MSantori (OP)
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June 12, 2013, 09:19:57 PM Last edit: June 28, 2013, 05:00:38 PM by MSantori |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
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Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me. We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me. Maybe I can help! Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising
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ThickAsThieves
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June 12, 2013, 09:21:51 PM |
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You'd need to calculate it yourself, other than on Havelock, which lists it.
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burnside
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June 12, 2013, 09:44:46 PM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
On btc-tc it's on each individual security page's trade tab, right up at the top. Would love to know what you come up with.
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ThickAsThieves
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June 12, 2013, 09:47:34 PM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
On btc-tc it's on each individual security page's trade tab, right up at the top. Would love to know what you come up with. My bad!
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Rannasha
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June 12, 2013, 09:58:34 PM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
On btc-tc it's on each individual security page's trade tab, right up at the top. Would love to know what you come up with. Make sure to pass by the various exchanges to add up the numbers since some assets are listed on more than one exchange.
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MSantori (OP)
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June 12, 2013, 10:10:50 PM |
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Make sure to pass by the various exchanges to add up the numbers since some assets are listed on more than one exchange.
This is my primary concern - capturing all of the outstanding direct shares. There doesn't seem to be a location providing this data. Also, I don't want to capture pass-through shares. Their market cap is pretty small, almost by definition. Any US entity selling pass-through shares is obviously engaged in risky business, but a pass-through seller probably doesn't have any ability to comply with the securities laws anyway.
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Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me. We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me. Maybe I can help! Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising
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MikeMark
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Bitcoin: money chosen by the market.
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June 14, 2013, 05:53:11 PM |
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Make sure to pass by the various exchanges to add up the numbers since some assets are listed on more than one exchange.
This is my primary concern - capturing all of the outstanding direct shares. There doesn't seem to be a location providing this data. Also, I don't want to capture pass-through shares. Their market cap is pretty small, almost by definition. Any US entity selling pass-through shares is obviously engaged in risky business, but a pass-through seller probably doesn't have any ability to comply with the securities laws anyway. Marco, This might help you: http://www.asicminer.co/about.htmlEnjoy!
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The Path of the Just is as the Shining Light...
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prophetx
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he who has the gold makes the rules
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June 27, 2013, 07:09:53 AM |
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great, the next piece the US govt is going to come after... Luckily companies like asicminer are in china and out of reach, but US companies will be SOL since none of the crowdfunding legislation has been implemented (last I checked). So much for innovation...
Anyone running an exchange outside of the USA on a .com domain would be wise to move it elsewhere. Frankly I am surprised these aren't running on .onion domains ...
btw Marco if you need an assistant to gather all this data, I have the entire summer available.
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MSantori (OP)
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June 28, 2013, 03:42:03 AM |
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btw Marco if you need an assistant to gather all this data, I have the entire summer available.
Thanks for the offer. Are you in the legal field?
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Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me. We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me. Maybe I can help! Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising
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Diamondstarfall
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June 28, 2013, 03:53:45 AM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
This is quite interesting, hope you do find what youa re looking for and publish the results.
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Entropy-uc
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June 28, 2013, 03:54:34 AM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
Can you share the who and why of this project? I would note that some of the issuers are intentionally distorting their market cap by making it appear there are fewer shares than actually exist. Kslaughter of VMC/AMC likes to claim 40 million shares exist, but each share is 1 /100 Millionth of the company...
