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servsec
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October 27, 2017, 11:41:47 PM
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Hello,

I contacted WageCan support today asking if they guarantee that the card will be working on next year if I order now, they replied that can't guarantee.

When I replied the email asking if will get a refund if my card stop working, they become silent.

As we see, the card fee is a “bit” expensive if compare with the another cards packages such as $15.4 price for the Universe card.
Seems they are taking advantage for these restrictions for non-european residents and in addition can't guarantee that the card will work as expected.

I suggest that as have uncertainties regarding the service the card fee should be max 15 usd each.

Share your views.
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October 28, 2017, 04:27:55 AM
 #2

Hello,

I contacted WageCan support today asking if they guarantee that the card will be working on next year if I order now, they replied that can't guarantee.

When I replied the email asking if will get a refund if my card stop working, they become silent.

As we see, the card fee is a “bit” expensive if compare with the another cards packages such as $15.4 price for the Universe card.
Seems they are taking advantage for these restrictions for non-european residents and in addition can't guarantee that the card will work as expected.

I suggest that as have uncertainties regarding the service the card fee should be max 15 usd each.

Share your views.


Perhaps you should contact this person which seems to be the person in charge of PR on the bitcointalk forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=963014. He/she is pretty active and you should get a response from them.

The reaction you got was definitely strange. Maybe they know that the card is going to fail, or maybe they are just uncertain and wouldn't want to take responsibility if it does happen.

But nonetheless too early to assume anything, PM that profile first.


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warningsigns
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October 28, 2017, 04:38:01 AM
 #3

I will repeat what I wrote earlier as a form of caveat emptor for anyone considering buying this card:

If you are prepared to wait for your card to be loaded forever (ages in fact... days and days and days up to a week of waiting) then WageCan might be a card worth considering. I use the word "might" and not "should" because I had this and recently closed it.

For one, the card is extremely expensive. It has a lifetime of 3 years and you are allowed an annual ATM transaction limit of 25k USD. If you hit this limit after a few months, you can use the card for non-ATM transactions only (store purchases etc).

Then you have the ATM withdrawal fee of $3 (minimum) or 2.5% (whichever of both is higher). Have a look at it here:

https://wagecan.com/Pricing

If, for example, you withdraw $100, then the fee for that is $3 (since 2.5% would be the lower of both). The more you withdraw, the higher the fee. Taking $2000 as an example, you should expect to pay:

1) The acquiring bank's ATM usage fee (the bank that owns the ATM you withdraw money from) and
2) WageCan's bank's fee of 2.5% of $2000 (which equates to $50)

Compare this to Wave Crest's once-off fee of $3 regardless of whether you withdraw $100 or their max transaction limit.

All of the above might still be tolerable for those who do not care about fees. What you will definitely find inconvenient is WageCan's arbitrary requests for reverification. This is the reason for my decision to have the card terminated and my account closed. I was fully verified to KYC level 2 for their Golden card which is their highest verification level. Two months later while loading USD $2k worth of coins my card was abruptly downgraded to level 1 (lower level with shitty limits). And they did this 4 days after I loaded... while I was waiting and wondering what was going on with the bitcoins I loaded.

I then asked what was going on and why they downgraded the account, they told me to do the entire thing again. Reverify (which takes ages to complete). To me, it looks like a stall mechanism because the downgrade happened a few days after I loaded the card with bitcoins and while they were still processing it. It seems to be a way for them to further stall or delay the loading process. They had a similar card last year (with a company called Transforex) and they did this same exact thing to me too. Abruptly suspended my fully verified account and asked me to redo the KYC reverification thing. They then rejected the second verification.

So you are fully verified a few months back, then they reject the second verification. Extremely inconsistent.

So in summary: if you decide to use this card, be sure to have a back up card funding source (a second card with enough back up money). You might be shopping or on a long queue to pay for that coffee, then boom you get that email asking you to reverify the account. Just imagine the inconvenience. It can happen anytime without warning.

All in all, I do not recommend the card. I now use Localbitcoins to convert my coins to fiat. It's not inconvenient. I have local sources who deposit money to my bank account within minutes after I open an escrow transaction. True, a card offers a more private transaction and the convenience of loading anytime. But then again, this particular card is not loaded in real time. It takes forever.

Verdict: I do not recommend anyone to use this card. The card works, yes, but the service levels are extremely inconsistent. Level 2 verification is never a final KYC assessment. You can be downgraded anytime arbitrarily and told to redo the entire procedure and submit documents again.


servsec
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October 28, 2017, 06:47:35 AM
 #4

Hello,

I contacted WageCan support today asking if they guarantee that the card will be working on next year if I order now, they replied that can't guarantee.

When I replied the email asking if will get a refund if my card stop working, they become silent.

