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Author Topic: is it possible to launch an independent bitcoin network ?  (Read 4858 times)
hromisko
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December 17, 2010, 12:54:00 AM
 #1

Hello world,

We would like to launch a peer2peer currency bounded to a specific community&region (i.e. central europe) and therefore we found it more practical to have our own network, parallel to the main bitcoin thread, independent from the speculations of GPU miners.

Therefore I would like to ask whether it is possible to do such a kind of 'fork' and if yes (which is more or less certainly the case), what should be done so that the new chain of transactions will be seeded ?

Of course we'll change the irc server & initial pnSeed values etc., but the bitcoin code is filled with sophisticated crypto so it seems to me that some other quite obfuscated values have to be changed in order to have a fully independent network. Could somebody indicate what variables have to be changed so that a new currency can be seeded?

Also please understand that by our tentatives to create a parallel currency (let's call it kybcoin for example) we do not want to, in any way, undermine the impact&value of the main bitcoin currency. On the contrary, we believe that an emergence of a new bitcoin-philosophy-based currency will add new spice in the game, since in the ideal case it would be possible to exchange bitcoins for kybcoins & vice versa...

which would be in the end, to the profit of all (we truly believe that bitcoin can lead to a nonzero-sum game economy)

Thank You very much for the time spent by reading (&possible reacting) to this message.

Yours cordially,
D.

P.S. bitcoin is truly genial
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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kiba
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December 17, 2010, 12:59:59 AM
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Hello world,

We would like to launch a peer2peer currency bounded to a specific community&region (i.e. central europe) and therefore we found it more practical to have our own network, parallel to the main bitcoin thread, independent from the speculations of GPU miners.


Speculation is an healthy activity part of any economy.


However, you wouldn't get far if you bounded your currency to a specific community. Specialization and interconnection of our global economy lead to greater prosperity and world peace.

MoonShadow
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December 17, 2010, 01:02:06 AM
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Yes, it's possible.  You need a different genesis block, and probably a different port number.  I can't see how you can get it to work only as a regional thing, however, unless you intend to tie the currency to an institution of some kind.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 17, 2010, 01:04:41 AM
 #4

We would like to launch a peer2peer currency bounded to a specific community&region (i.e. central europe) and therefore we found it more practical to have our own network, parallel to the main bitcoin thread, independent from the speculations of GPU miners.

Do you think no-one would be tempted to run a GPU miner after a while?

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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kiba
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December 17, 2010, 01:07:21 AM
 #5

Why would anybody use a region specific currency when you can trade with American, Brazilian, and other people not from central Europe?

hromisko
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December 17, 2010, 01:16:49 AM
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Yes, it's possible.  You need a different genesis block, and probably a different port number.  I can't see how you can get it to work only as a regional thing, however, unless you intend to tie the currency to an institution of some kind.

Thank You for Your answer.

Yup, we definitely plan to use a different port number.
When it comes to a different genesis block, is uint256 hashGenesisBlock variable the only one which needs to be changed (to no matter what value of same length?) or are there some other variables bounded to it?

Concerning Your remark of 'tying the currency to an institution of some kind', our objective is to tie it  to the functioning of the decentralized network of communities called kyberia which are starting to pop-up here & there and in the year to come we plan to implement bitcoin-based currency during activities like flee markets, music festivals etc...

and since its getting more  and more difficult to mine some bitcoins nowadays, we prefer to start a new fork, bound to real (and already trusted) people exchanging real goods and services
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December 17, 2010, 01:18:57 AM
 #7

I dont think its wise to do such a thing. Governments are region specific...look how that turned out. Cool
hromisko
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December 17, 2010, 01:20:00 AM
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Why would anybody use a region specific currency when you can trade with American, Brazilian, and other people not from central Europe?

we think that the global market is a huge fallacy if it does not have grassroots in the local interactions of people who trust each other
kiba
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December 17, 2010, 01:23:50 AM
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Why would anybody use a region specific currency when you can trade with American, Brazilian, and other people not from central Europe?

we think that the global market is a huge fallacy if it does not have grassroots in the local interactions of people who trust each other

Why it is a fallacy?

The logic of division of labor, comparative advantage, and specialization is unassailable.

grondilu
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December 17, 2010, 01:26:17 AM
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Different Genesis block, different port, but also a different name please !  Wink
Anonymous
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December 17, 2010, 01:27:06 AM
 #11

Why would anybody use a region specific currency when you can trade with American, Brazilian, and other people not from central Europe?

we think that the global market is a huge fallacy if it does not have grassroots in the local interactions of people who trust each other


Trade between countries prevents war between countries.
grondilu
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December 17, 2010, 01:38:41 AM
 #12

I'd like to mention that the idea of a local cryptocurrency doesn't make much sense.