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MSantori (OP)
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June 28, 2013, 02:54:20 PM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
Can you share the who and why of this project? I can certainly share the "why" (if not the "who"): Issuers of securities in the United States are required to register their issuance with the SEC and satisfy Exchange Act reporting requirements, unless an exemption applies to the issuance - usually under SEC Regulation D, Rules 504-506. Registration under the securities act is a very expensive and time-consuming process, not something to be attempted by any of the small companies traded here - except maybe ASICMINER. Small businesses - whether corporations, partnerships, or "funds" - selling shares, limited partnership interests or "bonds" to raise money for their business typically do so under one of the exemptions. If an exemption applies to the issuance of securities, then full registration and reporting is not required. The company need only fill out and submit a few forms. Even after registration, though, the issuance will usually result in unregistered, restricted shares, meaning the share cannot be legally resold within a year of purchase. Though the reporting and registration requirements don't apply to issuers taking advantage of the Reg D exemptions, the antifraud provisions always apply. Accordingly, these issuers will use a disclosure document called a Private Placement Memorandum (PPM) to disclose risks associated with the securities. This document protects the issuer from lawsuits based on a failure to disclose those risks. As far as I can tell, most virtual currency "companies" and issuers of shares, like the ones traded on bitcoin exchanges and this forum have not done any of this. The reason is obvious: there's not enough money involved to pay lawyers to protect the issuer, not enough to pay lawyers to sue on behalf of any purchaser, and not enough to get the attention of the SEC. It's my goal to find out just how much money is involved, and get a rough sketch of what the threshold might be for enforcement. There is a vibrant bitcoin securities market largely because - as far as I can see - it has not met with any enforcement or explicit regulation at all. I am trying to develop a model for determining why that is and how long it might last.
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Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me. We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me. Maybe I can help! Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising
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prophetx
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he who has the gold makes the rules
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June 28, 2013, 04:58:00 PM |
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btw Marco if you need an assistant to gather all this data, I have the entire summer available.
Thanks for the offer. Are you in the legal field? No, I'm getting an MSc Industrial Mgmt so I am comfortable with numbers/accounting/finance. My legal experience (loose interpretation) is limited to a couple US constitutional law classes and working at Oracle's finance ops & contracts business unit, so likely not what you may be needing. But thought I would mention it just in case you need any grunt work done.
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Entropy-uc
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June 29, 2013, 04:01:09 AM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
Can you share the who and why of this project? I can certainly share the "why" (if not the "who"): Issuers of securities in the United States are required to register their issuance with the SEC and satisfy Exchange Act reporting requirements, unless an exemption applies to the issuance - usually under SEC Regulation D, Rules 504-506. Registration under the securities act is a very expensive and time-consuming process, not something to be attempted by any of the small companies traded here - except maybe ASICMINER. Small businesses - whether corporations, partnerships, or "funds" - selling shares, limited partnership interests or "bonds" to raise money for their business typically do so under one of the exemptions. If an exemption applies to the issuance of securities, then full registration and reporting is not required. The company need only fill out and submit a few forms. Even after registration, though, the issuance will usually result in unregistered, restricted shares, meaning the share cannot be legally resold within a year of purchase. Though the reporting and registration requirements don't apply to issuers taking advantage of the Reg D exemptions, the antifraud provisions always apply. Accordingly, these issuers will use a disclosure document called a Private Placement Memorandum (PPM) to disclose risks associated with the securities. This document protects the issuer from lawsuits based on a failure to disclose those risks. As far as I can tell, most virtual currency "companies" and issuers of shares, like the ones traded on bitcoin exchanges and this forum have not done any of this. The reason is obvious: there's not enough money involved to pay lawyers to protect the issuer, not enough to pay lawyers to sue on behalf of any purchaser, and not enough to get the attention of the SEC. It's my goal to find out just how much money is involved, and get a rough sketch of what the threshold might be for enforcement. There is a vibrant bitcoin securities market largely because - as far as I can see - it has not met with any enforcement or explicit regulation at all. I am trying to develop a model for determining why that is and how long it might last. I have seen enforcement actions for ~$1M, although not in a while (who reads newspapers anymore?). Many issuers have exceeded that level in market cap, if not in actual cash raised. I think you would find that GigaVPS is very concerned about potential, or even pending enforcement action against him. Why, I couldn't say, but his behavior screams that he believes he is a target. In practice I think the typical SEC agent is going to find untangling the bitcoin story too much like work.