As we see, the card fee is a “bit” expensive if compare with the another cards packages such as $15.4 price for the Universe card.
Seems they are taking advantage for these restrictions for non-european residents and in addition can't guarantee that the card will work as expected.

I suggest that as have uncertainties regarding the service the card fee should be max 15 usd each.

Share your views.


Perhaps you should contact this person which seems to be the person in charge of PR on the bitcointalk forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=963014. He/she is pretty active and you should get a response from them.

The reaction you got was definitely strange. Maybe they know that the card is going to fail, or maybe they are just uncertain and wouldn't want to take responsibility if it does happen.

But nonetheless too early to assume anything, PM that profile first.

Exactly. Seems they are uncertain about the service they are offering and wouldn’t want to take any responsibility if the card stop working.
I will contact this person to verify this fact. Thanks
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October 28, 2017, 06:54:30 AM
 #5

I will repeat what I wrote earlier as a form of caveat emptor for anyone considering buying this card:

If you are prepared to wait for your card to be loaded forever (ages in fact... days and days and days up to a week of waiting) then WageCan might be a card worth considering. I use the word "might" and not "should" because I had this and recently closed it.

For one, the card is extremely expensive. It has a lifetime of 3 years and you are allowed an annual ATM transaction limit of 25k USD. If you hit this limit after a few months, you can use the card for non-ATM transactions only (store purchases etc).

Then you have the ATM withdrawal fee of $3 (minimum) or 2.5% (whichever of both is higher). Have a look at it here:

https://wagecan.com/Pricing

If, for example, you withdraw $100, then the fee for that is $3 (since 2.5% would be the lower of both). The more you withdraw, the higher the fee. Taking $2000 as an example, you should expect to pay:

1) The acquiring bank's ATM usage fee (the bank that owns the ATM you withdraw money from) and
2) WageCan's bank's fee of 2.5% of $2000 (which equates to $50)

Compare this to Wave Crest's once-off fee of $3 regardless of whether you withdraw $100 or their max transaction limit.

All of the above might still be tolerable for those who do not care about fees. What you will definitely find inconvenient is WageCan's arbitrary requests for reverification. This is the reason for my decision to have the card terminated and my account closed. I was fully verified to KYC level 2 for their Golden card which is their highest verification level. Two months later while loading USD $2k worth of coins my card was abruptly downgraded to level 1 (lower level with shitty limits). And they did this 4 days after I loaded... while I was waiting and wondering what was going on with the bitcoins I loaded.

I then asked what was going on and why they downgraded the account, they told me to do the entire thing again. Reverify (which takes ages to complete). To me, it looks like a stall mechanism because the downgrade happened a few days after I loaded the card with bitcoins and while they were still processing it. It seems to be a way for them to further stall or delay the loading process. They had a similar card last year (with a company called Transforex) and they did this same exact thing to me too. Abruptly suspended my fully verified account and asked me to redo the KYC reverification thing. They then rejected the second verification.

So you are fully verified a few months back, then they reject the second verification. Extremely inconsistent.

So in summary: if you decide to use this card, be sure to have a back up card funding source (a second card with enough back up money). You might be shopping or on a long queue to pay for that coffee, then boom you get that email asking you to reverify the account. Just imagine the inconvenience. It can happen anytime without warning.

All in all, I do not recommend the card. I now use Localbitcoins to convert my coins to fiat. It's not inconvenient. I have local sources who deposit money to my bank account within minutes after I open an escrow transaction. True, a card offers a more private transaction and the convenience of loading anytime. But then again, this particular card is not loaded in real time. It takes forever.

Verdict: I do not recommend anyone to use this card. The card works, yes, but the service levels are extremely inconsistent. Level 2 verification is never a final KYC assessment. You can be downgraded anytime arbitrarily and told to redo the entire procedure and submit documents again.



This shouldn’t be expensive if is guaranteed that it will work for 3 years as expected
But they can’t guarantee. I don’t mind to pay it if not get a surprise later and the card suddenly stop working. I lose my xapo, cryptopay, uquid cards that they should work till 2019 / 2020!

And thanks for the advice, so I avoid such waste of time by having to try to get verified more than once. I think will try centra card. I will take a look on reviews.
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October 28, 2017, 10:26:59 PM
 #6

First, no card is worth of that amount that Wagecan asks for their cards; Second, the cards are finally controlled by Visa and Mastercard. And if they tell Wagecan to stop the service (and they can do it at any time), you'll have trouble like many people have now when Wavecrest stopped servicing their bitcoin debit cards for people outside of the EU (like Xapo, Wirex, AdvCash etc)

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October 28, 2017, 10:48:28 PM
 #7

They are insane, over 140 dollars for a single prepaid card, they dont even give us any privileges for buying their card, they are asking for a lot of money, you can just ask for a Wirex or Bitwala card and you are going to have better rates and you are not even going to be uploading or providing your ID to them, which is risky to give them to WageCan since there are not too many references about this company on here.
Anyway, i've never had good experiences with this kind of cards, i dont like btc cards at all, they all are shit.

