secular laws passed by the state, it should be painfully obvious that stealing is against any civilised person's ethics and against most religious laws.

I am curious though, how does this bit make sense?
Quote
Whereas, those who have faith in Jesus Christ, are not under the law, or may not be under the law.

From my understanding of christian mythology, "god's laws" would bind believer and unbeliever alike and you're the first christian i've come across to imply otherwise.
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June 12, 2013, 09:06:52 AM
 #191

I am curious though, how does this bit make sense?
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Whereas, those who have faith in Jesus Christ, are not under the law, or may not be under the law.

From my understanding of christian mythology, "god's laws" would bind believer and unbeliever alike and you're the first christian i've come across to imply otherwise.
Correction: he's the first Christian to explicitly say that. Most fundamentalist Christians I've come across imply it all the time, especially in their attitude toward non-Christians. (And the Lord said "Thou shalt not kill, unless thy enemy is a heathen, in which case thou maist blow him into tiny bits." Here endeth the lesson.)

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brishtiteveja
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June 12, 2013, 09:16:28 AM
 #192

Stealing should be a moral concern, not about illegality.
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June 12, 2013, 09:37:06 AM
 #193

Ahh old topic, well no it's not illegal.
giantdragon
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June 12, 2013, 02:14:53 PM
 #194

Although it may not be qualified as theft by criminal law of most states, I think it is still possible to enforce reimbursement of the value of stolen Bitcoins with civil lawsuit.
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June 12, 2013, 06:45:42 PM
 #195

If I somehow gain unauthorized access to your wallet.dat, I can be arrested for computer crimes.

But suppose I somehow deceive you into transferring the coins to me yourself.

In the eyes of the law, have I committed a crime?

Personally I think that in most countries, if you reported it to the police, there is nothing they could do. However I am not a lawyer so I am interested to hear what some of the more legally knowledgeable people here think.

I know of one country where I think it would be a crime. South Korea has a "virtual crime" unit, and presumably virtual crime laws. This was set up to prosecute people who steal items and in-game currency in MMORPGs and similar games and I believe that many cases have come to court, although it's not regarded as a particularly serious crime.

There are also two countries where it may be a crime. In Japan a young man was arrested for "virtual mugging" in a game called Lineage 2. A Dutch teenager was also arrested for stealing virtual furniture in a visual chat environment called Habbo Hotel. However I can't find any information as to whether either of these arrests lead to prosecution and conviction. After the Dutch arrest a spokesperson for the company which developed Habbo Hotel said "It is theft because the items were bought with real money." So perhaps in Holland it is only illegal to steal coins which have been purchased and not mined.

What do you all think?

i'd say if anyone ever stole any kind of "coins" from me(welcome to vegas) i'd want them back or i'd go looking for them!...common law,,
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June 13, 2013, 02:10:02 AM
 #196

it is illegal to steal Bitcoins no matter how you do it. just think how distressed you will be if you get robbed.
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