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Kyune
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June 29, 2013, 04:30:16 AM |
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In practice I think the typical SEC agent is going to find untangling the bitcoin story too much like work.
At least outside of Washington DC, I've found the rank-and-file SEC staff attorneys to be pretty sharp and motivated, but they tend to get hamstrung by upper management and political appointees higher in the foodchain.
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BTC: 1K4VpdQXQhgmTmq68rbWhybvoRcyNHKyVP
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TheSwede75
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June 29, 2013, 04:35:42 AM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
On btc-tc it's on each individual security page's trade tab, right up at the top. Would love to know what you come up with. Though it must be said that double listed securities only list the total of btct.co listed shares as total market cap. For example, ASICMINER has a far greater share total then the listed amount on btct.co
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TheSwede75
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June 29, 2013, 04:39:03 AM |
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I'm in the middle of a legal research project that involves assessing risk of enforcement against the businesses selling unregistered, restricted securities on this board and stock exchanges like Bitfunder, BTC-TC, etc.
Any idea where can I find a breakdown of each securities' market cap, or at least a reliable list of the total shares outstanding?
Thanks in advance.
Can you share the who and why of this project? I would note that some of the issuers are intentionally distorting their market cap by making it appear there are fewer shares than actually exist. Kslaughter of VMC/AMC likes to claim 40 million shares exist, but each share is 1 /100 Millionth of the company... They are simply using the "listed"/available and total shares as a 'loophole' to inflate share equity. Very commons among securities on every single BTC security trading exchange. The market value only takes into account the amount of shares that are available among shareholders, not total shares 'emitted', as by contract. ASICMINER is another example.
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statdude
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June 30, 2013, 07:59:26 PM |
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You're welcome TAT.ASICMINER ASICMiner Bitfunder $170,714,827 ASICM ASICMiner Havelock $164,818,520 G.ASICMINER-PT ASICMiner Bitfunder $162,443,960 ASICMINER-PT ASICMiner BTCT $161,020,039 TAT.ASICMINER ASICMiner BTCT $157,786,020 S.MPOE-PT MPOE BTCT $89,967,500 S.MPOE MPOE MPEX $80,345,585 S.MPOE-PTʡ MPOE LTC $75,075,000 G.MPOE MPOE Bitfunder $67,901,293 S.DICE Satoshi Dice MPEX $23,037,597 S.DICE-PT Satoshi Dice LTC $22,167,600 S.DICE-PT Satoshi Dice BTCT $21,631,000 GSDPT Satoshi Dice BTCT $21,340,000 G.SDICE Satoshi Dice Bitfunder $19,521,573 100th 100TH-mine Pico $18,764,131 SDICE Satoshi Dice Havelock $16,781,097 AMC AMC Bitfunder $12,028,000 proph Proteon Pharmaceuticals S. A. Pico $11,468,515 G.BBET Bitbet Bitfunder $8,401,817 S.BBET-PT Bitbet LTC $7,630,350 S.BBET Bitbet MPEX $7,032,549 BTC-TRADING-PT BTCT BTCT $6,965,085 LTC-GLOBAL BTCT LTC $6,758,115 VTX VirtEx Havelock $4,850,010 pico PicoStocks