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October 28, 2017, 10:58:17 PM
 #8

I think they priced their cards based on the current state of affairs about Visa and MasterCard refusing to allow Wave Crest to offer their cards worldwide.

They know they are one of the few, if not even the sole provider of a bitcoin debit card which knows no geographic restrictions, apart from North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan and a few other countries.

So if you don't mind the low ATM limits (25k per year max), the high cost of applying for the card, the horrible ATM charges (acquiring bank's fee + WageCan's bank's 2.5% nightmare fee) and... (drum roll)... their super long loading time (several days up to a week or longer during Taiwan/HK holidays) then this is a card to consider for those who desperately need a way to convert their bitcoins to cash.

Don't forget that they arbitrarily downgrade account limits and they do this without warning. You could be shopping or having dinner with friends or family, about to pay the bill and you get an email on your phone letting you know that you need to reverify yourself (even if you were fully verified earlier). Always have a back up card to avoid embarrassment.




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October 29, 2017, 01:16:39 AM
 #9

They are insane, over 140 dollars for a single prepaid card, they dont even give us any privileges for buying their card, they are asking for a lot of money, you can just ask for a Wirex or Bitwala card and you are going to have better rates and you are not even going to be uploading or providing your ID to them, which is risky to give them to WageCan since there are not too many references about this company on here.
Anyway, i've never had good experiences with this kind of cards, i dont like btc cards at all, they all are shit.


Does Wirex and Bitwala offers "anonymous" virtual cards?
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October 29, 2017, 02:01:55 PM
 #10

Hello,

I contacted WageCan support today asking if they guarantee that the card will be working on next year if I order now, they replied that can't guarantee.

When I replied the email asking if will get a refund if my card stop working, they become silent.



It seemss like ALL cards that accept cryptocurrencies have a chance  to get locked (no matter what their support will tell you). Those kind of cards might have problems with the service providers (like Vise or MasterCard) so the only chance to get a refund would be if this service will refund you from their own money. It doesn't seems to be real in case of the global shutdown so i think that people are risking while using those cryptocards.

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October 29, 2017, 07:35:38 PM
 #11

In the current situation, I wouldn't invest into any bitcoin debit card provider. All of them are at the mercy of banks or Visa/Mastercard. If the banks/Visa/Mastercard decide to cancel or downgrade your card, no provider like WageCan, Wavecrest etc can do anything about it. They'll lament, be sorry, waive their hands etc, but will not reimburse your blocked funds blaming the banks/Visa/Mastercard.

The risks of being blocked or inconvenienced in some way are significant and it's better IMHO, at least for this moment, to keep your BTC wallet separate from the debit card account. If you need some cash, just use an exchange service from BTC to cash/traditional credit card/paypal and enjoy your money for 100%.

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October 29, 2017, 09:32:53 PM
 #12

In the current situation, I wouldn't invest into any bitcoin debit card provider. All of them are at the mercy of banks or Visa/Mastercard. If the banks/Visa/Mastercard decide to cancel or downgrade your card, no provider like WageCan, Wavecrest etc can do anything about it. They'll lament, be sorry, waive their hands etc, but will not reimburse your blocked funds blaming the banks/Visa/Mastercard.

The risks of being blocked or inconvenienced in some way are significant and it's better IMHO, at least for this moment, to keep your BTC wallet separate from the debit card account. If you need some cash, just use an exchange service from BTC to cash/traditional credit card/paypal and enjoy your money for 100%.

I'd be confident of being made whole by Bitpay or Xapo if their cards were shut down. I wouldn't be inclined to trust the majority of crypto card providers including the subject of this thread. Any prick can become one. Visa and Mastercard don't seem to give much of a shit about who issues them.

If it wasn't a hack of some sort then it's safe to assume that the bigger providers would still be issuing worldwide cards. This tells us that either that Wagecan has a unique provider or they or their provider is lying to Visa somewhere along the line and it's only a matter of time before they're found out.

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October 30, 2017, 03:17:50 AM
 #13

@servsec thanks for pm me about this thread, somehow I haven't seen this one before.
For your question, no, we don't offer a refund if the card stops working under the circumstances beyond our control, e.g. card issuer terminates the contract with us, like what the Gibraltar-based company did to all the players recently.
But we've been trying our best to keep that thing from happening (because it'll also hurt our bottom line. It makes no sense for us to let that happen purposely).

In the worst-case scenario, we'll find an alternative card issuer for our current customer. Just to be clear, this doesn't necessarily mean that we'll give a new card for free.


