Bitcoin Price Manipulation Video

[Its About Sharing]

I'm really curious what some of you more seasoned traders have to say about this. I discovered this twitter feed from Sir Bits-A-Lot.

https://twitter.com/SirBitsALot  Great tweets and quite often. I recommend you quickly read some of his comments. Quite a few screen shots proving his points as well.

He has some great commentary on price manipulation and a video as well. Really really interesting. He is a bull long term but mid to short term (6-12 months) he is a bear.

Video linked here: http://sirbitsalot.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/bitcoin-price-manipulation/

IAS

[lucas.sev]

But, but, we are going to 180? 

[notme]

I'm really curious what some of you more seasoned traders have to say about this. I discovered this twitter feed from Sir Bits-A-Lot.

https://twitter.com/SirBitsALot  Great tweets and quite often. I recommend you quickly read some of his comments. Quite a few screen shots proving his points as well.

He has some great commentary on price manipulation and a video as well. Really really interesting. He is a bull long term but mid to short term (6-12 months) he is a bear.

Video linked here: http://sirbitsalot.wordpress.com/2013/06/11/bitcoin-price-manipulation/

IAS

Added space for clickability.

[adamstgBit]

price moved!

their can be no other explanation then manipulation!

[adamstgBit]

But, but, we are going to 180? 

well ya, after manipulating the price down, what else is their to do but manipulate it back up!

[krudkeeper]

But, but, we are going to 180? 

well ya, after manipulating the price down, what else is their to do but manipulate it back up!

I wish it would manipulate up to $500.00!!!

[adamstgBit]

But, but, we are going to 180? 

well ya, after manipulating the price down, what else is their to do but manipulate it back up!

I wish it would manipulate up to $500.00!!!

that will happen naturally 

[lucas.sev]

price moved!

their can be no other explanation then manipulation!

Did you watch the video at all?

[4mherewego]

Will be fun when someone puts that 10k BTC order so that their fake walls get filled.

[lucas.sev]

Will be fun when someone puts that 10k BTC order so that their fake walls get filled.

Wall will most likely disappear as soon as some percentage is nibbled off it.

[TheEmperor]

price moved!

their can be no other explanation then manipulation!

Did you watch the video at all?

I did, and although there is a large dump and price movement I wouldn't personally consider it enough to be counted as manipulation. It's just a large dump.

From the Viedo:- "big sell-down + supporting fake asks-walls to prevent price going up again"

Price at dump: $127
Price at end of video: $121
Lowest price in video: $117

Doesn't even lose 10% of price over 11 hours and comes back to within $6 by the end. I'd hardly say that was a successful manipulation to prevent the price rising again, although on the longer time chart the price is driven down, that however can no way be directly attributed to the dumper as proven because price is rising back up after his dump. Also, I have an issue with fake asks-walls. I believe he's referring to the 0 volume asks. How can these be counted in the order book if the volume you require is 0, you can't ask to buy/sell nothing at (x) price? 

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/mtgox/USD

June the 2nd is where his video is from.

Look at June the 9th, wipes 20%(roughly) of the value then rises back to the pre dump level within 24hrs. Is this considered manipulation?

I'm sorry chaps but IMHO this is normal market play, only difference is in the Bitcoin market, there is a lot less volume and a lot less players and thus an increase in volatility and ability to move the market. Your telling me that if a large hedge fund/bank dumped a HUGE volume of a financial instrument, relative to market size, that this wouldn't happen on that market? It's how the markets work and its how the big boys make there money. Well, that and insider trading 

[naphto]

But, but, we are going to 180? 

lol

[ronaldlee0917]

Would be fun when two manipulators are acting in opposite directions.

[weaknesswaran]

Will be fun when someone puts that 10k BTC order so that their fake walls get filled.

When you place a market order big enough it will get eaten at once and can´t be pulled anymore i guess.

[lucas.sev]

Will be fun when someone puts that 10k BTC order so that their fake walls get filled.

When you place a market order big enough it will get eaten at once and can´t be pulled anymore i guess.

There might be algos that cancel the wall once some % of it gets fulfilled.

[Its About Sharing]

@TheEmperor

I don't really think you got the point of the video. You didn't mention the bid walls that were progressively moved up, sort of channeling the price action and directing it in a certain direction. With the video going faster, you could clearly see the bid walls being moved up. Now, it doesn't always work, but if you are looking to buy and someone has a bid wall and you want some, you just put your bid above theirs. Enough of this walks the price up on lower volume.

IAS

[Its About Sharing]

You might be interested in watching bitcoin.de, the manipulation happens much more slowly there and is slightly different because the walls can by bypassed. There's a wall being pushed downwards atm, usually dumps come on gox not long after this starts happening. Its possible to see the manipulators bank details on bitcoin.de

Funny, I thought of that after I posted. Bitcoin.de is interesting in that they don't have a bank. So, if someone is selling or buying, your transaction is going direct through them. You see the order book as a bunch of buy and sells that you can actually buy and sell on, jumping over orders if your wish. It is interesting in that a bid wall can be sold DIRECTLY into if you want.

Not to say that every wall is manipulative, but the Bitcoin.de model is actually where we might see decentralized exchanges going, it would just involve a person acting as an escrow (which Bitcoin.de does in a sense.) It is a relatively good method, but due to delays you can't jump in and out easily. You also can buy and if the price drops just not send the money (though you have 12 hours to mark it as sent - which I think is waaaay too much.) The penalty is that (now anyway) they can ban you. Before, and I got burned by this, I just gave the guy a bad rating. (And at that time it was a 24 hour window to mark as paid).

Regarding the video, I think the movement of the bid walls up, without every buying!, is clearly just trying to move the price, especially when it is followed by a dump at the top.

IAS

[TheEmperor]

@TheEmperor

I don't really think you got the point of the video. You didn't mention the bid walls that were progressively moved up, sort of channeling the price action and directing it in a certain direction. With the video going faster, you could clearly see the bid walls being moved up. Now, it doesn't always work, but if you are looking to buy and someone has a bid wall and you want some, you just put your bid above theirs. Enough of this walks the price up on lower volume.

IAS

I clearly misinterpreted what was being displayed in the video. Thank you for pointing this out and clarifying clearly and concisely for me.

[Its About Sharing]

@TheEmperor

I don't really think you got the point of the video. You didn't mention the bid walls that were progressively moved up, sort of channeling the price action and directing it in a certain direction. With the video going faster, you could clearly see the bid walls being moved up. Now, it doesn't always work, but if you are looking to buy and someone has a bid wall and you want some, you just put your bid above theirs. Enough of this walks the price up on lower volume.

IAS

I clearly misinterpreted what was being displayed in the video. Thank you for pointing this out and clarifying clearly and concisely for me.

It's ok, I even typed things a bit slower than normal.

[TheEmperor]

It's ok, I even typed things a bit slower than normal.
[/quote]

Such a gentleman