Inc. Pico $4,374,700 CRYPTO-TRADE Crypto-trade.com BTCT $1,932,725 CRYPTO-TRADE Crypto-trade.com LTC $1,822,275 S.MG MG MPEX $1,261,485 HIM Havelock Mining Havelock $1,202,800 btcQuick btcQuick Bitfunder $559,060 CIPHERMINEʡ Ciphermine LTC $551,460 COGNITIVE COGNITIVE BTCT $414,960 DMC Bitfunder $409,505 BTCINVEST Bitfunder $262,094 TABITA LTC $211,575 RSM RSM BTCT $152,767 Addiction KNC Bitfunder $123,344 BITVPS BITVPS BTCT $113,878 BitPride BitPride Bitfunder $93,298 KCIM Korb Mining Havelock $87,970 Win.Avalon Batch 3 Bitfunder $80,481 OPCU LTC $66,230 GPT.YABMC Bitfunder $61,433 COGNITIVE-PT LTC $49,140 TAT.VIRTUALMINE $43,021 Cado.AvalonB3 Batch 3 Bitfunder $39,906 LTC-MINING BTCT $29,408 ASIC.COOP Bitfunder $23,199 Bit-Inc Bitfunder $22,342 JAH Bitfunder $17,945 GPT.ESecBTC Bitfunder $15,435 LTC-CHARTS LTC-CHARTS LTC $11,821 LTC-GAMING LTC $2,457 ZigGap Bitfunder $2,118
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MSantori (OP)
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July 01, 2013, 12:54:37 AM |
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You're welcome TAT.ASICMINER ASICMiner Bitfunder $170,714,827 ASICM ASICMiner Havelock $164,818,520 G.ASICMINER-PT ASICMiner Bitfunder $162,443,960 ASICMINER-PT ASICMiner BTCT $161,020,039 TAT.ASICMINER ASICMiner BTCT $157,786,020 S.MPOE-PT MPOE BTCT $89,967,500 S.MPOE MPOE MPEX $80,345,585 S.MPOE-PTʡ MPOE LTC $75,075,000 G.MPOE MPOE Bitfunder $67,901,293 S.DICE Satoshi Dice MPEX $23,037,597 S.DICE-PT Satoshi Dice LTC $22,167,600 S.DICE-PT Satoshi Dice BTCT $21,631,000 GSDPT Satoshi Dice BTCT $21,340,000 G.SDICE Satoshi Dice Bitfunder $19,521,573 100th 100TH-mine Pico $18,764,131 SDICE Satoshi Dice Havelock $16,781,097 AMC AMC Bitfunder $12,028,000 proph Proteon Pharmaceuticals S. A. Pico $11,468,515 G.BBET Bitbet Bitfunder $8,401,817 S.BBET-PT Bitbet LTC $7,630,350 S.BBET Bitbet MPEX $7,032,549 BTC-TRADING-PT BTCT BTCT $6,965,085 LTC-GLOBAL BTCT LTC $6,758,115 VTX VirtEx Havelock $4,850,010 pico PicoStocks Inc. Pico $4,374,700 CRYPTO-TRADE Crypto-trade.com BTCT $1,932,725 CRYPTO-TRADE Crypto-trade.com LTC $1,822,275 S.MG MG MPEX $1,261,485 HIM Havelock Mining Havelock $1,202,800 btcQuick btcQuick Bitfunder $559,060 CIPHERMINEʡ Ciphermine LTC $551,460 COGNITIVE COGNITIVE BTCT $414,960 DMC Bitfunder $409,505 BTCINVEST Bitfunder $262,094 TABITA LTC $211,575 RSM RSM BTCT $152,767 Addiction KNC Bitfunder $123,344 BITVPS BITVPS BTCT $113,878 BitPride BitPride Bitfunder $93,298 KCIM Korb Mining Havelock $87,970 Win.Avalon Batch 3 Bitfunder $80,481 OPCU LTC $66,230 GPT.YABMC Bitfunder $61,433 COGNITIVE-PT LTC $49,140 TAT.VIRTUALMINE $43,021 Cado.AvalonB3 Batch 3 Bitfunder $39,906 LTC-MINING BTCT $29,408 ASIC.COOP Bitfunder $23,199 Bit-Inc Bitfunder $22,342 JAH Bitfunder $17,945 GPT.ESecBTC Bitfunder $15,435 LTC-CHARTS LTC-CHARTS LTC $11,821 LTC-GAMING LTC $2,457 ZigGap Bitfunder $2,118
How did you compile this info?
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Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me. We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me. Maybe I can help! Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising
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🏰 TradeFortress 🏰
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July 01, 2013, 12:56:46 AM |
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From looking at the info from all the exchanges?
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