WageCan Debit Card 👉https://wagecan.com/s/7NNcu6J
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October 30, 2017, 04:27:47 PM
 #14

Thanks for the anwer, but everybody in this thread being your potential customer would really appreciate your answer why you charge so much like $150+ minimum for issuing the card?


@servsec thanks for pm me about this thread, somehow I haven't seen this one before.
For your question, no, we don't offer a refund if the card stops working under the circumstances beyond our control, e.g. card issuer terminates the contract with us, like what the Gibraltar-based company did to all the players recently.
But we've been trying our best to keep that thing from happening (because it'll also hurt our bottom line. It makes no sense for us to let that happen purposely).

In the worst-case scenario, we'll find an alternative card issuer for our current customer. Just to be clear, this doesn't necessarily mean that we'll give a new card for free.



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October 31, 2017, 11:20:00 AM
 #15

There is no clear justificative to charge this for a card that is even not guaranteed to work in long term.
I got mine for free on monaco pre order. https://mona.co/cards

If Wagecan reduce the price for 10$ will be fair.
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October 31, 2017, 11:28:04 AM
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Thanks for the anwer, but everybody in this thread being your potential customer would really appreciate your answer why you charge so much like $150+ minimum for issuing the card?

Because for a large swathe of the world it's now the only game in town? If they're continuing to ask it then they must be getting enough of it to keep the price at that level. I wouldn't be confident holding such a card myself.

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November 02, 2017, 07:38:48 AM
 #17

Hi bptovtmg,
thanks for asking me this question.
The answer is simple - the cost of the card itself is much more expensive than another card, and the price includes DHL shipping fee.

As a product manager, I know the price is much more expensive than what we offered before (and I have no power to change it).
That's why I intentionally put 'Use WageCan referral code to get 20% off' on the pricing page and use our referral code to promote our card in this forum.

And there is one thing I would like to point out is that we've been selling Golden card with that price tag way before the whole incident happened. So the whole 'WageCan took advantage the situation to increase the price' argument doesn't hold.
You all could check wayback machine to see our pricing page yourself.

Hope this clear things up a little bit.

Thanks for the anwer, but everybody in this thread being your potential customer would really appreciate your answer why you charge so much like $150+ minimum for issuing the card?


WageCan Debit Card 👉https://wagecan.com/s/7NNcu6J
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November 02, 2017, 11:55:21 AM
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Hi bptovtmg,
thanks for asking me this question.
The answer is simple - the cost of the card itself is much more expensive than another card, and the price includes DHL shipping fee.
Yeah DHL shipping is included in the fee so actual card cost is around 80$ without shipping fee because DHL cost around $50.

Why you guys want 1-7 working days to top up cards with bitcoin? Can't you make that instant, also which exchange rates will be used when converting bitcoin into fiat? It will be converted on the day of deposit or when you guys will manually upload balance to our card?

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November 02, 2017, 02:15:29 PM
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Hi bptovtmg,
thanks for asking me this question.
The answer is simple - the cost of the card itself is much more expensive than another card, and the price includes DHL shipping fee.

As a product manager, I know the price is much more expensive than what we offered before (and I have no power to change it).
That's why I intentionally put 'Use WageCan referral code to get 20% off' on the pricing page and use our referral code to promote our card in this forum.

And there is one thing I would like to point out is that we've been selling Golden card with that price tag way before the whole incident happened. So the whole 'WageCan took advantage the situation to increase the price' argument doesn't hold.
You all could check wayback machine to see our pricing page yourself.

Hope this clear things up a little bit.

Thanks for the anwer, but everybody in this thread being your potential customer would really appreciate your answer why you charge so much like $150+ minimum for issuing the card?


What's the point of using a referral code instead of you lowering the price?

About the situation, it's either they didn't find the time to answer you yet, or they are uncertain that there card is going to be fully working.

Anyway, Wagecan issuer is Visa, and I am pretty sure that if they were able to get all the documents to get approved( so they can make credit cards behalf visa), then there will be no problem.

Just keep in your mind that after you reach the limit of 2000$ you are no longer able to use the card anymore, so if you gave it to company as a recycling payment, then you will spend some time to change it.

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November 02, 2017, 07:03:16 PM
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What's the point of using a referral code instead of you lowering the price?

About the situation, it's either they didn't find the time to answer you yet, or they are uncertain that there card is going to be fully working.

Anyway, Wagecan issuer is Visa, and I am pretty sure that if they were able to get all the documents to get approved( so they can make credit cards behalf visa), then there will be no problem.

Just keep in your mind that after you reach the limit of 2000$ you are no longer able to use the card anymore, so if you gave it to company as a recycling payment, then you will spend some time to change it.


2000$ lifetime limit? Seems that they do not forward the clients documents for verification to their card provider. Look here per sample: https://help.wirexapp.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001824585-Wirex-unverified-account-limits
Maximum lifetime transactions value: 2000$
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