How do you intend to prevent your currency from spreading abroad and thus becoming an international currency ?  Do you plan in controling internet and restrict access inside your geographic area or something ?

This doesn't make much sense.  Sure, you can initiate a cryptocurrency in your country.  But it's not much different from bitcoin, which probably started in USA (or maybe Japan, only Satoshi knows).
Anonymous
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December 17, 2010, 01:49:10 AM
 #13

I'd like to mention that the idea of a local cryptocurrency doesn't make much sense.

How do you intend to prevent your currency from spreading abroad and thus becoming an international currency ?  Do you plan in controling internet and restrict access inside your geographic area or something ?

This doesn't make much sense.  Sure, you can initiate a cryptocurrency in your country.  But it's not much different from bitcoin, which probably started in USA (or maybe Japan, only Satoshi knows).


*points at the great firewall of china.
Stephen Gornick
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December 17, 2010, 01:56:30 AM
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And so it begins ...

Wake me up when 10 McD's are given out with each happy meal and OprahBux are accepted for coffee.

grondilu
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December 17, 2010, 02:00:08 AM
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And so it begins ...

Wake me up when 10 McD's are given out with each happy meal and OprahBux are accepted for coffee.

You're kidding but this will happen.  Private companies will issue their own cryptocurrencies.

My guess is Google and Apple will be amongst the first ones to do so.
barbarousrelic
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December 17, 2010, 02:45:19 AM
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And so it begins ...

Wake me up when 10 McD's are given out with each happy meal and OprahBux are accepted for coffee.

You're kidding but this will happen.  Private companies will issue their own cryptocurrencies.

My guess is Google and Apple will be amongst the first ones to do so.


I've long thought that if any private company wanted to issue their own currency, it would be Walmart.

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
FreddyFender
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Shamantastic!


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December 17, 2010, 03:08:33 AM
 #17

Walmart and brick & mortar corps have to much at stake to legitimize bitcoin et. al.

The chance of multiple block chain-driven virtual commodities will be decided by the strength of the chain that founded it.

jgarzik
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December 17, 2010, 03:22:42 AM
 #18

See http://yyz.us/bitcoin/patch.bitcoin-datanet-fork for an incomplete example fork.

At a minimum you need
  • your own 4-byte message header (or "magic number"; ensures separation of network clients)
  • your own genesis block
  • your own default port numbers for RPC and P2P network interfaces
  • your own IRC seeding method / channel

Jeff Garzik, bitcoin core dev team and BitPay engineer; opinions are my own, not my employer.
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RHorning
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December 17, 2010, 04:19:45 AM
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In many ways, I hope that another block chain or two are started at least to compare different ways to be using cryptocurrencies.  If it is of any value at all, I'm sure that somebody will start to use it in exchanges.  Trading between Bitcoins and other similar currencies ought to be simple and straight forward.

The main issue is the strength of the currency, which to me is going to be based upon the CPU strength of that currency over time.  I find it hard to believe that any "local" currency is going to be any stronger, but one thing that will happen is that perhaps there might be some incentive to introduce that currency locally.

Walmart and brick & mortar corps have to much at stake to legitimize bitcoin et. al.

The chance of multiple block chain-driven virtual commodities will be decided by the strength of the chain that founded it.

Wal-mart doesn't care how they get their money, as long as it is convertable to something that the Walton family can use ultimately in Arkansas in some form.  Other sorts of retail stores are the same, and certainly don't care if they get paid in dollars, euros, pesos, or any other currency as long as they get paid.  They many not want to do foreign exchange if it is an unusual hassle to deal with, but as long as they have several customers who all want to use that currency and it can make a difference in terms of additional sales, they'll take another currency with no trouble at all.

The problem is mainly the exchange rate, which for a brand new currency is going to be essentially worthless.

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December 17, 2010, 04:33:35 AM
 #20

Hromisko, I think this is an interesting idea, especially the 'local' aspect of it.

By being local they will more quickly be able to match buyers and sellers for face to face transactions.  Right now bitcoin is useful only on the internet because there are too few of us and we're spread all over the globe.  By focusing locally it could spur the development of bitcoin mobile apps, the use of QR, and the development of offline business accepting a bitcoin-like currency.

Of course they won't be able to strictly limit the use of their currency to a designated geographic area, but practically speaking no one in Brazil will have a use for their currency if 90% of the accepting businesses are operating offline somewhere in central Europe.

Please keep us up to date with this project, I will be interested in seeing how it turns out.


Quote
Trade between countries prevents war between countries.
We'll see how that works out with Chimerica.  Maybe, maybe not.

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